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  1. #1
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    Default Zack Snyder Explains Why DC Movies Can't Be Like Marvel Movies

    https://comicbook.com/movies/amp/new...marvel-movies/

    Zack Snyder recently did an interview on why he thinks DC films can't be like Marvel films. After reading the article, I agree with him quite a bit.

    Long story short there have been too many popular films and tv shows for DC characters where audiences are already attached.

    Its not just the live action shows and movies either, its the animated ones as well that I think we base many expectations of quality on. Personally, I have higher expectations for DC films still than I do Marvel and its because I know what a good batman, superman, wonder woman, flash, joker, etc storyline and actors look like and not based on the current film track record. Whereas Marvel has for the most part been a pleasant surprise because of low or no expectations of characters due to not being very exposed to them.

    The Marvel characters I have been exposed to prior to the MCU, I am critical on such as X-Men and Spiderman. In fact, I'm not a fan of the new Spiderman, I watch it because its part of the MCU, not that it necessarily stands on its own.

    Let's discuss and tell me what you think on the topic.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    That does not change the fact that Snyder just never got DC characters. His mindset is too stuck in the Watchmen style comics, and he tried to bury the regular DC in that. If you read his whole outline of what he had planned you can see he never had a clue why people like DC characters.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    That does not change the fact that Snyder just never got DC characters. His mindset is too stuck in the Watchmen style comics, and he tried to bury the regular DC in that. If you read his whole outline of what he had planned you can see he never had a clue why people like DC characters.
    It isn't just DC characters. Snyder's worldview is so... bleak. And that permeates all his films. There are no heroes in his world, just those who die grandly. In a Snyder movie, the only metric of whether or not you are 'good' is how gloriously you died, or how you finally sacked up and killed the other guy.

    He's a terrible choice for a mainstream superhero film. And that's even before we get into all the other serious problems he has a filmmaker, and the messages he prefers to convey with his films.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Zack Snyder says DC movies can't be like Marvel movies? Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, and Birds of Brey say hi.

    In all fairness, I can follow Snyder's idea that allowing for more voices then one shared universe can be a good thing, but the DCEU didn't get a bad start because they were trying to mimic Marvel (as we've seen, skewering closer to Marvel was when they got good), but because they started with bad shared universe movies. Even though I think Snyder has proven himself to have been the wrong choice for DC and seems to keep falling upwards, he does have an interesting point, whatever qualifications he has or does not have to be a good judge on the subject.
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  5. #5
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    Honestly, part of what make Justice League so underwhelming for me was just how pointless the fight scenes were.

    Wonder Woman was less Wonder Woman, and more 'Less Strong Superman', same for Aquaman. Cyborg was vital yet he didn't seem to do more, nor did Flash.

    In the final fight in Avengers, all the characters had fight scenes that played to their strengths. In Justice League, they had fight scenes to fill time.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComicJunkie21 View Post
    Long story short there have been too many popular films and tv shows for DC characters where audiences are already attached.

    Its not just the live action shows and movies either, its the animated ones as well that I think we base many expectations of quality on. Personally, I have higher expectations for DC films still than I do Marvel and its because I know what a good batman, superman, wonder woman, flash, joker, etc storyline and actors look like and not based on the current film track record. Whereas Marvel has for the most part been a pleasant surprise because of low or no expectations of characters due to not being very exposed to them.
    And expectations . . . don't apply to Marvel.

    I mean, I'm still attached to versions of Marvel characters from '90s cartoons.

  7. #7
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    I've made the argument before that the reason depictions of Superman, Batman and Spiderman get purity tested is because they were getting compared to other cinematic versions of the character. I've been told that the MCU GotG characters are extremely unfaithful to the comics, with even a creator coming out and saying so, but not a lot of people get upset over this because people don't read comics.
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  8. #8
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    It's pointless comparing the JL movie to the Avengers movie because of how they were laid out and how we got to know the Avengers in their own movies first. A more appropriate comparison might be "The Magnificent 7" / "The 7 Samurai" or "The Dirty Dozen." Movies that were about the gathering of a group of individuals who become a team. And those films did a better job of outlining what each character was about and finding a way to pay it off in one movie.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    And expectations . . . don't apply to Marvel.

    I mean, I'm still attached to versions of Marvel characters from '90s cartoons.
    Funny thing is, the Avengers 90's tv show flopped and not a lot of people saw it. If you're attached to the Marvel 90's cartoons, those are pretty much just Spiderman and X-Men. Captain America, Thor, Ironman...these were are basically virgin characters.

