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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I like to imagine Kathy and Betty as the Batwoman and Bat-Girl of Earth 2.

    I would have Bette be the Robin fan-girl who became Flamebird of Earth 1.

    Keeps everything neat in my mind.
    i don't really like this concept

    bette was betty and she was batgirl
    "Everything doesn't have to be about fear. There's room in our line of work for hope, too"- Stephanie Brown, Batgirl Vol 3 #5

    "Quit? Like hell I will"- Bette Kane, Beast Boy #3

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukiakari1203 View Post
    i don't really like this concept

    bette was betty and she was batgirl
    Earth 2 Kathy and Betty was someone's attempt at making sense of it all, but 2 post COIE events are set in 'this' continuity, that gives pause.

    In Killing Joke, Batman sees the photo of the old Batfamily, which included Betty as Bat-Girl.

    2) Morrison also places her, or someone who is a lot like her, somewhere in his whole revisionist sort of thing of Batman's older, *Silver-Age* continuity.

    Most would or should realize that Betty Kane arrived nearly at the demarcation between Silver and Golden Age that became Earth 1 and 2.
    Those stories were in the late '50s but Betty arrives just after, so she is clearly of the one, and not the other.
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  3. #18
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    First appearance:



  4. #19
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    ‘Originally’ and up until the Crisis on Infinite Earths, both Kathy and Betty were established as having existed on Earth-One. This was reaffirmed for Kathy in the Batman Family run and for Betty in the pages of Teen Titans.

    Going on the dates, as indicated above, Kathy’s first appearance took place right at the demarcation between the Golden and Silver Age continuity ‘split’ but Betty (who first debuted a few years later) was definitely a Silver Age creation.

    In the early 1980’s, on the back of the success of the JSA revival and the popularity of characters like Helena Wayne, DC were keen to market Earth-Two. An Earth-Two Batwoman was created and said to have been adventuring on Earth-Two, much in the same way as she had been on Earth-One. A doppelganger. This also allowed DC to market the character and trademark despite her unfortunate and unnecessary demise on Earth-One.

    It was never established that there had been an Earth-Two Bat-Girl (Betty Kane) and if one had been created, she would have been a doppelganger to the Earth-One Betty and NOT the original. CRISIS hit shortly thereafter and the potential for an Earth-Two doppelganger for Betty never materialised.

    Post-Crisis, the general consensus (despite that panel in The Killing Joke) was that neither Batwoman not Bat-Girl had existed.

    An issue of Suicide Squad eased the blow somewhat, in establishing that circus owner Kathy Kane, acquaintance to Batman HAD existed and HAD met her unfortunate end in a tussle between the Batman, The Bronze Tiger and The League of Assassins but the inference was that she had never adventured as Batwoman.

    Betty was reimagined as ‘Bette/Flamebird’ by George Perez, to fill the gap in the Titans West history which had been blasted by CRISIS.

    It was all rather neat, if not piecemeal until Infinite Crisis. When Alexander Luthor’s ‘interim’ pre-Crisis multiverse is resurrected the JSA and all surviving pre-Crisis Earth-Two residents are transported there. Bette is inexplicably transported with them. This led some fans to speculate that Jiminez was ‘stating’ that the pre-Crisis Earth-Two doppelganger of Betty (Bat-Girl) Kane had been Bette (Flamebird) Kane and that it was she, not her Earth-One counterpart who had survived the Crisis on Earth-Sigma.

    Others thought it to be an ‘error’ on account that there is a general misconception that both Batwoman and Bat-Girl originally belonged to the Golden Age continuity, which they did not.

  5. #20
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaygon View Post
    . . . In the early 1980’s, on the back of the success of the JSA revival and the popularity of characters like Helena Wayne, DC were keen to market Earth-Two. An Earth-Two Batwoman was created and said to have been adventuring on Earth-Two, much in the same way as she had been on Earth-One. A doppelganger. This also allowed DC to market the character and trademark despite her unfortunate and unnecessary demise on Earth-One . . .
    Do you have a source for all of this information?

    In the 1980s, it seemed like DC did everything they could to wipe out the JSA.

    8f3711e4d3e3b05b3f4bb7caa55e204a_l.jpg

  6. #21
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    ‘Early 1980’s’.

    You had long-running titles like All Star Squadron and Infinity Inc and appearances of big Earth-Two legacy characters such as Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in Anniversary issues such as Wonder Woman 300, Brave and the Bold 200 (+ 182, 184, 197), Superman Family, Justice League (later JSA + JLA team-ups), America vs the JSA etc. Huntress also had a long running back-up series in Wonder Woman.

    What you are referring to above did indeed take place, but it is very much in the post-Crisis DC Comics of 1986 onwards.
    Last edited by jaygon; 01-01-2021 at 03:37 PM.

  7. #22
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaygon View Post
    ‘Early 1980’s’.

