The Future of Legion of Super Heroes Franchise & The Bendis Problem

[The no face guy]

it was the fans who wanted him back because they thought they were gonna relive their childhoods/teen years again...

It's not that people are wanting a Legion that is completely fixed in the past, (return to Levitz) it's that Bendis wiped the slate clean and made too many changes that alienated existing fans.

In my opinion, Geoff John's JSA run is the perfect template for team change. Add some roster changes while keeping the core of main characters people love unchanged. Keep the continuity.

[Sutekh]

It's not that people are wanting a Legion that is completely fixed in the past, (return to Levitz) it's that Bendis wiped the slate clean and made too many changes that alienated existing fans.

In my opinion, Geoff John's JSA run is the perfect template for team change. Add some roster changes while keeping the core of main characters people love unchanged. Keep the continuity.

Agreed.

Although, and I'm only speaking for this one old school fan of the classic Levitz Legion, but I'd be just as fine with a completely new team of young heroes set in the future of that team, maybe with some of the newest of the old Legion (Glorith, Dragonwing) or less-used older members (Tyroc, Karate Kid 2/Myg, Tellus) as the 'old guard' (characters whose stories don't feel as fully 'told' already and who haven't been developed or explored as much as Sun Boy, Phantom Girl, etc.) and some brand-new characters as the newest generation.

I'm just *beyond* done with yet another version of Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, Brainiac 5, etc. We've done that with the Reboot. AND the Threeboot. And the best parts of those, IMO, were not the AU-tweaked versions of original Legionnaires, but the completely new ones like Kid Quantum 2 and Dragonmage and GEAR and Shikari and Kinetix and Gates and XS and Gazelle and Sizzle and Turtle and yes, even poor Dream Boy!

If Bendis had gone with a bunch of newbs I'd never heard of, set 50 odd years in the future of 'my' Legion, like Monster Boy and Dr. Fate and Gold Lantern and whomever, I'd have been way more interested in that than a fourth version of Ultra Boy, Element Lad, Lightning Lass, Colossal Boy, etc. (although a future Legion could certainly include some young heroes descended from or inspired by original Legionnaires!).

[Zero Hunter]

Actually no one was screaming for Levitz to come back. That was the big problem Legion had for a long time was after Abnett/Lanning Dc was convinced it had to keep bringing back old writers while the fans kept screaming for new blood. After DnA they brought back Waid and let him reboot with his horrible 3boot. When it was clear that people were not into that mess they brought back Shooter to try and salvage something from the Waid mess, but it was too late. Then they brought back Levitz thinking that would be the magic bullet even though he had hardly written anything in decades. On top of that things were such a mess as far as the timeline went because of Flashpoint not even Levitz who was writing the book really know what was in and out as far as the history went which just made his run worse as it went along.

If fans were yelling for anyone to take over it was Hickman, and by the rumors at the time he was very interested in taking on the series, but DC screwed that up.

[Overhazard]

Actually no one was screaming for Levitz to come back. That was the big problem Legion had for a long time was after Abnett/Lanning Dc was convinced it had to keep bringing back old writers while the fans kept screaming for new blood. After DnA they brought back Waid and let him reboot with his horrible 3boot. When it was clear that people were not into that mess they brought back Shooter to try and salvage something from the Waid mess, but it was too late. Then they brought back Levitz thinking that would be the magic bullet even though he had hardly written anything in decades. On top of that things were such a mess as far as the timeline went because of Flashpoint not even Levitz who was writing the book really know what was in and out as far as the history went which just made his run worse as it went along.

If fans were yelling for anyone to take over it was Hickman, and by the rumors at the time he was very interested in taking on the series, but DC screwed that up.

Hickman's avengers run was an homage to the Legion. I would have liked James Roberts or Jeff Parker on Legion too, but Roberts was busy with transformers at the time.

[9th.]

Actually no one was screaming for Levitz to come back. That was the big problem Legion had for a long time was after Abnett/Lanning Dc was convinced it had to keep bringing back old writers while the fans kept screaming for new blood. After DnA they brought back Waid and let him reboot with his horrible 3boot. When it was clear that people were not into that mess they brought back Shooter to try and salvage something from the Waid mess, but it was too late. Then they brought back Levitz thinking that would be the magic bullet even though he had hardly written anything in decades. On top of that things were such a mess as far as the timeline went because of Flashpoint not even Levitz who was writing the book really know what was in and out as far as the history went which just made his run worse as it went along.

