The Future of Legion of Super Heroes Franchise & The Bendis Problem

[Dataweaver]

I thought of the “future Justice Incarnate” idea; and while I agree they should do it, I don't think it should be the Legion of Superheroes. It should be a separate team that exists to facilitate crossovers among the various Legions; and it should exist in a supporting role, with the Legion encountering it whenever a Multiversal story arc is planned. But the focus of a future Legion book should be from a single universe, and should mostly stay in a single universe.

That said, I can see Infinite Frontier as an opportunity to build a new Legion that incorporates the best of every prior version, rather than going back to one of the former Legions.

[Sutekh]

I thought of the “future Justice Incarnate” idea; and while I agree they should do it, I don't think it should be the Legion of Superheroes. It should be a separate team that exists to facilitate crossovers among the various Legions; and it should exist in a supporting role, with the Legion encountering it whenever a Multiversal story arc is planned. But the focus of a future Legion book should be from a single universe, and should mostly stay in a single universe.

Johns introduced a Justice League of Earth, and while the team was mostly racist villains, the *idea* could be salvaged, even if most of it's founding members are in jail (or dead). And sure, there could be a 31st century Atlantean, a 31st century Amazon, a 31st century speedster and Green Lantern and archer, etc. But yeah, definitely make them a completely separate team, and keep them and their adventures, for the most part, totally separate from those of the Legion (save for those massive all-hands-on-deck scenarios like Earthwar or the Great Darkness Saga, where the Subs and Academy recruits and Heroes of Lallor, etc. are called up to help). Such a team could skip the usual Legion 'limits' like having people with powers from devices (Green Lantern, Atom), or multiple people with the same powers (Hawkman, Hawkwoman/girl), or even people with no powers at all (Batman, Green Arrow).

Ultimately, while I'm capable of the logic that what happens in the future may not represent the 'past' I'm reading about in Teen Titans or Justice League, because just because there are Green Lanterns in the far future, doesn't mean that they didn't all get killed and the Corp dissolved, like, twice, during the 20th century alone! Ditto, I'd be totally fine with there being a 31st century Tamaranean on one of the teams, perhaps even on a villain team, and it to be casually dropped that they are from Tamaran. "Wait, wasn't Tamaran blown up in the 20th century?" "So was Earth. And again in the 21st, 22nd, 23rd (twice!), etc. centuries. The past is like the future, with many branches and divergent timelines. Like the future, the past is multiple choice."

But, after the crap with Crisis and the removal of Superboy, Laurel Kent, etc. and how it destroyed the original Legion continuity, I don't trust DC to be smart enough to say that, and not just set fire to the whole thing all over again.

[Thor-Ul]

I thought of the “future Justice Incarnate” idea; and while I agree they should do it, I don't think it should be the Legion of Superheroes. It should be a separate team that exists to facilitate crossovers among the various Legions; and it should exist in a supporting role, with the Legion encountering it whenever a Multiversal story arc is planned. But the focus of a future Legion book should be from a single universe, and should mostly stay in a single universe.

That could work, specially if they would be background characters. The Legion is already complicated to add another elaborated spin.

That said, I can see Infinite Frontier as an opportunity to build a new Legion that incorporates the best of every prior version, rather than going back to one of the former Legions.

You mean another reboot after the Bendis' one?

[Thor-Ul]

Johns introduced a Justice League of Earth, and while the team was mostly racist villains, the *idea* could be salvaged, even if most of it's founding members are in jail (or dead). And sure, there could be a 31st century Atlantean, a 31st century Amazon, a 31st century speedster and Green Lantern and archer, etc. But yeah, definitely make them a completely separate team, and keep them and their adventures, for the most part, totally separate from those of the Legion (save for those massive all-hands-on-deck scenarios like Earthwar or the Great Darkness Saga, where the Subs and Academy recruits and Heroes of Lallor, etc. are called up to help). Such a team could skip the usual Legion 'limits' like having people with powers from devices (Green Lantern, Atom), or multiple people with the same powers (Hawkman, Hawkwoman/girl), or even people with no powers at all (Batman, Green Arrow).

Not fan of that many legacies. I can accept more to see thanagarians and tamaraneans and other alien species from present in that time (and the other way around too), but legacies should be the least. I can accept them as background characters with sporadic appearances. Not a Justice League 3000 again.

