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  1. #1
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    Default The Future of Legion of Super Heroes Franchise & The Bendis Problem

    The story is out: There is no new LOSH comics this March...

    The executors of WB are not thinking like us fans. They do not care about that many readers are not okay with Bendis's writing. To them, he is the guy who created Miles Morales. And maybe they heard about the success of the Ultimate line.

    Years passed with a LOSH ongoing. DC survived without it. Then, the day arrived and this "big name" took over the control. He even went on TV to talk about it. And still, the ongoing did not sell enough.

    It is enough for the higher-ups to shelve LOSH for another few years. If Miles Morales-Bendis cannot make it happen, who can, right?

    The reality is different. LOSH needed to be important. The relaunch was in need of strong buzz. Maybe some of you enjoyed Bendis's Legion but it does not change the fact that people are suspicious of him. Just check Twitter to see what people think of his JL gig. It is wrong to judge a book without even reading it but we all know that Bendis comes with certain patterns and not particularly loved ones. The relaunch started bleeding with the announcement.

    Then the redesigns and the reboot came. Imagine waiting for years to see them again and what you get is just another alienating update. Reboots always deny what came before them. Another big gap in the history of LOSH. Yet another set of distance.

    The story? I don't even wanna go there. 6 issues of nonsense after Aquaman's trident and singular voice for multiple characters and single "data" pages that are telling but not showing.

    The sales are not good. 30K is not good. It is not going to help LOSH to float around.

    Now there are three options: The book returns again with Bendis and his problems. Or a new creative team shows up. Or to the oblivion again. Let's say the greatest writer ever arrives with a strong buzz and support. S/he needs to work within the borders of the new setup. Or another reboot to gain the trust of old readers. Both ways seem troubled to me. Continuous Donna Troy-ing of LOSH.

    I will never forgive Bendis for not working enough for this relaunch. He came up with thin-foiled empty stories told in an alienating LOSH universe. This is a crucial moment for LOSH, not in a good way. Cancellation within a year. Or relaunch within a year. Or a new team within a year. It does not matter. Their big-time return was very, very underwhelming. And now they stand at point of no return.
    Last edited by madmodpoetgod; 12-21-2020 at 06:38 PM.

  2. #2
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    Are you saying that Bendis's Legion has been cancelled? If it is, time to celebrate!

    If it hasn't, than give it time, old fans like myself hate it, the new fans are few and far between. Cancellation is inevitable.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    Are you saying that Bendis's Legion has been cancelled? If it is, time to celebrate!

    If it hasn't, than give it time, old fans like myself hate it, the new fans are few and far between. Cancellation is inevitable.
    I am saying that even cancellation is no good. This could be another crucial moment on the history of LOSH as now they kind of stand at point of no return.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Factor's Avatar
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    We don't know if the book is truly cancelled, but if it isn't, I truly hope Bendis can write something good enough to justify the need for another reboot. So far his run has been really disappointing and uninspired.
    Nothing worth scrapping everything that came before for a fifth (?) time.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmodpoetgod View Post
    I am saying that even cancellation is no good. This could be another crucial moment on the history of LOSH as now they kind of stand at point of no return.
    Well, I disagree with you than. When they cancel the book I'll pop open the champagne.

  6. #6
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    It's too soon to call this book cancelled. It wasn't declared FINAL ISSUE, so I won't be surprised if issue 13 is out in April. Or even a new #1 justified by Jon getting swapped out for Kara.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    Well, I disagree with you than. When they cancel the book I'll pop open the champagne.
    I hear you. I want Bendis to go but I think I made my veto against Bendis very clearly above. I am keeping my champagne for a real commitment both from DC and the creative team. Right now I am more fearful...fearful of another limbo due to poor performance of Bendis Legion.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmodpoetgod View Post
    I hear you. I want Bendis to go but I think I made my veto against Bendis very clearly above. I am keeping my champagne for a real commitment both from DC and the creative team. Right now I am more fearful...fearful of another limbo due to poor performance of Bendis Legion.
    Well I think no Legion is better than a Bendis incarnation of the Legion. I doubt that DC would do a reboot on the spot in March.