If fans were yelling for anyone to take over it was Hickman, and by the rumors at the time he was very interested in taking on the series, but DC screwed that up.

What's the story there? Legion would be one of the DC series I'd want him on along with the Titans.

[Thor-Ul]

[/B]
What's the story there? Legion would be one of the DC series I'd want him on along with the Titans.

During a time there was the rumour then Hickman would write the Legion. Was in the time of the publication of Doomsday Clock, I think.

[The no face guy]

Agreed.

Although, and I'm only speaking for this one old school fan of the classic Levitz Legion, but I'd be just as fine with a completely new team of young heroes set in the future of that team, maybe with some of the newest of the old Legion (Glorith, Dragonwing) or less-used older members (Tyroc, Karate Kid 2/Myg, Tellus) as the 'old guard' (characters whose stories don't feel as fully 'told' already and who haven't been developed or explored as much as Sun Boy, Phantom Girl, etc.) and some brand-new characters as the newest generation.

I'm just *beyond* done with yet another version of Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, Brainiac 5, etc. We've done that with the Reboot. AND the Threeboot. And the best parts of those, IMO, were not the AU-tweaked versions of original Legionnaires, but the completely new ones like Kid Quantum 2 and Dragonmage and GEAR and Shikari and Kinetix and Gates and XS and Gazelle and Sizzle and Turtle and yes, even poor Dream Boy!

If Bendis had gone with a bunch of newbs I'd never heard of, set 50 odd years in the future of 'my' Legion, like Monster Boy and Dr. Fate and Gold Lantern and whomever, I'd have been way more interested in that than a fourth version of Ultra Boy, Element Lad, Lightning Lass, Colossal Boy, etc. (although a future Legion could certainly include some young heroes descended from or inspired by original Legionnaires!).

I hear you on the reboots of characters. to be honest I've been alienated from the Legion for sometime now, as a result.

People want subtle change when it comes to their favourite comic characters, not a radical overhaul they don't recognize.

I love Karate Kid 2, Tyroc and Tellus, so for me that should be a given.

Make the changes where needed, but don't expect fans to support a book that completely overhauls the Legion characters they love, because they won't. I don't, not a dollar is spent on that book

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Might it be possible to salvage the Legion by leaning into all the reboots and exploring how the future is ever-changing based upon the whims of the present day DCU?

What about a Multiverse-based LSH that includes members from all the previous incarnations of the team, in addition to several new ones, each representing wildly different ideas of the future? Some could be dark, some hopeful, and everything in between. Explore far out sci-fi concepts and humanity's different visions of the future.

The hook can be that the LSH need to find whatever McGuffin or baddie (like the Time Trapper), which requires them to travel to various timelines, picking up new members along the way and allowing the same superhero soap opera mixed with far-future sci-fi that attracted old fans while also giving new fans a way to jump on board because the setting and status quo would always be changing.

You can a storyarc exploring the 1950s conception of the future, along with even older ones from the 30s & 40s. Explore what those future visions say about the societies they came from. Then, you can explore newer incarnations of the future in which man & machine are at war, in harmony or have become merged into something else entirely. Explore dark futures of environmental collapse, social unrest, plutocracy, and hundreds more.

Stop trying to pin the future down to one thing and accept that the future is ever-changing because it is a blank canvass to which the present pins their hopes, dreams and fears upon.

Go big and bold and bring in a bunch of different artists to depict new and different future worlds while also exploring and re-examining the old ones.

[Will Evans]

Actually no one was screaming for Levitz to come back. That was the big problem Legion had for a long time was after Abnett/Lanning Dc was convinced it had to keep bringing back old writers while the fans kept screaming for new blood. After DnA they brought back Waid and let him reboot with his horrible 3boot. When it was clear that people were not into that mess they brought back Shooter to try and salvage something from the Waid mess, but it was too late. Then they brought back Levitz thinking that would be the magic bullet even though he had hardly written anything in decades. On top of that things were such a mess as far as the timeline went because of Flashpoint not even Levitz who was writing the book really know what was in and out as far as the history went which just made his run worse as it went along.

If fans were yelling for anyone to take over it was Hickman, and by the rumors at the time he was very interested in taking on the series, but DC screwed that up.