Ultimately, while I'm capable of the logic that what happens in the future may not represent the 'past' I'm reading about in Teen Titans or Justice League, because just because there are Green Lanterns in the far future, doesn't mean that they didn't all get killed and the Corp dissolved, like, twice, during the 20th century alone! Ditto, I'd be totally fine with there being a 31st century Tamaranean on one of the teams, perhaps even on a villain team, and it to be casually dropped that they are from Tamaran. "Wait, wasn't Tamaran blown up in the 20th century?" "So was Earth. And again in the 21st, 22nd, 23rd (twice!), etc. centuries. The past is like the future, with many branches and divergent timelines. Like the future, the past is multiple choice."

That is something than should be explored. It would help a lot. Hypertime maybe?

But, after the crap with Crisis and the removal of Superboy, Laurel Kent, etc. and how it destroyed the original Legion continuity, I don't trust DC to be smart enough to say that, and not just set fire to the whole thing all over again.

That is a risk we should consider.

[transformers03]

So, Brian Michael Bendis has been posting a lot Legion stuff lately on his Twitter and even heavily suggesting an announcement is coming.

Now, I hate when people are on here are bad-mouthing creatives. I think it gets too harsh and can come across as very entitled. It's all right to not like certain creatives, or not like a run, but there are healthier and more constructive ways to do it.

On that note, when I saw all that stuff on Bendis' Twitter, my first reaction was

"Please no."

It such a horrible thing to say, but I just don't want Bendis' Legion. I love the writer, I think he has done amazing things at Marvel and has at least Batman Universe and Naomi on the good corner of his DC resume. Yet his Legion is just something I don't want to think about anymore, and it literally hurts me to say that to writer.

[Captain Nostalgia]

So, Brian Michael Bendis has been posting a lot Legion stuff lately on his Twitter and even heavily suggesting an announcement is coming.

Now, I hate when people are on here are bad-mouthing creatives. I think it gets too harsh and can come across as very entitled. It's all right to not like certain creatives, or not like a run, but there are healthier and more constructive ways to do it.

On that note, when I saw all that stuff on Bendis' Twitter, my first reaction was

"Please no."

It such a horrible thing to say, but I just don't want Bendis' Legion. I love the writer, I think he has done amazing things at Marvel and has at least Batman Universe and Naomi on the good corner of his DC resume. Yet his Legion is just something I don't want to think about anymore, and it literally hurts me to say that to writer.

I wouldn't worry about it. Pretty much every longtime Legion of Super Heroes fan hates Bendis's reboot, and refuses to support it. Leaving but a small group of new fans who were attracted to the title.

I grew up reading the Legion of Super Heroes, but I can honestly say in their current incarnation they are dead to me, and I will not buy or read anything with them in it, until they're are rebooted to something other than "Legion in name only"

Bendis can tweet "Long live the Legion!" all he wants, but it won't be his Legion in the long run that lives on, if DC is interested in making a profit.

[Zero Hunter]

I don't even think most of the people reading it now are fans of the Legion period. They are Bendis fans and when he leaves they leave with him. It is sad that they all picked such a mediocre writer to follow around when they are so so many better writers out there which has led both Marvel and DC to think Bendis can sell any title.

[9th.]

I think it's mixture of people really collectors, Bendis fans, and people seeing where it goes.

I think the current incarnation can work just not under Bendis pen, I have seen far too many writers take his concepts and make them more than just ok.

I think y'all are going to be waiting a long time for a non-Bendis legion though unless he gets bored and hands the book off to someone else.

[Lee Stone]

I wouldn't worry about it. Pretty much every longtime Legion of Super Heroes fan hates Bendis's reboot, and refuses to support it. Leaving but a small group of new fans who were attracted to the title.

I grew up reading the Legion of Super Heroes, but I can honestly say in their current incarnation they are dead to me, and I will not buy or read anything with them in it, until they're are rebooted to something other than "Legion in name only"

Bendis can tweet "Long live the Legion!" all he wants, but it won't be his Legion in the long run that lives on, if DC is interested in making a profit.

I'm right there with you.

I'm sure Bendis is doing the Legion because he loved them (or says he did, anyway), or is afraid of being typecast as the go-to guy for Tarantino/Sopranos styles of comics.
But he has a strength- He's really, really good with street level heroes and building a criminal world around them.
He needs to stop fighting that and embrace it.

