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  1. #46
    Superior Homo Supernature's Avatar
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    I think, aside from the fact that the X-Men are too busy infighting, the reason why the mutant allegory seems to have become blurrier over the years, is because the writers who did use this part of the X-Mythos tried to make it an all-encompassing metaphor for every kind of oppression that exists (race, gender, sexual orientation, etc...) which in return made it sound more hollow. Believe / like it or not, not every type of real life struggle fits the 'mutant as an oppressed group' metaphor.

    There is also the fact that plenty of the most important mutants are cishet caucasian people who have never known poverty and live sheltered in opulence in a beautiful mansion, or go out shopping with wads of cash every once in a while. If you know anything about majority/minority power dynamics and the way race, sexual orientation, gender identity and class are related in most occidental countries, you know this isn't what oppression looks like (And yes, I know that the franchise is also truck-full of real life minorities but very few of them are nearly as high in terms of importance).

    This is why I personally do not condemn the writers who apparently don't "get it". For instance, I get why X-Fans might be upset with the way Remender has handled the whole thing in Uncanny Avengers, but I can't blame him for seemingly missing the point. Writers who came before him kept appropriating real life minority struggles, and wash them of their significance and impact by making the victims of the acts the majority. I also do not blame writers who decide to ignore this part of the mythos that's becoming more and more convoluted and just use the mutants as a conduit to tell cool stories.
    Last edited by Supernature; 05-04-2014 at 07:58 PM.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Their message was that other people are just like us. We're all Alexes.
    alex represents everything i hate. so please don't call us alexes.

  3. #48
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    There is no metaphor any more. The X-Men don't represent anything because the people in charge of story direction don't have much interest in that aspect of the franchise's history.

    X-Men is basically about a group of generic, unorganized would-be superheroes that never get around to doing heroic things because they are too busy fighting each other or fighting the Avengers. And Marvel truly thinks they are more compelling this way.
    Sadly proving true.

    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    Apart from the bit where the quote ignores the very real phenomenon over the centuries of some people of African-American descent 'passing' as white folks, in the context of this discussion it only has one implication - another point in favor of anti-mutant prejudice being more analogous to homophobia than to racism. After all, the majority of Marvel mutants don't look funny and can always choose to 'pass' by not using their powers, with only a small number having visible or uncontrollable mutations. In that way, this fictional group's struggle is more analogous to that for gay rights than that against racism.
    Agree.

    The way I see it, Marvel has steadily limited itself over the years, culling the associations.

    Teams like ANXM are almost exclusively a metaphor for gay or religious rights. It didn't take off in the 60's because neither were espeically on the societal radar back then to any degree. These are groups of minorities that can choose to hide what they are, because they look just like everyone else. -- LGBT, Muslim/Jewish, etc

    Characters like Nightcrawler (Anole, Rockslide, etc -- any physically obvious mutant) are a metaphor for race or physical abnormalities. This minority group is born the way they are and cannot choose to hide it nor minimize its impact on their lives. -- Skin color, cleft lip, abnormal limbs, etc (Cockrum based Nightcrawler's hands on a boy he went to school with who had Ectrodactyly, for example)

    Characters like Rogue are a stand in, imo, for minorities based on severe physical handicap, disorder or disease (at least before she gained control of her power). It may not always be obvious in appearance with this group, but the effects persist in impacting their lives hugely in a challenging manner. -- HIV, Asperger's, Bi-Polar, etc

    The more variety and mix up that's used in rosters, the more broadly readers can relate.
    Last edited by Sundowhn; 05-05-2014 at 03:29 AM.

  4. #49
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    alex represents everything i hate. so please don't call us alexes.
    Fair point. I certainly don't wanted to be called "AcesX1X".

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    To the OP: I grew up with the X-men being analogous to minorities. My first comic was a Generaton X. I think it works better that way. But the gay analogy is relevant now since its a hot social issue. But I feel like its following a trend, civil rights shouldn't be en vogue or have to take a back seat to any other civil rights issue.

  6. #51

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    This is not an unreasonable question to ask. But I think the answer involves a certain context. When X-men began, it was at the very beginning of the civil rights movement when race issues dominated the public concern. Later on, homosexuality became a greater issue. And part of what makes the X-men so compelling is that it works with both. It was set up not just to involve racial issues. It could apply to any kind of minority. It could be race, ethnic group, religious affiliation, etc. It all works the same way. Race is only part of the equation when it comes to the message of X-men. That's why it's still relevant after over 50 years. And so long as we have minority issues (and we always will to some extent), the X-men will continue to be relevant.
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  7. #52
    X-Fan & Marvel Collector
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Egg View Post
    There is no metaphor any more. The X-Men don't represent anything because the people in charge of story direction don't have much interest in that aspect of the franchise's history.