Serious question

Do you think in 5 years, after Hickman’s done with his X-Men run, he would be interested in doing LoSH at DC?

[Sutekh]

Might it be possible to salvage the Legion by leaning into all the reboots and exploring how the future is ever-changing based upon the whims of the present day DCU?

What about a Multiverse-based LSH that includes members from all the previous incarnations of the team, in addition to several new ones, each representing wildly different ideas of the future? Some could be dark, some hopeful, and everything in between. Explore far out sci-fi concepts and humanity's different visions of the future.

The hook can be that the LSH need to find whatever McGuffin or baddie (like the Time Trapper), which requires them to travel to various timelines, picking up new members along the way and allowing the same superhero soap opera mixed with far-future sci-fi that attracted old fans while also giving new fans a way to jump on board because the setting and status quo would always be changing.

I would have loved a version of Legion of Three Worlds called Legions of One World, where Time Trapper shenanigans caused all the Legionnaires who had a bunch of alternate versions created disharmonious vibrations and kind of phased each other out of existence temporarily, pushing each other out of the shared universe they were temporarily inhabiting, leaving it up to the single-universe Legionnaires (Tyroc, Myg, Dawnstar, Tellus, Invisible Jacques, Polar Boy, Kid Quantum 2, Monstress, GEAR, Dragonmage, XS, Kinetix, Thunder, Gazelle, Dream Boy, etc.) to band together and fight to A) save them (and get everyone back in 'their' respective universes), and B) defeat the Trapper.

Stop trying to pin the future down to one thing and accept that the future is ever-changing because it is a blank canvass to which the present pins their hopes, dreams and fears upon.

That would make all sorts of sense. Since the 'present day' stories aren't all told, and we don't know the 'final fate' of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. the future will *always* be different than any modern-day extrapolation would suggest. (For instance, in the 80s Legion, there was a Green Lantern Corps, they just didn't hang out on Earth anymore. Then in Legion of Three Worlds, the Corps was temporarily gone in the 'present-day' and it was said that Sodam Yat was the 'last one' and they'd all been dead for ages. And now, oh look, they're back again, in the present, so that 'future' with them still being all gone 1000 years later is totally out of date AGAIN, since they were only 'all gone' for like, a couple years, tops!)

The future will always be changing. And we have no idea how. Just lean into it. Set a story on 31st century Tamaran, and if someone asks 'Wasn't Tamaran destroyed in the 20th century' shrug it off. 'Fake news. How many times was Earth reported destroyed? It's a *planet.* It's been around for millions of years. It'll be around a million more, I'd imagine.'

[9th.]

Might it be possible to salvage the Legion by leaning into all the reboots and exploring how the future is ever-changing based upon the whims of the present day DCU?

What about a Multiverse-based LSH that includes members from all the previous incarnations of the team, in addition to several new ones, each representing wildly different ideas of the future? Some could be dark, some hopeful, and everything in between. Explore far out sci-fi concepts and humanity's different visions of the future.

The hook can be that the LSH need to find whatever McGuffin or baddie (like the Time Trapper), which requires them to travel to various timelines, picking up new members along the way and allowing the same superhero soap opera mixed with far-future sci-fi that attracted old fans while also giving new fans a way to jump on board because the setting and status quo would always be changing.

You can a storyarc exploring the 1950s conception of the future, along with even older ones from the 30s & 40s. Explore what those future visions say about the societies they came from. Then, you can explore newer incarnations of the future in which man & machine are at war, in harmony or have become merged into something else entirely. Explore dark futures of environmental collapse, social unrest, plutocracy, and hundreds more.

Stop trying to pin the future down to one thing and accept that the future is ever-changing because it is a blank canvass to which the present pins their hopes, dreams and fears upon.

Go big and bold and bring in a bunch of different artists to depict new and different future worlds while also exploring and re-examining the old ones.

I don't see why not, it seems like a good of an idea as any. The Legion should be constantly reboot since the current continuity is always in flux.

[Vordan]

[/B]
What's the story there? Legion would be one of the DC series I'd want him on along with the Titans.

