Zack Snyder Explains Why DC Movies Can't Be Like Marvel Movies

[Castle]

[QUOTE=WebLurker;5305131]Just realized I never saw an Ang Lee movie; will have to fix that. I think Nolan is the kind of filmmaker that Snyder wishes he was. Remember, intentions vs. execution, pass/fail; both BvS and The Dark Knight had lofty goals in terms of the themes they wanted to explore. One pulled it off, the other didn't. Doesn't matter how good Snyder's intentions were, the end result is a bad movie and it still remains a


To drop a few important things.


I don’t think that snyder’s supposedly competitor movies supporters gets to to say Snyder was not nolan's successor, In the past 7 years, Snyder DC Fans have continued to grow warmer in reception because there is now a realization that Snyder was mostly correct on why you need to make comic films in a different way

You said people wanted to see storm/black panther, does anyone know about the nature of their romance apart from the fact both were made a couple because of their African heritage. That was their only connection and marvel got bored with that fast and broke them up


Homecoming and far from home are lesser films and a spiderman movie than the classics. Go on CBR Spiderman, there are many threads on this. And you know why I keep bringing spiderman? Because MCU should have found it easier to do better than the classics. If they could not do that, they will success less with X-men. Its just common mathematical logic.

The subject of how many fun and humor movies are talked about after 6 months? None. Wonder woman 84 is getting seriously criticised for the cartoony look that mcu movies are known for , a movie like X1 that destroyed the narrative that comic books should be cartoony just gets more memorable point in 2021. its logic.

Logan only finished off what X1 did, is why I even said RDJ Iron Man is not as iconic as Hugh Jackman Logan because X1 could at least grow to Logan. Iron Man 1 could not.

What ‘’naysayers’’. Please look at Marvel'S recent announcement of spiderman 3 and some are just melting down , how Holland's Spiderman has yet to even headline his own movies. AND Why should X-Men be like winter solider? Why cant it be like an x-men film . Why a downgrade movie? Winter Solider and Antman also are made the same way. they have the same VFX and cinematography from the house in style of marvel.

IF people are not scared why the presumed negativity, Avengers and Justice League may have been rivals for years in comics but Endgame is a low crossover bar in movies, all what Snyder has to do in make his cut even near as good as Watchmen and its over.

The first avengers movie is one of the movies that aged the worst, it’s the comic film that is mostly significant for the common hated final 3rd act CGI plot that even WW 1 gets criticised for. Usually this is only tolerable if with all that destruction. There was realism, outstanding cgi and stakes. Avengers is not really all that but Man of steel was.

The only goal avengers succeed in was to connect different heroes together, however this is not something this is impressive to many directors, its not even impressive to many comic fans who were fans of A-List comic heroes like spiderman or batman. If the director of spiderman 2 jumped ship to MCU, then it shows MCU movies are mass manufactured for real because we have to ask, why are the VFX of MCU not as artistically drawn out like Spiderman 2.

I have lost track of the directors who respect Snyder and don’t care for Marvel . Cameron just happen to be the most popular one.

When did Snyder fans bully people? Please see the fans pov who have spoken so favourable about the classics. MCU Spiderman compared to the classic? Rebooted star wars movies to the classics? the part about using words like cult and bullying, for fans raising legitimate question about a series they love does not fly.

[Castle]

[QUOTE=Steel Inquisitor;5305087]Far as a I know Home Alone isn't officially a horror movie, that's just an opinion. But if they do a grim dark Home Alone movie ala Snyder it'll get very confused looks, and I'd watch it just for the unintentional comedy since it's supposed to be a comedic series. The MCU is far more self ware than Snyder's movies a, even movies like Aquaman and Shazam acknowledge how silly they are and trun with it.



/QUOTE]

Home alone is another movie that got a 20th look back,, still holds up but people now see many subtext and themes, one of that was horror. The good thing with old movies is you find many new things, that is why they hold up.

