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  1. #301
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    No they would not be forced too because Oscars dont care about comic films, however the oscars wont change what they like to see in movies. their diversity push wont change that and that means more films about slavery, the holocaust, LGBT themes, War movies, would now even get more chance at the Oscars. this themes would not be a big problem for Snyder, they will for Feige though.
    I think they would be. He has not shown a deft hand at being capable of dealing with any of those topics.
    And just including a surface level look at them in a movie isn't enough to warrant serious Oscar consideration.

    And gain...19 nominations for the MCU and none for him. He is evidently not doing anything they care about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I think Morrison run of Batman came before New XMEN, any...does not matter. Morrsion is in a higher class of comic writer who had a no nonsense kid friendly policy approach to comics books
    No I have both runs in trade, and I remember the first issue of their Batman run coming out like a year or two after New X-Men wrapped up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    And you are right, that Disney wont capture it but this reason is because, disney can only really make one type of film. Singer did better trying to recapture DOFP and God Loves, Man Kills with X2 and DOFP films because he had more to work with, more than Disney would have given him in the first place.
    A lot of the current Krakoa stuff seems poised to make it to the big screen, and I think Hickman has a working relationship with Feige.

    I don't think the MCU will be lacking for stuff to adapt.


    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    They did not really have lukewarm reception because the superhero film critical genre is now worth-lessssss than it used to, man of steel is as lukewarm to anyone that feels Thor Ragnarok had great reviews that should be compared to 20 years ago comic films like X1 or Batman Begins.

    Comic book reception is meaningless now. there no longer exist a strong fine line of lukewarm reception and good reception.
    Sounds like sour grapes to me.

  2. #302
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The "yellow spandex" joke has really aged poorly, considering how bland and ugly those leather suits became in comparison to what we can get for CBM costumes these days.

    If the MCU can make the X-Men look like the X-Men, they will automatically surpass Fox.
    Didn't have a huge problem with the black leathers, but I will concede they could've been a lot better (maybe like Elektra's redesign in the Always Bet on Red mini; black jumpsuit with colorful accessories to give it a splash).

    However, seeing how Marvel Studios has a good track record at adapting character costumes into something that works on the big screen (not to mention knowing which ones don't work at all, which the X-Men have a lot of), we shouldn't have much to worry about.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think they would be. He has not shown a deft hand at being capable of dealing with any of those topics.
    Will second that; of what I've seen of Snyder's work, his biggest downfalls are the sloppy writing, esp. in how he tries to make his movies about something. He actually reminds me of Michael Bay in that sense; they're weak writers, but have a strong sense of visual style (I should concede that Snyder's visual sense is weak compared to the masters of the craft, but it's still clear that's his stronger suit).

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    A lot of the current Krakoa stuff seems poised to make it to the big screen...
    God forbid.


    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    And just including a surface level look at them in a movie isn't enough to warrant serious Oscar consideration.

    And gain...19 nominations for the MCU and none for him. He is evidently not doing anything they care about.
    Yeah, why are we denying reality here? Also have to say, seeing that Logan and Joker got an Oscar nominations, that seems to suggest something, like it's not enough to make a "serious" comic book movie, but you have to make one that's actually a good movie or something.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  3. #303
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    I don’t want DC films to be like Marvel films, in the sense that they go all-in on the shared universe. Plus the tone too, I guess.

    Also didn’t Marvel have tv cartoons and animated movies that had nothing to do with the MCU? They certainly do now. I don’t know what point he’s trying to make with that. I guess it’s not to the same extent as DC though.

    Also are people asking DC films to be “like” Marvel films, or are they asking them to be as successful as Marvel films?
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 06-23-2021 at 06:51 AM.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    No they would not be forced too because Oscars dont care about comic films, however the oscars wont change what they like to see in movies. their diversity push wont change that and that means more films about slavery, the holocaust, LGBT themes, War movies, would now even get more chance at the Oscars. this themes would not be a big problem for Snyder, they will for Feige though.



    I think Morrison run of Batman came before New XMEN, any...does not matter. Morrsion is in a higher class of comic writer who had a no nonsense kid friendly policy approach to comics books.


    And you are right, that Disney wont capture it but this reason is because, disney can only really make one type of film. Singer did better trying to recapture DOFP and God Loves, Man Kills with X2 and DOFP films because he had more to work with, more than Disney would have given him in the first place.


    They did not really have lukewarm reception because the superhero film critical genre is now worth-lessssss than it used to, man of steel is as lukewarm to anyone that feels Thor Ragnarok had great reviews that should be compared to 20 years ago comic films like X1 or Batman Begins.