    Fans feel alienated from Bendis's radical change to the characters appearances. He opted to clean the slate, so if sales slump he owns it.

    I'm happy to have the Legion shelved again for a few years if it means a return to the Legion people love.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Man, the people who hate Bendis are always looking for an excuse to dunk on him.

    A lot of books got stealth cancelled or are in limbo until the next wave of announcements.

    Legion floats in Hawkman territory now; stalwart title to hardcore fans that doesn't really draw in the casual audience. They're essentially DC's X-Men (I know the Doom Patrol was the original comparison but it's evolved into something too different to consider in this comparison) in the future, thus having no chance of really crossing over with the other characters people like and being so far means that all the big event books have no impact on it. So you just have this side book that plugs along-- Like Batman Beyond. And that has a TV show and BATMAN behind it. Doesn't exactly blow up the charts.

    Legion's never going to be a must-buy for long short of someone like Hickman taking over it and at that point you're asking "DC, why can't you make the hail mary?" Because Marvel offered him X-Men over Legion. That's what it comes down to. I love Hawkman. I think the Legion is cool, but tell me objectively why they need to get Legion of Super-Heroes working before stuff like Supergirl, Batgirl, Wonder Woman and many other bigger IP are struggling to keep books or rise above 35,000 (and that's Wonder Woman FFS). Spoiler: They don't. Like Hawkman, which just wrapped up a great run, there are bigger fish to fry at DC and that unfortunately means fan favorites like The Legion will not be getting the big talent unless those guys walk through the door saying "I want Legion" and have enough of a name to get it made. Bendis, for good or ill, is known for USM, Daredevil and having the ability to spin new characters into IP that transcend into more profitable media (Jessica Jones, Miles Morales, Naomi, etc). Bendis, despite how much people shit on the dude, gives the suits what they want. You need someone of that level, like Donny Cates or some such, to demand Legion to see them break the glass sales ceiling month after month.

    I do think it's disingenuous to say Bendis (and Sook) didn't work hard on this book, though. Just issues 8-9 alone and Bendis coraling all those artists (he was the driving force for those) as well as the world building elements they introduce show they really shot high for this one. If it missed for you, that's perfectly fine and his poor attention to detail/weak editing have caught numerous mistakes in the book. It ain't perfect, but portraying this book as some cynical half-assed job is just bold-faced false.

  10. #10
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    I do believe that if they would have followed what Johns did during and after Final Crisis with LoSH, it might have sold more. The Quadboot of the team just made it less important. My question is (and this goes for the whole of DC) when will they see that a cohesive continuity is a GOOD thing. Instead of reboot after reboot, fix the damn problem and stop changing crap every five years. The DCU has been confusing since Infinite Crisis. Instead of another reboot, just streamline the timeline and make it work.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly Frankenstein View Post
    I do believe that if they would have followed what Johns did during and after Final Crisis with LoSH, it might have sold more. The Quadboot of the team just made it less important. My question is (and this goes for the whole of DC) when will they see that a cohesive continuity is a GOOD thing. Instead of reboot after reboot, fix the damn problem and stop changing crap every five years. The DCU has been confusing since Infinite Crisis. Instead of another reboot, just streamline the timeline and make it work.
    I couldn't agree more. Stop rebooting the Legion!

    For the record, of a previous poster, I do not hate Bendis, I quite enjoyed Event Leviathan...

    I simply hate having my characters changed and altered to the point of non recognition.....Just like how I hate when they kill off one my favourite characters to replace them with someone new.

    It's disrespectful to the fanbase and must stop.

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    It's too soon to call this book cancelled. It wasn't declared FINAL ISSUE, so I won't be surprised if issue 13 is out in April. Or even a new #1 justified by Jon getting swapped out for Kara.
    Could have sworn Bendis made it seem like legion would continue ater future state, it's probably just taking a month off.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Man, the people who hate Bendis are always looking for an excuse to dunk on him.