That began with B vs S, Man of Steel wasn't grim dark, that was. No, Man of Steel still would have been controversial only the Avengers wouldn't focus so much on stopping collateral damage but they'd remain more self ware about rescuing people being a bigger priority. Which is something Jenkins does right in WW '84. Very few people want a grim dark Superman.[

The zod neck snap was controversial but it gets understandable with time. I think some like me were just waiting for people to grow up more and understand what happens in war. 7 years is enough for growth in comparison to Avengers, its just cheesy and silly when Hulk smashed loki on the floor and people started laughing. you realise now that this are just some of the real evidence MCU movies are dumbed down. Snyder beat that in 2013 and was trashed by some critics, however there is vindication that the approach was correct.

Avengers wouldn't focus so much on stopping collateral damage but they'd remain more self ware about rescuing people being a bigger priority. Which is something Jenkins does right in WW '84. Very few people want a grim dark Superman.

Superman Man of steel is not grim dark. he is only grim dark compared to the colourful lightness of Marvel. Should never have been compared

[green_garnish]

To drop a few important things.

Can I drop a few important things off my own?

there is now a realization that Snyder was mostly correct on why you need to make comic films in a different way

Reference please? I assume this is not just your opinion.

Homecoming and far from home are lesser films and a spiderman movie than the classics. Go on CBR Spiderman, there are many threads on this. And you know why I keep bringing spiderman? Because MCU should have found it easier to do better than the classics. If they could not do that, they will success less with X-men. Its just common mathematical logic.

Reference please on how Homecoming and Far From Home are less successful? I'm talking numbers, not anecdotal feelings

The subject of how many fun and humor movies are talked about after 6 months? None.

Reference please? I hate Ragnarok but try as I might I can't stop hearing about it. Or Guardians of the Galaxy. Or Ant Man. Or Iron Man 1 for that matter, which you keep bringing up as the best, and I would argue had more humor than either of its successors.

Wonder woman 84 is getting seriously criticised for the cartoony look that mcu movies are known for , a movie like X1 that destroyed the narrative that comic books should be cartoony just gets more memorable point in 2021.

Reference please? WW84 is getting criticised a lot, but not for that, that I've seen.

Logan only finished off what X1 did, is why I even said RDJ Iron Man is not as iconic as Hugh Jackman Logan because X1 could at least grown to Logan. Iron Man 1 could not.

Reference please? This seems like a huge stretch.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Superman Man of steel is not grim dark. he is only grim dark compared to the colourful lightness of Marvel. Should never have been compared

Superman condemned his people to suffer in the Phantom Zone.

He was discouraged from saving a bus of children and had to allow his father to die, all to keep his powers hidden.

Superman was met with constant mistrust and fear.

Man of Steel was grim dark without the neck snap. Or MCU, period.

[Castle]

Superman condemned his people to suffer in the Phantom Zone.

He was discouraged from saving a bus of children and had to allow his father to die, all to keep his powers hidden.

I have seen worse moments in other comic films from both marvel-fox and DC and other independent comic movies. Those movies were called dark but not grim dark.

Anyone should find it strange that words like grim dark was used for man of steel at the same time disney was preaching comic films should be light-hearted and fun. I dont believe that is a coincidence since this was not a thing in a post era batman and robin world.

He was discouraged from saving a bus of children and had to allow his father to die, all to keep his powers hidden.

To protect clark's life. this is one of the most difficult parts of the movie but the most bitterly realistic. many parents don't wish for other kids to die but they will do anything to save their kid even more than another kid that is not their own. its a sad but true reality.

Superman was met with constant mistrust and fear.

Mutants are mistrusted and feared all the time.

Man of Steel was grim dark without the neck snap. Or MCU, period.

Grim dark because he was put among light-hearted films.

Man of steel is lighter than Spiderman 3, X-Men first Class and Dark Knight Rises. those movies were not called grim dark, so why is man of steel getting that label?