Whenever I thought of urban street-level heroes, I would usually think of DC first, before Marvel.
Granted, Dennis O'Neil did raise the bar for Daredevil, Power Man/Iron Fist, Moon Knight and Spider-Woman in the '80s.
But Marvel's characters always seem to have a power edge.
DC's Black Lightning and Black Canary would fit the mold of typical Marvel street characters. Street fighting abilities with a 'gimmick' power to visualize them or set them apart.
DC, however, also has Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing, Batwoman, Green Arrow, Question, Huntress, Manhunter, Onyx, Katana, Shiva, Red Arrow/Arsenal, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, Wildcat and a few I'm probably forgetting.

The Bendis Legion just doesn't connect narratively with the original. So there is no real reason for a Legion fan to read it.
It's basically a long-running Elseworlds.

[transformers03]

I think it's mixture of people really collectors, Bendis fans, and people seeing where it goes.

I think the current incarnation can work just not under Bendis pen, I have seen far too many writers take his concepts and make them more than just ok.

I think y'all are going to be waiting a long time for a non-Bendis legion though unless he gets bored and hands the book off to someone else.

People quickly responding with my initial post talking trash to Bendis, when I completely wanted to avoid that.

I have nothing but respect for the writer, and his run on Ultimate Spider-Man maybe my favorite run for my favorite character. His Batman Universe and Noami have proven he has a place within DC's pantheons, I just don't want his version of the Legion. The longer he's on the title, the less likely I feel that DC is going to bring back a classic version of the Legion of Superheroes.

I agree with 9th - for whatever reason, DC is allowing Bendis to move forward with his Legion. I'm predicting his Legion ends up being the backup for his Justice League after Ram finishes his JLD. Bendis is also the kind writer who oftentimes gets his way, even when it's undeserved. I don't think his Legion ended up being the smash hit that DC was banking on, yet the company has made the habit of pushing forward with some of Bendis' more questionable decisions. Older Jon comes to mind. Tom Taylor, who will be writing the solo adventures of Tom, is an amazing writer and will probably come up with good things in his run, but grown-up Jon is just not a premise I want to read, you know?

So unless DC was so upset with the initial failure of Bendis' twelve-issue run and place more editorial mandate to bring back a more iconic version of the Legion, I just can't see them moving past Bendis' Legion anytime soon. I also think grown-up Jon didn't turn out to be a success either and look at where that is now.

[Sutekh]

DC's Black Lightning and Black Canary would fit the mold of typical Marvel street characters. Street fighting abilities with a 'gimmick' power to visualize them or set them apart.
DC, however, also has Batman, Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing, Batwoman, Green Arrow, Question, Huntress, Manhunter, Onyx, Katana, Shiva, Red Arrow/Arsenal, Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, Wildcat and a few I'm probably forgetting.

A Bendis written Batman story could be amazing, given his style. But I'd be even more interested in seeing what he could do with Bronze Tiger or Wildcat, of the list you've made.

(Also Shiva, Huntress, Canary, Manhunter or Question, who could be his 'Alias' for DC.)

Something where he gets to dive deep into one character, or a smaller 2 to 4 person group, where he's got more room to develop them and let them finish a ***damn sentence without talking over each other like a bunch of gabbling geese.

[Thor-Ul]

People quickly responding with my initial post talking trash to Bendis, when I completely wanted to avoid that.

Quoting a movie I like a lot, "If I say: don't think about elephants, what do you think about?"

I have nothing but respect for the writer, and his run on Ultimate Spider-Man maybe my favorite run for my favorite character. His Batman Universe and Noami have proven he has a place within DC's pantheons, I just don't want his version of the Legion. The longer he's on the title, the less likely I feel that DC is going to bring back a classic version of the Legion of Superheroes.

He has excellent works in his resumé. I also had enjoyed Naomi, which reminds me in a way of Powers, at least narratively and works better on hows he build his stories. But also have bad stories. And in his line of work, writting, he is exposed to critique. I have nothing against him as a person, , but his work in the Legion, the few issues I had read, are not among his best work. Maybe I am more hostile to this version because it went on the reboot line, when Bendis could had worked perfectly in the last iteration of the Legion. Maybe would had still kept the same problems than Bendis has showed in his run, but at least would had expanded the backgrounds in someway instead of reduced them back. I would prefer to read new epics of the Legion in the classic continuity instead of Bendis ultimate version of the great darkness saga.

