The Future of Legion of Super Heroes Franchise & The Bendis Problem

[CaptCleghorn]

I'm not as bothered by the race bending as by other background changes. Ultra Boy being Desi is totally inconsequential compared to him no longer being a streetwise punk. Cosmic Boy being east Asian barely registers, but making him explicitly a one-percenter is a disgrace, and it goes against everything that Rokk Krinn stands for. And so on and so forth!

I liked the idea of Rokk as a star athlete who is used to winning and success. But, as you correctly point out, that's not what Rokk stands for. What I'd rather see is an early Rokk who is like that early on, but grows into the Rokk we're used to. LA Dodger legend Tommy Lasorda said that great players often don't make good coaches in that they didn't have to work as hard to get where they are as average players who needed effort and were better able to convey that idea to people they were training. Sure, you could have three teenagers with fully developed maturity start a team, but founders who started with more of a rookie mentality who grew into superhero legends makes for a better story in my opinion.

[Hypo]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO4sNVuBcfn/

I think this is new ?

It's not, it's from LOSH #9, the second artist jam issue.

[SilverScarlet]

They need to go back to basics....move the Levitz/Giffen team up 3-5 years ~ but not in the outlandish way they did in 5YL! ~ and go from there!
The secret with the Legion is not reinventing the wheel....build on what made it DC’s #1 book in the 80’s, keep older fans happy, and win new ones from there on!

[Thor-Ul]

Don't forget there was also Thunder, a Shazam! legacy.(and of course Brainiac-5 has always been a legacy) And that's not counting the retroactive legacies that were created for L.E.G.I.O.N. Personally, with the Legion I think the fewer legacies from present day, the better. (and of course Olliver Queen's who was a tour guide )

That is a better way to put it. I mean, to many legacies take away the attention of the Legion characters. It is better when the legacies works as background characters.

[Thor-Ul]

They need to go back to basics....move the Levitz/Giffen team up 3-5 years ~ but not in the outlandish way they did in 5YL! ~ and go from there!
The secret with the Legion is not reinventing the wheel....build on what made it DC’s #1 book in the 80’s, keep older fans happy, and win new ones from there on!

Do it in Black Label OGN format and you could have something. But not tied to any continuity anymore.

[D.Z]

Wonder what happens if DC moved the concept to 22nd century or instead current present day?

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Wonder what happens if DC moved the concept to 22nd century or instead current present day?

Then you've screwed up a fundamental element of the Legion -- its setting. Being set a thousand years in the future is a crucial element of its setting. It's a fundamentally optimistic take on what humanity's future might be, but set far enough down the line that it's not directly affected by whatever is happening in the comics set in the current day. At least, it shouldn't be affected. Establishing ties to 20th-century characters and concepts ultimately led to forced editorial interference or impositions on those thousand-years-later ties when editorial eventually dictated changes in the 20th-century characters (however long or short they lasted). The Byrne reboot led to the Superman editorial declaring that Laurel Kent was no longer a possible descendant of Superman, so another editorial imposition, the line-wide Millennium crossover, was used to retcon Laurel Kent's origins and true nature, and led to her being killed off. To say nothing of what the Byrne-reboot led to concerning Superboy, or editorial forcing Levitz to change his plans to revive Kara Zor-El through the Sensor Girl identity, or even what Five Years Later retconned Dev-Em into. (And I generally liked the Byrne reboot and Sensor Girl being Projectra; Five Years Later, not so much.) Levitz used a flashback tale to establish that the Guardians and GLC were still around, and even made them part of Universo's secret origin...and over a decade later, editorial took the position that Hal destroyed the Guardians, the Corps, and Oa.

Turning the Legion into a present-day-set alien empire would require retconning it's decades-long-setting on Earth, as well as the origins of its various members born on and from Earth. It would turn it into a pale echo of Marvel's Imperial Guard, when the IG is already a knowing pastiche of the Legion in the first place. It's a bad idea because it's diminishing the Legion in order to capitulate to would-be "fans" who have small minds and demand everything be made LESS imaginative and grand.

[Sutekh]

Then you've screwed up a fundamental element of the Legion -- its setting. Being set a thousand years in the future is a crucial element of its setting. It's a fundamentally optimistic take on what humanity's future might be, but set far enough down the line that it's not directly affected by whatever is happening in the comics set in the current day. At least, it shouldn't be affected. Establishing ties to 20th-century characters and concepts ultimately led to forced editorial interference or impositions on those thousand-years-later ties when editorial eventually dictated changes in the 20th-century characters (however long or short they lasted). The Byrne reboot led to the Superman editorial declaring that Laurel Kent was no longer a possible descendant of Superman, so another editorial imposition, the line-wide Millennium crossover, was used to retcon Laurel Kent's origins and true nature, and led to her being killed off. To say nothing of what the Byrne-reboot led to concerning Superboy, or editorial forcing Levitz to change his plans to revive Kara Zor-El through the Sensor Girl identity, or even what Five Years Later retconned Dev-Em into. (And I generally liked the Byrne reboot and Sensor Girl being Projectra; Five Years Later, not so much.) Levitz used a flashback tale to establish that the Guardians and GLC were still around, and even made them part of Universo's secret origin...and over a decade later, editorial took the position that Hal destroyed the Guardians, the Corps, and Oa.

Turning the Legion into a present-day-set alien empire would require retconning it's decades-long-setting on Earth, as well as the origins of its various members born on and from Earth. It would turn it into a pale echo of Marvel's Imperial Guard, when the IG is already a knowing pastiche of the Legion in the first place. It's a bad idea because it's diminishing the Legion in order to capitulate to would-be "fans" who have small minds and demand everything be made LESS imaginative and grand.