[green_garnish]

Man of steel is lighter than Spiderman 3, X-Men first Class and Dark Knight Rises. those movies were not called grim dark, so why is man of steel getting that label?

What were the darker elements of those films? Also, why should Superman be dark at all?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I have seen worse moments in other comic films from both marvel-fox and DC and other independent comic movies. Those movies were called dark but not grim dark.

Some individual moments, yes. Combined, no.

Winter Solder, Far From Home, Avengers 2 and Age of Ultron combined may have dark moments, but that's hardly fair on the balance

[SiegePerilous02]

The jokes work because it pulls back, allows the audience time to relax.

Grim grim grim is God damn exhausting. And you can discuss 'realism' all you want, but there is nothing realistic about an alien with heat vision, flight and super strength.

The MCU films know how to distract from that fact, and allow the audience to breathe.

Snyder's stuff is just tiring

Yes, I've come to be unable to understand the "realism" argument of Snyder's movies. Especially when it's as guilty at picking and choosing when it wants to be realistic and when it wants to give into "coolness first, reality second" like any superhero story, Like Superman tackling/flying that terrorist leader through the wall which would realistically result in severe injuries if not death, but we're meant to believe Superman when he says he didn't kill anyone. And I do because I think that was the intent, but it's no doubt sloppy.

This Robin also apparently wore the shorts into battle, Batman can throw a massive crate from over his shoulder without any strain, the "grounded" movie still ends with an invincible alien and a Amazon warrior battling a CGI cave troll, etc. All of this would ironically be a lot easier to take seriously if the film was not so far up its own ass trying to be deep and serious.

[WebLurker]

To drop a few important things.

Uh huh.

I don’t think that snyder’s supposedly competitor movies supporters gets to to say Snyder was not nolan's successor...

And you don't get to gatekeep. You disagree with me that Snyder is a bad filmmaker, much less not being Nolan's successor? Fine, make your case, but saying someone else's opinion doesn't count isn't a valid argument (and, in fact, often points to the person having no actual proof for their assertions).

In the past 7 years, Snyder DC Fans have continued to grow warmer in reception because there is now a realization that Snyder was mostly correct on why you need to make comic films in a different way

We are talking outside of the Snyder cult, right? Frankly, while I have seen commentary on how the genre should expand and experiment, Snyder is not seen as the man with the vision on doing that. Heck, outside of the cult, the most positive reception I've seen to the Snyder Cut has been along the lines of supporting directorial freedom, pretty much nothing on Snyder being a good superhero filmmaker (in fact, BvS seems to have an even worse reception).

You said people wanted to see storm/black panther, does anyone know about the nature of their romance apart from the fact both were made a couple because of their African heritage. That was their only connection and marvel got bored with that fast and broke them up

Ask them. I just saw them saying they liked the couple, no reasons given. To be honest, I don't think there's always much logic behind shipping and everyone has their odd quicks (case in point, I think X-23 and Mercury should be a couple instead of having Hellion or teen Angel be X-23's significant others and I always liked Cyclops/Rogue thanks to the old X-Men: Evolution cartoon). Never got Black Panther/Storm, but to each their own.

Homecoming and far from home are lesser films and a spiderman movie than the classics. Go on CBR Spiderman, there are many threads on this. And you know why I keep bringing spiderman? Because MCU should have found it easier to do better than the classics. If they could not do that, they will success less with X-men. Its just common mathematical logic.

Guess I assumed you kept coming back to Spider-Man because that was the only argument you could make. (Also, your logic is in error; adapting one source has no bearing on how adapting another will.)

The subject of how many fun and humor movies are talked about after 6 months? None.

So, I was imagining the backlash when it looked like James Gunn wouldn't be directing Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3? Or that Disney's old Aladdin movie is still a classic decades later? Or that Looney Tunes has remained a staple all these years? Get real, man.