I agree with 9th - for whatever reason, DC is allowing Bendis to move forward with his Legion. I'm predicting his Legion ends up being the backup for his Justice League after Ram finishes his JLD. Bendis is also the kind writer who oftentimes gets his way, even when it's undeserved. I don't think his Legion ended up being the smash hit that DC was banking on, yet the company has made the habit of pushing forward with some of Bendis' more questionable decisions. Older Jon comes to mind. Tom Taylor, who will be writing the solo adventures of Tom, is an amazing writer and will probably come up with good things in his run, but grown-up Jon is just not a premise I want to read, you know?

I'm not so sure than DC is leting him go as free as you say. The promotion of the legion book (if it is coming) comes mostly from Bendis himself and his social network, as if he was asking to his followers to ask for such book. That can be a good strategy, but I don't know if it will work. I don't know, maybe the book is in preparation, but I'm not sure if Beendis is so commitment to the book as he says. Maybe, as Lee Stone suggest, he wants to diassociate from the noir/urban crime narrative, but cleary Legion was the worst title to try to do it.

I really wanted JLD to have its own title, but given that option, I prefer to them to still work as a back-up. But, yes, it is probably than Bendis could use his Legion for some story in future issues, or maybe not. But if that happens, then the League book would be out of my read list.

So unless DC was so upset with the initial failure of Bendis' twelve-issue run and place more editorial mandate to bring back a more iconic version of the Legion, I just can't see them moving past Bendis' Legion anytime soon. I also think grown-up Jon didn't turn out to be a success either and look at where that is now.

We don't know how the status quo will developt, but when the next rewritting of the Superman origin comes, (every fifteen years, acording to Millar, Morrison, Peyer & Waid) it is probable than another reboot of the Legion, with even more radical versions of the characters, will be published. If they still continue publishing comics in that year.

[transformers03]

I'm not so sure than DC is leting him go as free as you say. The promotion of the legion book (if it is coming) comes mostly from Bendis himself and his social network, as if he was asking to his followers to ask for such book. That can be a good strategy, but I don't know if it will work. I don't know, maybe the book is in preparation, but I'm not sure if Beendis is so commitment to the book as he says. Maybe, as Lee Stone suggest, he wants to diassociate from the noir/urban crime narrative, but cleary Legion was the worst title to try to do it.

I really wanted JLD to have its own title, but given that option, I prefer to them to still work as a back-up. But, yes, it is probably than Bendis could use his Legion for some story in future issues, or maybe not. But if that happens, then the League book would be out of my read list.

Well, he retweeted a Twitter post speculating that major Legion news will be coming, but like you said it isn't anything official. I also seem to recall that he shared an original art piece of the Legion on Insta, though I could totally be misremembering on that. Based on the things Bendis has said, I feel like he will be returning to his Legion. Apparently, the series ended with a lot of open-ended plot points, and they did introduce a major new character to the canon - The Golden Lantern. The Gold Lantern had his own profile in the Festival of Heroes One-Shot, and I don't think DC would do that unless they intend to bring them back in some form or another. I'm also reminded by the fact that Legion had an issue published as recently as February. With only four months passing, it's hard to tell how DC views the title. I don't think the series was a success (except that I did just remember that the Gold Lantern debuted did make somewhat a splash), yet its hard to tell if four months is enough time for DC to reconsider their strategy on the brand, or if they are just waiting for Bendis to have the time.

Either way, I think we'll be seeing Bendis' Legion sooner rather than later, which I legitimately am dreading.

On that note, the whole behind-the-scenes of DC has drastically changed since Bendis first started his Legion to where it is now. Dan Didio is no longer around, and there seems to be an effort from the remaining staff of editors to bring in more fan-favorite elements. Cassandra Cain is back wearing her awesome Batgirl outfit - great, fans love it. Roy Harper and his daughter are alive again - amazing, fans are looking forward to seeing that play out. Nightwing is back, with top-tier talent and a well-received book - fantastic, fans are eating it up. Barry Allen and Wally West are both Flash, with Wally as the lead of the main title while Barry is becoming an inter-dimensional hero - fans have literally been begging DC to do something like this for years.

Though they still have Jon be a grown-up, and I think that is universally not liked. Though again, again, they are releasing a new Super Sons mini, almost as if they are aware of the popularity of Jon and Damian, yet refuse to make it the main canon again.

I don't know, it's hard to read where DC Comics' heads are at the moment. They really could go either way with the Legion of Superheroes, and I do think Bendis has a lot of sway still. If he wants to continue it, and if DC allows him, he will continue it with his version of the Legion. The only real hope I can see is that he gains editors who are fans of classic Legion and force him to make his Legion more closely resembling that version. It's kind of sad that I'm begging for more editorial interference rather than the other way around, but I have made it clear on my views.