    Also...why are you guy talking about JL? You know he Snyder basically didn't direct that movie, right?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    It's pointless comparing the JL movie to the Avengers movie because of how they were laid out and how we got to know the Avengers in their own movies first. A more appropriate comparison might be "The Magnificent 7" / "The 7 Samurai" or "The Dirty Dozen." Movies that were about the gathering of a group of individuals who become a team. And those films did a better job of outlining what each character was about and finding a way to pay it off in one movie.
    I think the advantage that films like the Magnificent 7/7 Samurai have is that the characters are all from the same world. The JL is comprised of different superheroes who live in the same fictional universe, but each of their corners are very different from each other with extensive lore attached to them that would require a film each just to scratch the surface of it. It's possible to do a film like that with these characters, but I imagine it would be very difficult even without the nightmarish production of JL.

    I think Snyder has a point that there are so many versions of these characters that audiences are going to bring their own preconceived notions into the film with them and it's not possible for every film to measure up to that while also doing its own thing. BUT it has happened. Batman 1989 was like nothing the general public had seen for Batman at that time and it was a hit. Then we went to the Nolan films. Nicholson, Ledger and Phoenix all did different renditions of the Joker and all were embraced. So the expectations are a factor, but not necessarily a catch all excuse. And I think Snyder does rely on the reputations of the characters in part to sell his story instead of doing the work to build up his versions themselves. So the films want it both ways, rely on the audiences bringing in their built-in love and recognition of these characters, but using "don't bring preconceived notions of these characters in with you" to deflect criticism.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Funny thing is, the Avengers 90's tv show flopped and not a lot of people saw it. If you're attached to the Marvel 90's cartoons, those are pretty much just Spiderman and X-Men. Captain America, Thor, Ironman...these were are basically virgin characters.
    Spider-Man, X-Men, Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Incredible Hulk, Silver Surfer and yes, even Avengers. I'm one of the few people who actually liked the Avengers cartoon. But it was unusually geared toward my tastes. By then, I was already into comics and was oddly fascinated by the second string characters who were a solid supporting presence (I had liked them in the Iron Man cartoon too). I was also getting into some non-American approaches to superheroes. So, the '99 Avengers cartoon with its second-string roster and Kamen Rider-esque aesthetic was up my alley. I also like Spider-Man Unlimited with its grab bag of Marvel deep cut canon (Counter-Earth! The Knights of Wundagore! Machine Man X-51! Man-Wolf!). One of the first things I did upon getting Disney+ was binging the Avengers cartoon.

    If there was one I wasn't that attached to it was Silver Surfer, which came across as kind of boring and self-serious. I know lots of people love it. Me, I'd rather have cheesy fun than super-serious.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    And expectations . . . don't apply to Marvel.

    I mean, I'm still attached to versions of Marvel characters from '90s cartoons.
    Expectations do apply to Marvel, if you would've read the last part of what I wrote. The characters and cartoons that were popular in the 90s were the ones that I mentioned I do have expectations on which includes Spiderman and X-men. However outside of those, most people probably didn't have an expectation of Marvel characters since we weren't very exposed to them successfully outside of comics. Heck, Captain America was a widely known character but hadn't been adapted as many times as quite a few DC characters before the MCU so there were little to no expectations for his films.

    Now that the audience knows what a good Captain America film and storyline is, how will that affect future iterations in film and tv. Most likely similar to Spiderman imo although Spiderman is way more popular and we may see some MCU charactersnot have as good of longevity after the first iterations. While the MCU Spiderman makes money, the films and actor have been criticized for not being a good iteration of Spiderman in comparison to Raimi's from the early 2000s. Once there is a good baseline to compare a film or character to, the iterations afterwards are graded harder imo.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Maybe people have attachments to good adaptations, but no one ever complained how Henry Cavill’s Superman isn’t enough like Dean Cain’s or that Tobey Macguire never lived up to Nicholas Hammond. Was anyone who saw Pryde of the X-Men first lamenting that the Wolverine in TAS didn’t have an Australian accent?

  14. #14
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    The only truly successful live-action Marvel franchise in the 20th century was the Bill Bixby/Lou Ferigno Incredible Hulk series. And the Hulk movies were not as successful as the other MCU films, to the point where they pretty much said that those movies are not in the same continuity as the other films, even with the Tony Stark post-credits scenes. So maybe the Snyder argument has some merit.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    Maybe people have attachments to good adaptations, but no one ever complained how Henry Cavill’s Superman isn’t enough like Dean Cain’s or that Tobey Macguire never lived up to Nicholas Hammond. Was anyone who saw Pryde of the X-Men first lamenting that the Wolverine in TAS didn’t have an Australian accent?
    I was very disappointed that Wolverine wasn't wearing yellow spandex in the live action version jk. In all seriousness when it comes to animated series, I think there is a certain level of audience acceptance when the voice actors don't 100 percent match how we expect them to without it taking away from the overall quality of the show or film. Trust me as an avid anime fan I know this irritation too well.

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