Wonder woman 84 is getting seriously criticised for the cartoony look that mcu movies are known for , a movie like X1 that destroyed the narrative that comic books should be cartoony just gets more memorable point in 2021. its logic.

More like lunacy. WW84's success or lack thereof has no bearing on any future X-Men movies. They're not even being made by the same studios! You're going to have to grow out of this mindset that "funny = bad" and that there's only one way to do things well.

Logan only finished off what X1 did, is why I even said RDJ Iron Man is not as iconic as Hugh Jackman Logan because X1 could at least grow to Logan. Iron Man 1 could not.

Think I liked Jackman as Wolverine better, but I'm not so sure that RJD's Iron Man is less iconic; unlike Jackman, RDJ forever reinvented how his character is portrayed across all media.

What ‘’naysayers’’.

You, for one. "Always with you, it cannot be done," as the Jedi Master once said.

Please look at Marvel'S recent announcement of spiderman 3 and some are just melting down...

Looked online, everything I found was either positive, or at least intrigued about where things would go. Frankly, you're the only person melting down that I've seen (outside of the few posters who seem to be unusually angry that the MCU movies adapted the Ultimate Spidey/Iron Man dynamic from the comics). Maybe, and I get that this's a crazy idea, that most people happen to like the MCU Spidey movies and you're just not one of them?

...how Holland's Spiderman has yet to even headline his own movies.

As the Lying Cat would say," Liar." (Seriously, where did the myth that Holland wasn't the lead actor come from?)

AND Why should X-Men be like winter solider? Why cant it be like an x-men film .

Facetiousness is not a good look for you; to repeat so you can understand it; the MCU has made movies that were more serious, and, most importantly, alter the tone to fit the characters and the premise that they're supposed to be. You have failed to demonstrate why they wouldn't follow that game plan for an X-Men movie.

Why a downgrade movie?

Fox only wishes they made as many X-Men movies that were as good or better then The Winter Solider.

Winter Solider and Antman also are made the same way. they have the same VFX and cinematography from the house in style of marvel.

I'd explain why that's all nonsense, but you'd need to understand how film works to get it.

IF people are not scared why the presumed negativity, Avengers and Justice League may have been rivals for years in comics but Endgame is a low crossover bar in movies, all what Snyder has to do in make his cut even near as good as Watchmen and its over.

As I recall, Watchmen got mixed reviews, Endgame did not (and had a lot more pressure on it succeeding).

The first avengers movie is one of the movies that aged the worst, it’s the comic film that is mostly significant for the common hated final 3rd act CGI plot that even WW 1 gets criticised for. Usually this is only tolerable if with all that destruction. There was realism, outstanding cgi and stakes. Avengers is not really all that but Man of steel was.

Source please. (Avengers has consistently remained popular since it came out and I think you're mixing up the "hated final 3rd act CGI plot" with Man of Steel or BvS.)

The only goal avengers succeed in was to connect different heroes together, however this is not something this is impressive to many directors, its not even impressive to many comic fans who were fans of A-List comic heroes like spiderman or batman.

Remember, intent vs. execution. (Also, Avengers 1 was quite the gamble at the time and Marvel Studios has reaped the rewards for pulling it off. Granted, given how they've perfected makign large cast movies since, it does feel smaller then it did back in 2012, but they were smart to get the characters to work and put enough effort in things to make it stand the test of time.)

If the director of spiderman 2 jumped ship to MCU, then it shows MCU movies are mass manufactured for real because we have to ask, why are the VFX of MCU not as artistically drawn out like Spiderman 2.

See Guardians of the Galaxy, Doctor Strange, Thor: Ragnarok if need a refresher.

I have lost track of the directors who respect Snyder and don’t care for Marvel . Cameron just happen to be the most popular one.

So?

When did Snyder fans bully people?

Look up any of the news articles on the subject.

Please see the fans pov who have spoken so favourable about the classics.

Hipsterism, huh?