    X-Men is basically about a group of generic, unorganized would-be superheroes that never get around to doing heroic things because they are too busy fighting each other or fighting the Avengers. And Marvel truly thinks they are more compelling this way.
    This is so sad, but so true. Anytime a writer begins working with the (or a) metaphor again they are quickly wrapped up and shuttled off to make way for more of this more bland interpretation.
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  8. #53
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomppa View Post
    X-Men as mutants were originally created by Stan Lee so that he could get off easier and not have to think of separate origins to characters if he just had the characters be born with their powers but then he added the discrimination angle and since this was in the 60's his influences more than likely were the civil rights movement which was mostly about gettign equal rights to african americans who faced discrimination. But it can apply to any and all minorities really and that's how it's been used over its decades long history. Obviously things have gotten better when it comes to racism which has been eliminated for the most part from western world or at least it is considerably lessened, not completely gone but lessened. Nowadays gay rights are probably a bigger issue in western cultures than racism so it's only natural that writers would end up leaning that way more often now. However mutants are unlike any real world minority and yet they are like any real world minority so they can and do represent any and all minorities that struggle for their rights and to be accepted. It can represent struggles of ethnic minorities, women, LGBT people or anyone who feels like an outsider really, that's why it works and is successful. It's all inclusive.


    But this is a big problem currently:
    Hmm, no I don't think so.
    Extremist movements are gaining weight in several countries of Europe - mine included.
    And I don't know for the other ones, but in my country, xenophobia/pointing-and-blaming of foreigners is par for the course - even within more traditional parties.
    Racism is very much alive, to say it has been mostly eliminated from western world is an excessive exaggeration imo.

    Now, on-topic...Well Baron of Faltline pretty much nailed it I think.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Hmm, no I don't think so.
    Extremist movements are gaining weight in several countries of Europe - mine included.
    And I don't know for the other ones, but in my country, xenophobia/pointing-and-blaming of foreigners is par for the course - even within more traditional parties.
    Racism is very much alive, to say it has been mostly eliminated from western world is an excessive exaggeration imo.

    Now, on-topic...Well Baron of Faltline pretty much nailed it I think.
    This is true where I live, as well. Foreigners are especially a prime target.

  10. #55
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    People like foreigners who move in ready to adapt. And there are many of those. It's the ones who come to a country as invaders that are disliked. That's not discrimination. They are being judged on their actions. It took decades in many countries to get rid of the catholic church. Citizens would be fools to allow more religious nutters in. Borders exist for a reason. And most war thorn countries stand as testimonial that religion does not work.
    Last edited by DDD; 05-05-2014 at 05:02 AM.

  11. #56

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    The X-Men have always been about outsiders and the discriminated, the metaphor doesn't really need to change to include gays. It always included them.
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  12. #57
    Spectacular Member Chris24601's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    It took decades in many countries to get rid of the catholic church. Citizens would be fools to allow more religious nutters in. Borders exist for a reason. And most war thorn countries stand as testimonial that religion does not work.
    And THIS is why the X-Men work as a personal metaphor for me.

    Discrimination against Christians is at an all time high in the world today. Thousands are murdered every year simply because of their beliefs. While not as severe where I live, we still are verbally attacked and discriminated against if we try to live by our faith instead of by secular values.

    The metaphor can apply in many ways and that's how it applies for me.

  13. #58

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    NVM. Seriously not worth it.

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  14. #59
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    People like foreigners who move in ready to adapt. And there are many of those. It's the ones who come to a country as invaders that are disliked. That's not discrimination. They are being judged on their actions. It took decades in many countries to get rid of the catholic church. Citizens would be fools to allow more religious nutters in. Borders exist for a reason. And most war thorn countries stand as testimonial that religion does not work.
    Okay, I have no idea what are supposed to be "foreigners who move in ready to adapt" and "the ones who come to a country as invaders" ?
    Like, really.
    To me, foreigners who come in France do it to try and start a new life, for them, their families... They are not trying to invade, they are trying to save themselves.
    Now, maybe you really meant that they were perceived as invaders ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    This is true where I live, as well. Foreigners are especially a prime target.
    That's terrible...I feel like our societies are currently on a slippery slope.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris24601 View Post
    Discrimination against Christians is at an all time high in the world today. Thousands are murdered every year simply because of their beliefs.
    "thousands?" what is your source.

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