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  1. #196
    Spectacular Member Captain Nostalgia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    The only time I found teenagers interesting is when I was younger than a teenager. You can do good stories with kids, but even though that's how Legion was founded -- it wasn't their bread and butter. Same story with the X-Men. Once in a while they will introduce a teen-aged team, but those books never last. With Teen Titans, it's in the name (unless they remove it). Legion can include teens -- though I'd prefer they just be part of the Academy, but the team outgrew the teenager aspect long ago. When Dave Cockrum first helped revitalize the team, no one thought Legionnaires were still high school age. In fact, Wildfire was an adult with a full time job before he became a member.
    The constant reboots as teenagers is why I quite the Legion.

    I grew up reading the Legion which had years of character development and relationships and than one day....

    poof it was all gone,

    all the sudden Lighting Lad and the legion looked like 14 years old....I'm not sure which thousands reboot that was.

    I agree the Legion should be young adults 22 to 28 not teenagers....I wouldn't buy an Xmen teenager run either.


    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    Love your points about Bendis and the Old Fans part (a group I am proudly a member of)
    Thank you for the compliment, I haven't met an old fan yet that likes Bendis's Legion.

    But Bendis chose to clean the slate, alienate long time fans, and now he must pay the fiddler.

    In short, DC should always put their loyal readers ahead of a writers personal ambitions.

  2. #197
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    For diversity, I've said it before;

    Tyroc, Invisible Jacques, Karate Kid 2 (Myg), Kid Quantum 2, GEAR, Dragonmage, Dragonwing, Harmonia Li, Chemical Kid, Glorith.

    Five black Legionnaires, five Asian Legionnaires. (And there may be more that I don't even count, like Otaku and Mwindaji.) All surgically excised from this Legion by Bendis, in favor of race-changing pre-existing white characters.

    The Legion can be written successfully with a large cast, set in the future, *BECAUSE IT HAS.* If this guy can't do it, that's not the fault of the property. It didn't suddenly stop being possible because a new writer entered the room.

    I'll agree that it obviously ain't easy.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    For diversity, I've said it before;

    Tyroc, Invisible Jacques, Karate Kid 2 (Myg), Kid Quantum 2, GEAR, Dragonmage, Dragonwing, Harmonia Li, Chemical Kid, Glorith.

    Five black Legionnaires, five Asian Legionnaires. (And there may be more that I don't even count, like Otaku and Mwindaji.) All surgically excised from this Legion by Bendis, in favor of race-changing pre-existing white characters.

    The Legion can be written successfully with a large cast, set in the future, *BECAUSE IT HAS.* If this guy can't do it, that's not the fault of the property. It didn't suddenly stop being possible because a new writer entered the room.

    I'll agree that it obviously ain't easy.
    Yes to this post.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    For diversity, I've said it before;

    Tyroc, Invisible Jacques, Karate Kid 2 (Myg), Kid Quantum 2, GEAR, Dragonmage, Dragonwing, Harmonia Li, Chemical Kid, Glorith.

    Five black Legionnaires, five Asian Legionnaires. (And there may be more that I don't even count, like Otaku and Mwindaji.) All surgically excised from this Legion by Bendis, in favor of race-changing pre-existing white characters.

    The Legion can be written successfully with a large cast, set in the future, *BECAUSE IT HAS.* If this guy can't do it, that's not the fault of the property. It didn't suddenly stop being possible because a new writer entered the room.

    I'll agree that it obviously ain't easy.
    There’s also XS and Catspaw

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    For diversity, I've said it before;

    Tyroc, Invisible Jacques, Karate Kid 2 (Myg), Kid Quantum 2, GEAR, Dragonmage, Dragonwing, Harmonia Li, Chemical Kid, Glorith.

    Five black Legionnaires, five Asian Legionnaires. (And there may be more that I don't even count, like Otaku and Mwindaji.) All surgically excised from this Legion by Bendis, in favor of race-changing pre-existing white characters.

    The Legion can be written successfully with a large cast, set in the future, *BECAUSE IT HAS.* If this guy can't do it, that's not the fault of the property. It didn't suddenly stop being possible because a new writer entered the room.

    I'll agree that it obviously ain't easy.
    Some of these DC diversity changes makes me wonder is a suit or two go out to intentionally upset some fans. Taking the if you are not upsetting a certain amount of the fan base you aren't doing it right. Or maybe they thing cries of anguish from an existing fan base will draw in others like onlookers at a traffic accident on the other side of the road. I have never thought going for the, "I wasn't going to watch this movie but if it is upsetting this many people I might need to check it out" crowd is a profitable business model.