MCU Spiderman compared to the classic?

Raimi Spider-Man seems to be the gold standard, but, as stated before, the rabid haters that you describe just don't seem to exist.

Rebooted star wars movies to the classics?

Force Awakens, Last Jedi, Rogue One, Rebels, and The Mandalorian were well received, to put it mildly. Solo and Rise of Skywalker not so much. Outstanding batting average, considering the fanbase they had to deal with.

...the part about using words like cult and bullying, for fans raising legitimate question about a series they love does not fly.

Well, that makes one of us.

[HsssH]

Yes, I've come to be unable to understand the "realism" argument of Snyder's movies. Especially when it's as guilty at picking and choosing when it wants to be realistic and when it wants to give into "coolness first, reality second" like any superhero story, Like Superman tackling/flying that terrorist leader through the wall which would realistically result in severe injuries if not death, but we're meant to believe Superman when he says he didn't kill anyone. And I do because I think that was the intent, but it's no doubt sloppy.

This Robin also apparently wore the shorts into battle, Batman can throw a massive crate from over his shoulder without any strain, the "grounded" movie still ends with an invincible alien and a Amazon warrior battling a CGI cave troll, etc. All of this would ironically be a lot easier to take seriously if the film was not so far up its own ass trying to be deep and serious.

I really hate this understanding of what is "realism" in superhero movies. It is not about someone being able to throw heavy shit or battling CGI monsters or shooting lasers from eyes. it is about character interactions and reaction/fallout to what is going on.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I really hate this understanding of what is "realism" in superhero movies. It is not about someone being able to throw heavy shit or battling CGI monsters or shooting lasers from eyes. it is about character interactions and reaction/fallout to what is going on.

It's more than that it's also the visual language with how films are made. The more real something looks the closer it is to reality, however, Snyder's not doing this he just thinks he does. Nolan does this in his films, Snyder engages in surrealist cynicism. Snyder's darker tones work in theory, in practice it comes offers being edgy and the scenes being made are just as ridiculous as movies which embrace their comic book silliness.

For example, let's compare Nolan's TDK with Snyder's B vs S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FW9Sqxb-4o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7GWGLkPepU

Which one looks more realistic? Nolan's, in my opinion. He's excellent at convincing audiences that silly things his protagonists do feel real. It's why everyone didn't catch onto the wild things Joker did which he shouldn't have been able to do in the real world and barely anyone noticed watching TDK. Unlike Snyder who breaks the immersion when Batman throws crates like nothing when he's supposed to just a really fit bodybuilder in rodent suit, oh yeah, someone stabs him with a dagger which goes in deep and he never acknowledges the pain or the fact he's going to bleed to death until he patches that wound.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I really hate this understanding of what is "realism" in superhero movies. It is not about someone being able to throw heavy shit or battling CGI monsters or shooting lasers from eyes. it is about character interactions and reaction/fallout to what is going on.

Frankly, in that regard, Marvel blows Snyder out of the water then.

Because Cap, Scott, Tony etc all felt like real people to me that I could empathize with, see as people. Even Thor, a magical Thunder God Prince, was easier to connect with and understand than Snyder's numb Superman.

Same with many of his villains. Loki told jokes yes, but he was clearly a lot of pain.

Zod and Luthor chewed the scenery. No thanks.

[marshal88]

[SiegePerilous02]

I really hate this understanding of what is "realism" in superhero movies. It is not about someone being able to throw heavy shit or battling CGI monsters or shooting lasers from eyes. it is about character interactions and reaction/fallout to what is going on.

Well it doesn't seem to be working out with that either.

The more serious and self important the film acts, the less slack people are going to cut it when it decides to get silly or take short cuts. Like the titular fight happening in part because Clark is unable to just say "my mother has been kidnapped" and see where things go from there.

[HsssH]

Thats not the point. Point is that just because someone shots lasers from his eyes it doesn't mean that movie can't be "realistic".