Zack Snyder Explains Why DC Movies Can't Be Like Marvel Movies

[Castle]

I can't believe there is an argument that the Raimi Spider-Man movies don't have much humor when we have Bruce Campbell making cameos in them, along with stuff like JK Simmons and Tobey!Peter making an ass of himself in SM3.

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Raimi movies are almost 20 years now, people had 20 years to say this and not one did, some...wait... a very few are now saying this now because they dont want MCU films to look bad alone for their overuse of humor. Nah, I think Marvel is all alone with this one. even their phase 1 films were a tad better with not over doing the humor.

Raimi's films was a balance of a early phase 1 marvel film like Iron Man 1 and a Singer/Nolan film.

Avatar started being mocked not long after it came out. It was a solid entertaining film, but it was a pretty cliche story (Dances with Wolves set in space, it received criticism for it's White Savior tropes) with cliche characters that were mostly used as window dressing to show off all the advances in special effects.

Compared to Avatar, Marvel films are far more mocked and called out. What people like Scorsese or James Mnagold said about Marvel films, they will never say it about Avatar, because there is line that all directors understand with each other. Hate or love Avatar, Avatar is still a movie made by James Cameron as one of the best director of his time in terms of a cinematic visual experiences and use of 3D.

Marvel is light years easier to mock because Marvel films are more factory done with no real creative directing vision like Avatar. So in the universe of film, that is a far more easier target than a films like Avatar.

[Dunkelzahn]

It's funny to read these discussions after just having seen an MCU movie that proves that despite a PG-13 rating you can still explore darker themes than in an R rated movie that has some boring CGI guy from space being sent by an even more boring CGI guy from space to find some mother boxes...

Long story short, nobody who isn't biased against MCU movies will say that Black Widow is an action comedy or has an overall humorous tone, especially when compared to Raimi Spider-Man.

I wouldn't be so sure of this after reading comments here.

[Dunkelzahn]

Raimi movies are almost 20 years now, people had 20 years to say this and not one did, some...wait... a very few are now saying this now because they dont want MCU films to look bad alone for their overuse of humor. Nah, I think Marvel is all alone with this one. even their phase 1 films were a tad better with not over doing the humor.

Raimi's films was a balance of a early phase 1 marvel film like Iron Man 1 and a Singer/Nolan film.



Compared to Avatar, Marvel films are far more mocked and called out. What people like Scorsese or James Mnagold said about Marvel films, they will never say it about Avatar, because there is line that all directors understand with each other. Hate or love Avatar, Avatar is still a movie made by James Cameron as one of the best director of his time in terms of a cinematic visual experiences and use of 3D.

Marvel is light years easier to mock because Marvel films are more factory done with no real creative directing vision like Avatar. So in the universe of film, that is a far more easier target than a films like Avatar.

The movie called Pocahontas or Dancing with Wolves in Space and a lot of other stuff was not mocked? Really?

[Username taken]

Snyder's JL cut is objectively poorly made. It's an assembly cut, containing scenes where Steppenwolf tells Darkseid the same information multiple times and doesn't know when to cut a scene because it isn't serving the story

That's a point a made about the Snyder Cut of JL and why I very rarely discuss it.

The movie is more of an assembly cut than a director's cut of the movie.

It's like practically everything that Snyder shot was put in the cut which is why the run time was bloated and some scenes were dragged out.

Regardless of WB's interference, that version of the movie would NEVER have been released in cinemas.

[Castle]

Your using "artistic" as a measure of quality.

There's no measure of any anything called "artistic".

Unless you're changing the english language.

Actually there is a measure for artistic.

This is the reason, no one will ever give Taylor Swift a Whitney Houston or Mariah carey song to sing, since the artistry of her voice factually does not cover up to 4 octaves range.

In the same way, most writers of X-MEN TAS would have not gone along with many MCU screenplays, because the stories told in X-MEN TAS covered what are seen clearly as real adult issues that some like disney may feel ''kids'' are not ready to be exposed to. However the artistry goes up higher, if you tackle those issues very well beyond a dumb it down for kids narrative, while been respectful to your overall audience that yes, includes kids.

[Username taken]

Actually there is a measure for artistic.

This is the reason, no one will ever give Taylor Swift a Whitney Houston or Mariah carey song to sing, since the artistry of her voice factually does not cover up to 4 octaves range.

In the same way, most writers of X-MEN TAS would have not gone along with many MCU screenplays, because the stories told in X-MEN TAS covered what are seen clearly as real adult issues that some like disney may feel ''kids'' are not ready to be exposed to. However the artistry goes up higher, if you tackle those issues very well beyond a dumb it down for kids narrative, while been respectful to your overall audience that yes, includes kids.

None of what you just posted explains your point.

Choice of song is not artistry.

Choice of subject matter is not artistry.

[Rincewind]

Actually there is a measure for artistic.

This is the reason, no one will ever give Taylor Swift a Whitney Houston or Mariah carey song to sing, since the artistry of her voice factually does not cover up to 4 octaves range.

In the same way, most writers of X-MEN TAS would have not gone along with many MCU screenplays, because the stories told in X-MEN TAS covered what are seen clearly as real adult issues that some like disney may feel ''kids'' are not ready to be exposed to. However the artistry goes up higher, if you tackle those issues very well beyond a dumb it down for kids narrative, while been respectful to your overall audience that yes, includes kids.

Are you now claiming industry recognition is how artistic quality is measured? Pretty sure MCU movies have won more oscars than Snyder movies. If Oscars don’t count then how are you measuring?