  6. #201
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    How can the Legion be at the same time unknown enough to require a total reboot but then known enough to try and change existing characters to cash in on their cashe?

  7. #202
    Amazing Member cam18's Avatar
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    Bendis the terrible gift that keeps on giving he did serious damage to most things marvel that he touched can't say im surprised he is doing the same at DC....and with JL know he gets to ruin a whole bunch of major players in one book.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    There’s also XS and Catspaw
    Ooh, I knew I was gonna forget someone(s)! Thanks!

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam18 View Post
    Bendis the terrible gift that keeps on giving he did serious damage to most things marvel that he touched can't say im surprised he is doing the same at DC....and with JL know he gets to ruin a whole bunch of major players in one book.
    Guardians of the Galaxy went from a favorite under DnA to off my pull list thanks to Bendis.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    Guardians of the Galaxy went from a favorite under DnA to off my pull list thanks to Bendis.
    Some people loved Bendis's work on the Avengers. I found some of his stories readable, but over all, was not a fan. His GOTG was crap. His X-Men wasn't bad, but went downhill towards the end, and I hate the way he had young Jean Grey invade Bobby Drake's private thoughts. That said -- his work on ALIAS (Jessica Jones) was easily his best work, IMHO. I don't think he's great at telling straight forward super hero stories -- and his Legion is a testament to that.

  11. #206
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    I know 5 YL was not universally loved, but it was a detailed, thoughtful re working of the Legion mythos. Revamp and reinvigorate some old characters, but have them recognizable; bring in some new blood, but let them have some screen time to connect. I am a very long time Legion fan, and that was still the high point for me.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearman View Post
    I know 5 YL was not universally loved, but it was a detailed, thoughtful re working of the Legion mythos. Revamp and reinvigorate some old characters, but have them recognizable; bring in some new blood, but let them have some screen time to connect. I am a very long time Legion fan, and that was still the high point for me.
    I am torn on 5YL while I freely admit it was a very dense (in a good way) read and the writers knew the Legion. However as well as it was done it lacked what made the Legion the Legion. Case and point as much as I was enjoying the read the book was so dark and gritty, two words I would never associate with the Legion. What cemented that for me was, my joy when Batch SW6 was introduced, the bright colors the cheerfulness into the dark world that Giffen and the Beirbaum's created. I don't need my legion forever regressed to their teen years, I have watch them grow up as I did. Just like I would find a perpetual 14 year old Dick Grayson annoying so is a forever young Legion. Garth and Imra have kids, Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel are married. I don't want them eternal adolescents but I also don't want them aged out so that new kids that I have no connection with can run the clubhouse. The Legion needs someone that gets it, just like every good artist isn't a good artist for the Legion. A Legion artist typically has a certain asthetic. The Legion at it's core has a bright optimistic feel to it; which is why the Great Darkness Saga was such a great contrast. The thing which some say is a hindrance, it's history, is also a strength because there is a high level of buy in by existing Legion fans that should be appreciated and embraced for decades of devotion and not thrown away chasing new readers who might be on to the next thing in 2 months. Yes the base needs to grow but you have a better chance by building on the established beloved aspects instead of trying to create something completely new out of whole cloth. Do something that the existing fans will love but will also appeal to new readers as well is the needle that needs to be threaded.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Ooh, I knew I was gonna forget someone(s)! Thanks!
    Correct me if I’m wrong but Bendis did use Computo II, right?

  14. #209
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    5YL contributed to the ultimate decrease in (correction) readership. It would have been a good limited series as a possible peak into the future before launching a new series that continue from where Levitz left it. It's a good read, but it was Giffen taking a superhero book and remaking it into a sci-fi book --- but more Blade Runner than Star Trek. As good as it could be at times, I consider it a failure on Giffen's part.

    I still have a pull list at the local shop -- and I have been collecting this Legion series -- despite some reservations. Because of that, the two Future State issues were in my box. Not sure I'll even bother reading -- because the artwork is garbage. I'm sure some people will like it, but I found it hideous!
    Last edited by kcekada; 02-28-2021 at 11:51 AM.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Correct me if I’m wrong but Bendis did use Computo II, right?
    Possibly Invisible Jacques, as well, as he refers to both an Invisible Kid *and* an Invisible 'Gentleman' who may have been Jacques.

    That said, I was unsure as to whether or not his Computo was a person who controlled machines, or an AI / data entity that generated a humanoid-appearing interface.

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