    A lot of books got stealth cancelled or are in limbo until the next wave of announcements.

    Legion floats in Hawkman territory now; stalwart title to hardcore fans that doesn't really draw in the casual audience. They're essentially DC's X-Men (I know the Doom Patrol was the original comparison but it's evolved into something too different to consider in this comparison) in the future, thus having no chance of really crossing over with the other characters people like and being so far means that all the big event books have no impact on it. So you just have this side book that plugs along-- Like Batman Beyond. And that has a TV show and BATMAN behind it. Doesn't exactly blow up the charts.

    Legion's never going to be a must-buy for long short of someone like Hickman taking over it and at that point you're asking "DC, why can't you make the hail mary?" Because Marvel offered him X-Men over Legion. That's what it comes down to. I love Hawkman. I think the Legion is cool, but tell me objectively why they need to get Legion of Super-Heroes working before stuff like Supergirl, Batgirl, Wonder Woman and many other bigger IP are struggling to keep books or rise above 35,000 (and that's Wonder Woman FFS). Spoiler: They don't. Like Hawkman, which just wrapped up a great run, there are bigger fish to fry at DC and that unfortunately means fan favorites like The Legion will not be getting the big talent unless those guys walk through the door saying "I want Legion" and have enough of a name to get it made. Bendis, for good or ill, is known for USM, Daredevil and having the ability to spin new characters into IP that transcend into more profitable media (Jessica Jones, Miles Morales, Naomi, etc). Bendis, despite how much people shit on the dude, gives the suits what they want. You need someone of that level, like Donny Cates or some such, to demand Legion to see them break the glass sales ceiling month after month.

    I do think it's disingenuous to say Bendis (and Sook) didn't work hard on this book, though. Just issues 8-9 alone and Bendis coraling all those artists (he was the driving force for those) as well as the world building elements they introduce show they really shot high for this one. If it missed for you, that's perfectly fine and his poor attention to detail/weak editing have caught numerous mistakes in the book. It ain't perfect, but portraying this book as some cynical half-assed job is just bold-faced false.
    To compare LOSH to Hawkman makes no sense at all. LOSH history is full of classic runs and it is deeply connected not only to DCU but to the general imagination of comic book readers of last 50 years or so. And LOSH was once a bestseller. I know that it did not keep that achievement for a long run but then the LOSH world was rich. Now it is completely detached from its own glory. It is dead-on-arrival like Waid's run. At least Waid told stories instead of jumping around. Look how average the reaction is: https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-b...-heroes-(2019)

    And all the gimmicks with multiple artists or the so-called arrival of Gold Lantern (or a panel or two).

    I am not even talking about the misuse of Jon or super unnecessary moment of Damian arriving in the future as baby-hitler.

    The book has no substance whatsoever.

    New Mutants sold 45K-50K copies with its #13. Legion sold 28K with #10.

    It is just Bendis's ego that he think he could save the franchise with his half-cooked reboot.
    Look how hard Hickman worked for his world-building HoxPox. And look at #6 of LOSH and "the introduction" of the hot members.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Now that this is all "One Universe" what if... They rest the Legion for awhile, but when they bring them back, they use the Sook designs, but make them the original Legion in terms of history and personalities, relationships, etc. ... maybe up to the end of "Magic Wars" before the 5 Yr Gap where the team never broke up. Or are people really that hung up on the appearances?

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The no face guy View Post
    Well I think no Legion is better than a Bendis incarnation of the Legion. I doubt that DC would do a reboot on the spot in March.

    Fans feel alienated from Bendis's radical change to the characters appearances. He opted to clean the slate, so if sales slump he owns it.

    I'm happy to have the Legion shelved again for a few years if it means a return to the Legion people love.
    Yeah, I gave Bendis’ reboot a shot and it really wasn’t enjoyable. I would love to see see this version of the LoS to be forgotten real quick.

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