Long story short: DC met with Hickman before Bendis hopped over and talked about him working for them. Didio and Lee were negotiating with him. However Didio brought over Bendis and basically treated him as DC’s next big superstar giving him everything he wanted which included Legion. Hickman had apparently pitched for Legion as well but DC went with Bendis. Meanwhile Marvel crawled back to Hickman and promised him carte blanche with the X-Men, the one big Marvel book Hickman still wanted. So Hickman signed up with Marvel instead.

Serious question

Do you think in 5 years, after Hickman’s done with his X-Men run, he would be interested in doing LoSH at DC?

Who even knows if DC is still going to be alive 5 years from now? Plus DC isn’t interested in giving superstar contracts anymore, so Hickman probably wouldn’t get the same deal as Bendis got. If Hickman did join DC he’d probably get Superman since Supes would probably be one of the few books DC would still be publishing, and he’s said he wants to do some work on solo characters, while still allowing himself the option to do Legion stories.

Unless Legion had some big multimedia project to cause DC to push the team, I can’t see DC putting Hickman on them sadly.

[Lee Stone]

I love Karate Kid 2, Tyroc and Tellus, so for me that should be a given.

Make the changes where needed, but don't expect fans to support a book that completely overhauls the Legion characters they love, because they won't. I don't, not a dollar is spent on that book[/QUOTE]

I agree.
Just using the name isn't always going to work.

[kalai]

Who, besides a handful of old timers would want to read about that shit ? Nobody, that's who. Nobody wants to have to read hundreds of back-issues with very dated art and stories just to start understanding what's happening.

Look, I get it. What you liked to read once, you want to read again, that's fair. But what you liked already failed otherwise it wouldn't have been discontinued. And it needs to change to resonate with new readers. I'll take a character I like a lot, Honor Guest, the Silencer. She hates Talia al'Ghul in her series but appears on good term with her in Event Leviathan.

Well, I don't mind at all because I'd rather Bendis makes use of her and change some things to make her works better with readers if need be. LOSH is in the same situation, with the added malus that fans of older series are out there clomaring for things to get back the way they liked it and it makes them sort of gatekeeprs, which doesn't help the series either.

Actually NO, I don't think the readers need another reboot to the already convoluted continuity issues with Legion.
They can introduce those characters to new readers by bringing the OG Legion to the NOW,
or they can do a New Legion set in the future, 50 years or 100 years later,
that way the OG Legion is like JSA or the Seven Soldiers of Victory.
They are basically in the background history but they are part of the lore, which is kind of important.
Would you be bothered by the history of JSA and Seven Soldiers if you are reading JLA? Obviously not.
What we don't need is another reboot which also changed Superman's Superboy years by saying he didn't actually join the Legion.
So it is also a soft reboot to Superman, because in Pre-Flashpoint Superman, he had Legion years,
and New-52 Superman according to Morrison also had Legion years,
and now, there is none, which is weird.
So do we really need another reboot? I would say no.

[kalai]

Might it be possible to salvage the Legion by leaning into all the reboots and exploring how the future is ever-changing based upon the whims of the present day DCU?

What about a Multiverse-based LSH that includes members from all the previous incarnations of the team, in addition to several new ones, each representing wildly different ideas of the future? Some could be dark, some hopeful, and everything in between. Explore far out sci-fi concepts and humanity's different visions of the future.

The hook can be that the LSH need to find whatever McGuffin or baddie (like the Time Trapper), which requires them to travel to various timelines, picking up new members along the way and allowing the same superhero soap opera mixed with far-future sci-fi that attracted old fans while also giving new fans a way to jump on board because the setting and status quo would always be changing.

You can a storyarc exploring the 1950s conception of the future, along with even older ones from the 30s & 40s. Explore what those future visions say about the societies they came from. Then, you can explore newer incarnations of the future in which man & machine are at war, in harmony or have become merged into something else entirely. Explore dark futures of environmental collapse, social unrest, plutocracy, and hundreds more.

Stop trying to pin the future down to one thing and accept that the future is ever-changing because it is a blank canvass to which the present pins their hopes, dreams and fears upon.

Go big and bold and bring in a bunch of different artists to depict new and different future worlds while also exploring and re-examining the old ones.

I thought that was Geoff Johns's original intention at the end of Legion of Three Worlds,
the post Zero-Hour team (of Earth-247) was suppose to go around the Multiverse and find other survivors of the previous Multiverse,
so they would be similar to Marvel's Exiles, Legion from around the Multiverse joined together, pity no one really picked up on that thread.