    You had long-running titles like All Star Squadron . . .
    All-Star Squadron was not a "Justice Society of America" book.
    It featured almost ALL of the Golden Age heroes from DC (and Quality Comics) of that early 1940s era, including members of the JSA. But more of the focus on that series was on non-JSA members like Liberty Belle, Johnny Quick, Robotman, the newly-created female Firebrand, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaygon View Post
    . . . and Infinity Inc . . .
    a team originally composed of sons and daughters of the JSA, but isn't that more like an Earth-2 version of Teen Titans?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaygon View Post
    . . . and appearances of big Earth-Two legacy characters such as Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in Anniversary issues such as Wonder Woman 300, Brave and the Bold 200 (+ 182, 184, 197), Superman Family, . . .
    which were more use of the Big Three from an earlier time, not necessarily an indication that the Justice Society of America had become the hottest thing since sliced bread

    Quote Originally Posted by jaygon View Post
    . . . Justice League (later JSA + JLA team-ups), . . .
    you do realize the annual meetings of the JLA and JSA dated back to 1963?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaygon View Post
    America vs the JSA etc. Huntress also had a long running back-up series in Wonder Woman.
    America vs. the Justice Society of America was a four-issue series that basically was a retelling of the Golden Age adventures of the JSA. And that series, along with All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc. were all Roy Thomas-written books. If he hadn't been behind them, who knows if they'd even have existed in the first place?

    The JSA did appear in the bi-monthly All-Star Comics from late-1975 until mid-1978, and then was one of several features in the $1.00-sized, bi-monthly Adventure Comics from late-1978 until about a year later.

    I really enjoyed that run of the JSA.

    However, as fan who was buying comic books at that time, it never seemed to me the JSA had achieved as much "success" as you seem to be claiming.

    (I'm also unsure of whether you were reading too much into two appearances of an Earth-2 version of Batwoman in The Brave and the Bold, both of which were written by Alan Brennert.)

  8. #23
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    All-Star Squadron was not a "Justice Society of America" book.
    It featured almost ALL of the Golden Age heroes from DC (and Quality Comics) of that early 1940s era, including members of the JSA. But more of the focus on that series was on non-JSA members like Liberty Belle, Johnny Quick, Robotman, the newly-created female Firebrand, etc.

    a team originally composed of sons and daughters of the JSA, but isn't that more like an Earth-2 version of Teen Titans?

    which were more use of the Big Three from an earlier time, not necessarily an indication that the Justice Society of America had become the hottest thing since sliced bread

    My original comment was that DC was promoting Earth-Two, not the Justice Society of America specifically and on the back of the success of the JSA revival (meaning the All-Star Comics and Adventure Comics from the mid to late 1970’s)

    you do realize the annual meetings of the JLA and JSA dated back to 1963?

    Indeed. I did mention ‘later’ appearances. Again, I’m more referring to the concept of the Earth-Two world than a Justice Society comic proper.

    [/B] America vs. the Justice Society of America[/B] was a four-issue series that basically was a retelling of the Golden Age adventures of the JSA. And that series, along with All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc. were all Roy Thomas-written books. If he hadn't been behind them, who knows if they'd even have existed in the first place?

    But those comics did exist and did promote the concept of Earth-Two far more than had been done in the late 1970's

    The JSA did appear in the bi-monthly All-Star Comics from late-1975 until mid-1978, and then was one of several features in the $1.00-sized, bi-monthly Adventure Comics from late-1978 until about a year later.

    I really enjoyed that run of the JSA.

    However, as fan who was buying comic books at that time, it never seemed to me the JSA had achieved as much "success" as you seem to be claiming.

    Again, the ‘success’ I was referring to is that short revival of the 1970s, the result of which sees the concept of Earth-Two granted more exposure in the early 1980’s.

    I'm also unsure of whether you were reading too much into two appearances of an Earth-2 version of Batwoman in The Brave and the Bold, both of which were written by Alan Brennert.

    Those two comics establish the Earth-Two Kathy (Batwoman) Kane. The point of my post was to support the argument that the original Batwoman had belonged to the Earth-One continuity and was not a Golden Age character.
    Last edited by jaygon; 01-02-2021 at 05:14 AM.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    These recent comments are fascinating, but it seems the actual canon answer is elusive.
    ~ Oberon ~
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    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

  10. #25
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    this is a fascinating thread!
    "Everything doesn't have to be about fear. There's room in our line of work for hope, too"- Stephanie Brown, Batgirl Vol 3 #5

    "Quit? Like hell I will"- Bette Kane, Beast Boy #3

  11. #26
    Incredible Member signalman112's Avatar
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    The Cat-Man trilogy right before the New Look era begins, DETECTIVE COMICS #311, 318, and 325 are fun stories with Batwoman having a role in part 2.

    DetectiveComics318.jpg

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by signalman112 View Post
    The Cat-Man trilogy right before the New Look era begins, DETECTIVE COMICS #311, 318, and 325 are fun stories with Batwoman having a role in part 2.

    DetectiveComics318.jpg
    I really like that Cat-Woman costume.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by signalman112 View Post
    The Cat-Man trilogy right before the New Look era begins, DETECTIVE COMICS #311, 318, and 325 are fun stories with Batwoman having a role in part 2.

    DetectiveComics318.jpg
    classic silver age kathy is really nice
    "Everything doesn't have to be about fear. There's room in our line of work for hope, too"- Stephanie Brown, Batgirl Vol 3 #5

    "Quit? Like hell I will"- Bette Kane, Beast Boy #3

  14. #29
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukiakari1203 View Post
    classic silver age kathy is really nice
    I enjoyed her Bronze Age appearances, too*.




    (* Except for the issue of Detective Comics where they killed her off . . . )

  15. #30
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    poor kathy got it rough

    that issue is nice though
    "Everything doesn't have to be about fear. There's room in our line of work for hope, too"- Stephanie Brown, Batgirl Vol 3 #5

    "Quit? Like hell I will"- Bette Kane, Beast Boy #3

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