You've pretty much covered it all.

Every year someone comes along and says, 'maybe a Legion with less people / set in the past / no silly names / more Atlanteans/Amazons/Green Lanterns would work' and I think 'no thanks, and just call it Justice League 2.0, since it would manifestly *NOT* be the Legion.'

The Legion, with 30-odd regular characters, set 1000 years in the future, with no Bat-ties and no Amazons and no Green Lanterns and no Flashes, managed to be one of the top 2 DC titles for a decade. It was never 'too many characters' or 'too far away from Bat-continuity' that represented a problem.

Indeed, what killed it, IMO, was, as you say, it's ties to the Superman franchise, and the reboots to get rid of Supergirl, Laurel Kent, Superboy, etc. Tying it *again* to the past continuity is like waving the shotgun that crippled it and saying, "Maybe if I shoot you in the face *again* things will get better?"

[Thor-Ul]

Then you've screwed up a fundamental element of the Legion -- its setting. Being set a thousand years in the future is a crucial element of its setting. It's a fundamentally optimistic take on what humanity's future might be, but set far enough down the line that it's not directly affected by whatever is happening in the comics set in the current day. At least, it shouldn't be affected. Establishing ties to 20th-century characters and concepts ultimately led to forced editorial interference or impositions on those thousand-years-later ties when editorial eventually dictated changes in the 20th-century characters (however long or short they lasted). The Byrne reboot led to the Superman editorial declaring that Laurel Kent was no longer a possible descendant of Superman, so another editorial imposition, the line-wide Millennium crossover, was used to retcon Laurel Kent's origins and true nature, and led to her being killed off. To say nothing of what the Byrne-reboot led to concerning Superboy, or editorial forcing Levitz to change his plans to revive Kara Zor-El through the Sensor Girl identity, or even what Five Years Later retconned Dev-Em into. (And I generally liked the Byrne reboot and Sensor Girl being Projectra; Five Years Later, not so much.) Levitz used a flashback tale to establish that the Guardians and GLC were still around, and even made them part of Universo's secret origin...and over a decade later, editorial took the position that Hal destroyed the Guardians, the Corps, and Oa.

Turning the Legion into a present-day-set alien empire would require retconning it's decades-long-setting on Earth, as well as the origins of its various members born on and from Earth. It would turn it into a pale echo of Marvel's Imperial Guard, when the IG is already a knowing pastiche of the Legion in the first place. It's a bad idea because it's diminishing the Legion in order to capitulate to would-be "fans" who have small minds and demand everything be made LESS imaginative and grand.

Wasn't this tried before with L.E.G.I.O.N. and R.E.B.E.L.S.?
The prime concept of the Legion is not about a team of future teenagers or a random space team, it is about a better future, not matter how dismalpresent time could be.

[CaptCleghorn]

I will say that the thousand year thing is silly. The relative length of time is important, but that has just added a sliding timeline with use of today + 1,000 years. I still maintain the best placement of the Legion is starting in the year 3247. That way, actual story time can be gauged if that's needed and there's been enough time passing to allow for huge changes in tech and society.

[married guy]

I NEVER want to see 30th century variations of Batman, Aquaman etc.
The fact they WEREN'T part of the Legion was why I enjoyed the book so much as a kid.
The Superman connection was the only link it ever needed.

That said, I did love the 90's version with XS.

[mathew101281]

It’s a club of young superheroes in the future, why is this so hard for people to get their head around?

[Sutekh]

I will say that the thousand year thing is silly. The relative length of time is important, but that has just added a sliding timeline with use of today + 1,000 years. I still maintain the best placement of the Legion is starting in the year 3247. That way, actual story time can be gauged if that's needed and there's been enough time passing to allow for huge changes in tech and society.

Yeah, making it *exactly* 1000 years is silly. It's always been, IMO, ~1000 years, give or take, and it needn't progress every single year, nor should events in the 21st century *suddenly* become relevant.

The worst, IMO, other than that Laurel-is-a-Manhunter crap, was Brainy having a breakdown because Kara had 'just' died 1000 years ago, which he's known about all his life, as if it was suddenly relevant for no damn reason, because he's always been dating a woman 1000 years dead, *who can time travel.* He can still visit her *in the time she was alive* as he always has every other time he's been with her. They can have plenty of time together, thanks to time travel, he just obviously has to time travel back to *before* she died.

Best of all, it's been established that some wankery exists to prevent Superboy/girl from 'remembering' too many details of their visits to the future to 'preserve the timeline' or some such, so Kara probably won't even think it's odd that Brainy has been showing up for / calling her to the future for dates every week in the couple years before she died, trying to cram a lifetime worth of relationship into the few years they have to work with.

Good lord, Brainy. Turn the dial on the Time Sphere back five days, and go get your smooch on!

And cut your damn hair!

[CaptCleghorn]

Best of all, it's been established that some wankery exists to prevent Superboy/girl from 'remembering' too many details of their visits to the future to 'preserve the timeline' or some such, so Kara probably won't even think it's odd that Brainy has been showing up for / calling her to the future for dates every week in the couple years before she died, trying to cram a lifetime worth of relationship into the few years they have to work with.

The scene in Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" was a great example of this, especially with the Legionnaires present in the panel. He pointed out it really was a two-way street and time-travel can be very wonky.

[Robotman]

It’s a club of young superheroes in the future, why is this so hard for people to get their head around?

That concept is far too weird and wacky for people to grasp and enjoy! Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go watch a movie about an anthropomorphic gun-toting raccoon and his best friend (who happens to be a walking talking tree) who fly around in a space ship and try to save the galaxy from evil gods.

Good day sir!