    Comic book reception is meaningless now. there no longer exist a strong fine line of lukewarm reception and good reception.
    Did the first X-Men movie any Oscars? Because by your logic adressing the holocaust makes a movie "serious" and makes it oscar-Worthy. But seeing you think that just being dark puts a movie into Oscar range makes me wonder. By that logic Snyder would have won an Oscar for every movie he made so far^^

  5. #305
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago_bastard View Post
    The only awards Snyder movies will be in contention for next year are the Razzies and Army of the Dead should have a serious shot at getting some of them.
    Fully agree.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  6. #306
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Fully agree.
    I doubt Army of the dead will be nominated for razzies, for now Army of the dead looks stronger than what we have seen from the trailers of Shang CHI and Eternals.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-23-2021 at 02:11 PM.

  7. #307
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    I don’t want DC films to be like Marvel films, in the sense that they go all-in on the shared universe. Plus the tone too, I guess.

    Also didn’t Marvel have tv cartoons and animated movies that had nothing to do with the MCU? They certainly do now. I don’t know what point he’s trying to make with that. I guess it’s not to the same extent as DC though.

    Also are people asking DC films to be “like” Marvel films, or are they asking them to be as successful as Marvel films?
    I think these are the most common thoughts.

    I figured DC was going to go all Brave and the Bold and team-up heroes before solo movies. THEN jump into a JL-type movie.

    I just want some good DC films. If they end of sharing a universe, then so be it. If not, that's okay, too.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  8. #308
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think they would be. He has not shown a deft hand at being capable of dealing with any of those topics.
    And just including a surface level look at them in a movie isn't enough to warrant serious Oscar consideration.

    And gain...19 nominations for the MCU and none for him. He is evidently not doing anything they care about.

    .
    Okay. only serious comic films will matter in important categories though
    No I have both runs in trade, and I remember the first issue of their Batman run coming out like a year or two after New X-Men wrapped up.
    Okay
    A lot of the current Krakoa stuff seems poised to make it to the big screen, and I think Hickman has a working relationship with Feige.
    Krakoa was their next ''thing'' I am talking more about their 65 years history of stories. Jumping into Krakoa first in movies feels like a white wash of the xmen universe.
    I don't think the MCU will be lacking for stuff to adapt.

    I dont feel the issue was lack, the issue was striping XMEN down like they did Spiderman in the MCU in general to pander more to children in way that feels too superficial. with x-men is just problematic , I don't think MCU will adapt many xmen stories freely as the 90s cartoons did, because their 90s is actually a lot more mature and genuinely darker than the entire MCU universe.

    in fact this issue was already discussed on XBooks today, where someone brought up Disney's style and found it worrying, I am guessing the person is watching Loki, which I am not but I did see Wandavision.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...rated-PG/page2

    Many X-Fans do share genuine concerns about their live actions films and tv shows.

    Sounds like sour grapes to me.
    No it is truly not about sour grapes. Look at Joker, you can argue the review were lukewarm but still among the best films in recent years/

    Look at X-MEN after 21 years, it's a film still very praised for bringing depth, maturity to comic films, it is a film very hard to dismiss like the action fun comedy movies we have now

    Look at man of steel, controversial sure but still a movie that starts a conversation and like Snyder said started a movement that wont go away. man of steel gets under people skin with many feelings. it is the definition of what art is.

    It is really not about sour grapes.lol superhero reception is not concrete anymore, since they have lost so much with subjective and objective criticism in a spectrum, this is just the reality, since no cares Shazam has better reviews than the JL Cut or Man of Steel, Shazam does not have any big impact on the DC movies. Snyder does and his impact as of 2021 is far more positive thanks to the JL Cut and the more positive revaluation of Man of Steel that has happened over the years.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-23-2021 at 03:33 PM.

  9. #309
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Look at Joker, you can argue the review were lukewarm but still among the best films of the year
    Joker's initial reviews were largely VERY positive.

    https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/joker-first-reviews/


    Look at man of steel, controversial sure but still a movie that starts a conversation and like Snyder said started a movement that wont go away. man of steel gets under people skin in many feelings. it is the definition of what art is.
    I think more people have an issue with what came AFTER MoS.

    I had no problems with MoS and was looking forward to the fallout of Superman's actions, but it wasn't followed up on very well. It kind of felt swept away in BvS & JL to a certain extent.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 06-23-2021 at 02:21 PM.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  10. #310
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    I don’t want DC films to be like Marvel films, in the sense that they go all-in on the shared universe. Plus the tone too, I guess.
    ?
    No one wanted that either but the critics and maybe some to many MCU fans not precisely Marvel comic fans. Take it back 14-16 years. Spiderman 2 and Batman Begins were released in just shy of a year both landmark Marvel and DC films and different in style. Comic fans loved both and welcomed the different styles. This back then was when film making mattered and was the primary factor of comic book reception.

