Which is your preferred version of Killer Croc?

[Zaresh]

The gangster Croc of Gerry Conway's run was god-tier and a great addition to Batman's rogue gallery. Modern version who eats children is a joke.

Agreed. I find him more interesting that way, too.

[PurpleGlovez]

I agree. And Conway's urban smart mature formidable gangster version left plenty of room to develop the character while keeping him close to this feared gangster version, but then the Crisis happened and a lot of weaker ideas, versions of Croc happened instead.

Yeah, but to their credit, the Bat-team of the 90s did mostly okay by the character. It wasn't really until Hush that all this started. And not just characterization, there's something about Killer Croc's original design that is just so classically comic book and identifiable, paired with the whole gangster motif. Making him generic lizard monster was lame. To be fair, he's still had some decent showings in recent years, I think in Gotham Academy and Batman Eternal.

Is that a Hush reference?

In Battle for the Cowl, Damian is cruising with some girl and Oracle ejects her from the Batmobile. Later, Croc can be seen spitting her shoe out. In the New 52's Batman/Superman Annual #2, Batman also refers to him as a child-eater.

[Mutant God]

Aggressively territorial sewer gator that's actually just a guy with a skin condition, leader of the forgotten and occasional ally of anyone not endangering his people or pissing him off.
Intelligence level may vary.
Cannibalism only on a really bad day, like, really early on when he was still convinced he's an actual sewer gator. No longer eat human but uses the reputation to scare people away.

I prefer the Arkhamverse's version of Croc: a man regressing into his animalistic tendencies (literally). The whole "ex-convict with a new lease on life" and "misunderstood monster" thing DC was doing with him is too cliché and a disservice to the character, in my opinion. The mobster Croc thing made about as much sense as Boss Darkseid.

You know the one that was in the Suicide Squad movie

Around these three for me

[Tzigone]

In Battle for the Cowl, Damian is cruising with some girl and Oracle ejects her from the Batmobile. Later, Croc can be seen spitting her shoe out. In the New 52's Batman/Superman Annual #2, Batman also refers to him as a child-eater.

Eww. And with the added "bonus" of making Oracle a contributing factor a child's murder.

Also - he has hands and doesn't even strip the clothes off his food?

[Comics N' Toons]

The gangster Croc of Gerry Conway's run was the only version I ever liked. MY FAV. VERSION goes to BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES!

[JBatmanFan05]

Yeah, but to their credit, the Bat-team of the 90s did mostly okay by the character. It wasn't really until Hush that all this started. And not just characterization, there's something about Killer Croc's original design that is just so classically comic book and identifiable, paired with the whole gangster motif. Making him generic lizard monster was lame. To be fair, he's still had some decent showings in recent years, I think in Gotham Academy and Batman Eternal.

You know, years ago, I might have agreed with you more on this point. I'm a big Post-Crisis guy too. But, in honest retrospect, Rick Veitch in Swamp Thing #66 (1987) started to seemingly dumb Croc down. He "more or less regressed to a reptile state and has trouble stringing together sentences with proper nouns and verbs."

Then Alan Grant did Batman #471 with Croc and "decided to portray Croc in a sympathetic light for this issue - we get a Croc who just wants to belong and feel like he has a home, so he takes up in the sewers of Gotham City with a group of homeless people." I liked the issue, but I think it might have been the wrong time to go so sympathetic with Croc. It really undercut his feared ruthless gangster portrayal under Conway.

So, over the years, I think I wore rose-colored glasses too much on some of Croc's early Post-Crisis stories, stories which seem to have helped to undermine him (like even, let's be honest, BTAS undermined him...where did they get his portrayal? Veitch probably to some degree, Alan Grant maybe too) enough to lead to even greater longer term undermining in comics starting in Hush (i.e. generic lizard monster, as you so aptly put it).

[Spencermalley935]

My preferred version of Killer Croc is is his original, traditional portrayal (a ruthless, intelligent criminal who just has a skin condition and sharp teeth but at the same time has a more sympathetic side as well), I don't care for when they try to make him a cannibal, turn him into the Lizard from Spider-Man or write him as being dumb.

Looking back at his original appearance, He could actually very easily be the main villain of an entire Batman movie with that characterization (even a Nolanverse one if I'm being honest), He's so much more interesting than Black Mask.

[Mistah K88]

I like sane gangster Croc... I don't know if I'm remembering correctly, but I remember in his earliest appearance he mainly wanted to be taken seriously. He knows he was considered to be a brute who was only to be used as "muscle" for gangs, but aspired to become the top dog.

[Spencermalley935]

You know, years ago, I might have agreed with you more on this point. I'm a big Post-Crisis guy too. But, in honest retrospect, Rick Veitch in Swamp Thing #66 (1987) started to seemingly dumb Croc down. He "more or less regressed to a reptile state and has trouble stringing together sentences with proper nouns and verbs."