[Username taken]

I can't believe there is an argument that the Raimi Spider-Man movies don't have much humor when we have Bruce Campbell making cameos in them, along with stuff like JK Simmons and Tobey!Peter making an ass of himself in SM3.

It's not surprising because the individual citing the Raimi movies has quite clearly not seen them.

Anyone that's seen them will know just how much comedy there were in the movies.

Part of the reason that people hate Spider-man 3 so much is the "cringey humor" . Heck, the "raindrops falling on my head' scene in SM2 got some criticism back then. The movie literally descended into comedy for a surpising length.

[Kirby101]

Which is the better painting objectively and artistically? Since there is clear criteria that everyone will agree on.

[Castle]

It was "stretched" because it wasn't oversimplified. We were given time to buy into Wanda's grief and then to start seeing the cracks and repeatedly see that Wanda wasn't stopping. We needed time to see both the alluring and the disturbing nature of the reality as well as make the same generalizations and justifications that Wanda was doing.
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[/QUOTE]

It was over-simplified I even said in my first 2 reviews, of the show that nothing happened.

if you liked Wandavsion, that is good, I did not mind it for a disneyplus show, but now you can watch X-MEN's Legion but I must say, this is a far more complex show and the story even very difficult to get on first watch for even the smartest comic nerds and I am not one of them. Here is little taste of what is disturbing with reality and morality taken to another story level that you will not find in an MCU disney plus show like Wandavision.

"Depth" is when characters don't just come out and yell what they're feeling

Depth is when a story is not the basic of generic.

[Castle]

Which is the better painting objectively and artistically? Since there is clear criteria that everyone will agree on.

Both are good. however this is not a direct equivalent of comparing CGI in movies or comparing story telling depth in movies. You have seen the video I posted about TDK. Are you really telling me that this is better?


In TDK you can see the other background of buildings and cars very well. You cant even see it here in black panther. the CGI that gives you the clearer sight of the environment, is the better artistic film objectively. And that is fairly TDK.

[Username taken]

Both are good. however this is not a direct equivalent of comparing CGI in movies or comparing story telling depth in movies. You have seen the video I posted about TDK. Are you really telling me that this is better?

The video you posted of the Dark Knight was practically done.

Like I said earlier, why do you get so many things wrong. The only CG in that scene was the removal of the ramp. Anyone that knows anything about Nolan knows that he employs very little CGI in his movie.

You really should have researched this before posting it. It completely torpedoes your argument. It means you can't even identify what constitutes CGI and what doesn't...

[Thezmage]

It was over-simplified I even said in my first 2 reviews, of the show that nothing happened.

I must humbly request that you make up your mind as to whether things need to be action-packed or in-depth character studies. Because one minute you're using "action-driven" as an insult and the next you're complaining that a story isn't sufficiently dumbed-down because things aren't exploding fast enough.

if you liked Wandavsion, that is good, I did not mind it for a disneyplus show, but now you can watch X-MEN's Legion but I must say, this is a far more complex show and the story even very difficult to get on first watch for even the smartest comic nerds and I am not one of them.

Here is little taste of what is disturbing with reality and morality taken to another story level that you will not find in an MCU disney plus show

I've seen Legion. It is different but not darker than Wandavision. Quite frankly, considering how much you clearly missed in Wandavision, it obviously qualifies as a very complex show by your own definition

Depth is when a story is not the basic of generic.

I honestly can not understand what this sentence is supposed to say. I suspect that either "basic" or "generic" (or maybe even both) might be a typo but I honestly can not tell what it might be.

[Metro]

It is not objectively wrong. if it was, please tell me where I went wrong from a film angle. And Also I hate to say this, but you are so far wrong here with Cameron because

James Cameron is a fan of Snyder's film Style

James Cameron is not a fan of marvel films.



I dont think so, because not that long ago, you were so into the Marvel vs DC thing in a more fan driven way, that you said I was talking nonsense when I objectively pointed out that the film making style of Days of Future Past was so superior to MCU films that Marvel felt they could not go on with Aaron Johnson Quicksilver anymore.


Please look at your own past comments on the film making process of comic films.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-the-MCU-Films
It honestly felt as if it was you that did not understand much and I and Revolutionary Jack had to explain the film making process to you,

please read your own past comment not even mine. that I even told you I will pass, because it quickly because the bad MCU vs X-MEN debate, when the real question or debate should have beeen why didn't MCU just use more updated practical effects like DOFP did when MCU has more money.

However as I already explained in that thread., the film making process of MCU is very cooperate with little creative freedom all their films must look the same, so no director like Bryan Singer or James Cameron can just come up with their own thing and just have that pass in an MCU film.

Please call me many things, but don't say I don't know the film making process when you have already asked me to tell you about and I sure did in way no person been fair and objective, regardless of if they like marvel or DC more can say I was talking trash.

Why does everything you say sounds so made up?
Especially when you claim James Cameron doesn't like Marvel films and yet he himself congratulated Marvel when Endgame passed Avatar as the highest grossing film

It was over-simplified I even said in my first 2 reviews, of the show that nothing happened.

if you liked Wandavsion, that is good, I did not mind it for a disneyplus show, but now you can watch X-MEN's Legion but I must say, this is a far more complex show and the story even very difficult to get on first watch for even the smartest comic nerds and I am not one of them. Here is little taste of what is disturbing with reality and morality taken to another story level that you will not find in an MCU disney plus show like Wandavision.





Depth is when a story is not the basic of generic.

It's strange you talk about Wandavision when going by other posts I've read from you, you haven't even watched it.

[Kirby101]

So we aren't comparing the MCU to the Snyder films now? It's compared to the Nolan Batman films?