    Also didn’t Marvel have tv cartoons and animated movies that had nothing to do with the MCU? They certainly do now. I don’t know what point he’s trying to make with that. I guess it’s not to the same extent as DC though.
    Yes and NO. While it was never official back then that things were connected, disney started letting that affect their tv and cartoons. for instance, they never gave Wolverine and the xmen a season 2, despite the fact it was a well received series, also they sold the idea that agents of Shield and their Netflix shows were part of the MCU when that was not really the case.


    Also are people asking DC films to be “like” Marvel films, or are they asking them to be as successful as Marvel films?
    No, although the ignorance surrounding DC films bugs me.

    DC films were already successful before the MCU, despite the fact two people here once said to me, Iron Man 3 was the first film to gross over a billion for a single character it was actually TDK and TDKR

    Reeves Superman were very successful and I think they surpass a billion dollars in 2021 by inflation

    So DC factually had success before MCU , they did not need to chase MCU success.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-23-2021 at 03:34 PM.

  11. #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Also are people asking DC films to be “like” Marvel films, or are they asking them to be as successful as Marvel films?
    It's a way for Snyder and his fans to avoid engaging with any actual criticism. Any flaws are dismissed as "you're only complaining because they're not exactly the same as Marvel movies."

  12. #312
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I doubt Army of the dead will be nominated for razzies, for now Army of the dead looks stronger than what we have seen from the trailers of Shang CHI and Eternals.
    Given your opinion is also that Snyder's DC films are Oscar worthy despite none of them having been nominated for a single Oscar, that's likely just a case of YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Okay. only serious comic films will matter in important categories though
    None of Snyder's films have gotten any of those either. In fact, with the exception of Ledger's much deserved Best Supporting Actor win, all the categories The Dark Knight trilogy movies were nominated for were technical aspects like Best Editing, Best Cinematography, Best Costume Design and the like. The only other category TDK won in other than Ledger's victory was Sound Editing.

    Even Logan, which is significantly better than anything in the DCEU, just got a Best Adapted Screenplay nomination, IIRC. Joker is the exception, not the rule. The dichotomy you keep trying to draw between MCU and DC Films and which one is favored by serious critics and the Oscars simply doesn't exist in real life.
    Last edited by Holt; 06-23-2021 at 02:42 PM.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I doubt Army of the dead will be nominated for razzies, for now Army of the dead looks stronger than what we have seen from the trailers of Shang CHI and Eternals.
    Have you seen a Snyder cut of Army of the Dead that we haven't?

  14. #314
    Mighty Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    No, although the ignorance surrounding DC films bugs me.

    DC films were already successful before the MCU, despite the fact two people here once said to me, Iron Man 3 was the first film to gross over a billion for a single character it was actually TDK and TDKR
    In my case it was an ignorance of the movie box office in general. I can't be bothered to be invested in that sort of detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    So DC factually had success before MCU , they did not need to chase MCU success.
    Perhaps if Warners had paid more attention to chasing MCU, they might have hired more talented movie makers than Snyder to spearhead their effort. It's never a good look when you hire a hack to build a franchise

  15. #315
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    I don’t want DC films to be like Marvel films, in the sense that they go all-in on the shared universe. Plus the tone too, I guess.

    Also didn’t Marvel have tv cartoons and animated movies that had nothing to do with the MCU? They certainly do now. I don’t know what point he’s trying to make with that. I guess it’s not to the same extent as DC though.

    Also are people asking DC films to be “like” Marvel films, or are they asking them to be as successful as Marvel films?
    I also don't want them to be the same. We already have Marvel movies. We don't need every comic company to do movies the same way.

    I will say I think Jason Mamoa does a comedic take really well, or at least injecting a smirking sense of humor. Shazam stayed true to it's earliest origins as as being very oriented towards children. So, even within the DC movies and the Marvel movies, they don't have to all be the same.

    The DC movies have mostly been quite successful, including and perhaps especially the ones that get the most flack, namely MoS and B v S. So I'm not sure on that last question. Some people are asking that they be like Marvel movies, whatever that means. I get that MCU movies, with rare exceptions, have a comedic undertone and some it's a blatant overtone. But not all the same. However, I think some people are not so much asking that DCEU movies be as successful as the MCU but they are using the fact that the DCEU, while very successful, still isn't up to the MCU level of success, as a psychological lever or debate tactic to insist that the DCEU should be like the MCU because they want it to be more like the MCU, again, whatever they mean by that.
    Power with Girl is better.

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