[Korath]

Yah, I can't wait to have outdated old boring LoSH makes a return. I'm sure it'll sells like hotcakes for such a long time. It won't at all alienate all possible new readers with its dated looks, almost all-white caste, outdated ideas and concepts and such a fucking long history that it'll be mandatory to go and read untold volumes of super old comics to even start to get what's happening.

Jeesh.

Though they still have Jon be a grown-up, and I think that is universally not liked. Though again, again, they are releasing a new Super Sons mini, almost as if they are aware of the popularity of Jon and Damian, yet refuse to make it the main canon again.

There is only a vocal minortity of haters who still cling to the fallacious idea that Kid Jon was ever interesting. I can assure you that teen Jon is far more interesting, has his fans and offers far more possibilities than the boring, bland and very basic kid he was before. Bonus point if he stops derailling Damian. Sure, that character is basically dead to me by still clinging to the Robin identity, but at least if he got distanced from Jon, it's a good thing. NEither of them needs the other.

[Thor-Ul]

Well, he retweeted a Twitter post speculating that major Legion news will be coming, but like you said it isn't anything official. I also seem to recall that he shared an original art piece of the Legion on Insta, though I could totally be misremembering on that. Based on the things Bendis has said, I feel like he will be returning to his Legion. Apparently, the series ended with a lot of open-ended plot points, and they did introduce a major new character to the canon - The Golden Lantern. The Gold Lantern had his own profile in the Festival of Heroes One-Shot, and I don't think DC would do that unless they intend to bring them back in some form or another. I'm also reminded by the fact that Legion had an issue published as recently as February. With only four months passing, it's hard to tell how DC views the title. I don't think the series was a success (except that I did just remember that the Gold Lantern debuted did make somewhat a splash), yet its hard to tell if four months is enough time for DC to reconsider their strategy on the brand, or if they are just waiting for Bendis to have the time.

All valid posibilities. But I don't know about the Gold Lantern, he seems to come late to the color lanters party. And if we are going to take those appearances as a hint, remember than taht sam special included an pretty picture of classic Karate Kid and SW6 Dragonmage.

Either way, I think we'll be seeing Bendis' Legion sooner rather than later, which I legitimately am dreading.

You and me, my friend. Eventually we will know something.

On that note, the whole behind-the-scenes of DC has drastically changed since Bendis first started his Legion to where it is now. Dan Didio is no longer around, and there seems to be an effort from the remaining staff of editors to bring in more fan-favorite elements. Cassandra Cain is back wearing her awesome Batgirl outfit - great, fans love it. Roy Harper and his daughter are alive again - amazing, fans are looking forward to seeing that play out. Nightwing is back, with top-tier talent and a well-received book - fantastic, fans are eating it up. Barry Allen and Wally West are both Flash, with Wally as the lead of the main title while Barry is becoming an inter-dimensional hero - fans have literally been begging DC to do something like this for years.

That is something to consider too. DC had a rocky year because a lot of things happened BTS, and we don't know how plans changed. Roght now it seems like what would had been the 5G initiative is being published by drops and they always need to keep a changing status quo so a part of the universe seems familiar menawhile another looks different and so the elements going changing. If Bendis Legion sticks or not, is still to soon to know.

Though they still have Jon be a grown-up, and I think that is universally not liked. Though again, again, they are releasing a new Super Sons mini, almost as if they are aware of the popularity of Jon and Damian, yet refuse to make it the main canon again.

Maybe kid Jon is having good sales, if the are publishing them again. And if they are publishing maybe they are waiting for the Jon series to conclude efore shake things again. We will see.

I don't know, it's hard to read where DC Comics' heads are at the moment. They really could go either way with the Legion of Superheroes, and I do think Bendis has a lot of sway still. If he wants to continue it, and if DC allows him, he will continue it with his version of the Legion. The only real hope I can see is that he gains editors who are fans of classic Legion and force him to make his Legion more closely resembling that version. It's kind of sad that I'm begging for more editorial interference rather than the other way around, but I have made it clear on my views.

Honestly, I think DC lacks a clear direction now, I don't even know who is in charge and what plans he/she has, maybe they are working on it, but it seems yet like DC is using the pieces of what would had been the 5G. And there is a contradiction,because at the same time, they are trying to recover the classic feeling and I don't think they are doing the best work in that aspect.