Then Alan Grant did Batman #471 with Croc and "decided to portray Croc in a sympathetic light for this issue - we get a Croc who just wants to belong and feel like he has a home, so he takes up in the sewers of Gotham City with a group of homeless people." I liked the issue, but I think it might have been the wrong time to go so sympathetic with Croc. It really undercut his feared ruthless gangster portrayal under Conway.

So, over the years, I think I wore rose-colored glasses too much on some of Croc's early Post-Crisis stories, stories which seem to have helped to undermine him (like even, let's be honest, BTAS undermined him...where did they get his portrayal? Veitch probably to some degree, Alan Grant maybe too) enough to lead to even greater longer term undermining in comics starting in Hush (i.e. generic lizard monster, as you put it).

Yeah, especially with Almost Got Em. People tend to forget that was Batman undercover, not Croc himself. He was never portrayed as being that stupid earlier in the show.

[JBatmanFan05]

Yeah, especially with Almost Got Em. People tend to forget that was Batman undercover, not Croc himself. He was never portrayed as being that stupid earlier in the show.

Exactly, and I'm as big as BTAS lover as they come, but the show wasn't perfect. And it wasn't so tethered to the comics like the actual comics are, and so they did what they wanted and I can't fault BTAS too much, but BTAS got its take on Croc from somewhere (that clearly wasn't Gerry Conway). And BTAS was so popular that it very likely or even almost certainly bleeded into Batman comics writers' minds when writing him in the comics afterward.

It's just not true that Croc's undermining started with Loeb's Hush. Not true. It was a lot of little things, over time.

[Spencermalley935]

Exactly, and I'm as big as BTAS lover as they come, but the show wasn't perfect. And it wasn't so tethered to the comics like the actual comics are, and so they did what they wanted and I can't fault BTAS too much, but BTAS got its take on Croc from somewhere (that clearly wasn't Gerry Conway). And BTAS was so popular that it very likely or even almost certainly bleeded into Batman comics writers' minds when writing him in the comics afterward.

It's just not true that Croc's undermining started with Loeb's Hush. Just not true. It was a lot of little things, over time.

TAS also really liked to do sympathetic villains as well (Two-Face, Mr. Freeze, heck even the Riddler got a somewhat sympathetic backstory) so it's kind of strange to me they never gave Croc that kind of treatment on the show. Instead they made him a pretty standard criminal and not even an ambitious one like he was under Conway. You'd think they'd at least look at Alan Grant issue for inspiration as that would seem right up their alley but apparently not. I suppose Waylon Jones just wasn't that high a priority for them.

The influence of BTAS can be a bit of a of drawback when it comes to both creators and fans. Aside from Croc, I'd say it's also why some fans don't care for Catwoman because of it's decision to cast her as an animal rights activist/damsel in distress or how they think Bane is supposed to be just a glorified luchador, fighting Batman for a paycheck and whose defining trait is the tube in his head.

[lemonpeace]

I kind of like him as Roy's sponsor. A guy dealt a bad hand, and turned it on those that abused him for it. I don't want him to be a cannibal or idiot, but the bad guy who warns others not to be bad guys. Who will keep an eye on other mutated metahumans like himself. I wouldn't call him an ally, but someone that, if he's not bothered, he won't bother them. With a morality that, while more grey than most, does have lines to it.

He's less of a monster than he appears even if he's a pretty dangerous individual, but he's also not a giant mutant lizard-man even if he's fairly strong.

Aggressively territorial sewer gator that's actually just a guy with a skin condition, leader of the forgotten and occasional ally of anyone not endangering his people or pissing him off.
Intelligence level may vary.
Cannibalism only on a really bad day, like, really early on when he was still convinced he's an actual sewer gator. No longer eat human but uses the reputation to scare people away.

These sum up my preferred Croc. I don't get much of a kick from a monstrous-looking character just being man-eaters brutish bad guy if there is an alternative, and I felt like Croc's origin lends itself to the more nuanced and sympathetic take on him. I like him street smart, he's been around and he's done some wild boy **** in his past but he doesn't really wanna be some big villain or a cape; he just trynna have some peace and maybe make some money.

[Timothy Hunter]

Has any comic attempted to bridge the gap between the Pre Crisis gangster and the Post Crisis sewer dwelling monster?

[Frontier]

Has any comic attempted to bridge the gap between the Pre Crisis gangster and the Post Crisis sewer dwelling monster?

I think his skin condition got progressively worse and effected his mental stability?

[John Venus]

I think in Hush they said Tommy Elliot made him more reptilian which have affected his intelligence?

I prefer sympathetic Croc. It's too easy to make him as bad as he looks and the gangster niche is already full with Penguin, Two-Face, Black Mask and Carmine Falcone.