Zack Snyder Explains Why DC Movies Can't Be Like Marvel Movies

[Castle]

As has already been stated, opinions are not facts. However, even if this movie didn't fit what you wanted it to me (and bear in mind thing of your's as been one, protracted "I want..." from beginning to end), that doesn't mean that any of the previous or future movies could fit the bill. Heck, all your pontificating that Marvel Studios "cannot" do stuff is nonsensical, given that we have seen movies that did do just that, not to mention confirmation that there aren't inherently any limits.

You want to prove your case? Actually produce a substantive fact (like how it's been confirmed that movies under Disney's oversight do not depict smoking). Otherwise, it's just another "I want," and we know how little that has to do with the reality of the situation.

It is fact that marvel unlike Snyder DC's films or even comic films he has done, as I am adding his watchmen film cannot have certain themes in their films because Disney has restriction on them. that is not an opinion. Reason if you got on this thread much earlier, when you tried to sell the narrative that many people would wish for mcu so called good reviews, I sincerely asked why?

You don't think we should just listen to the 15% of reviewers who didn't like it?

This is a review. It’s entirely subjective.

Having an opinion isn’t nonsense, what’s nonsense is misrepresenting what real people state in interviews. Eg Bob Iger saying he didn’t want to buy Marvel because it’s too edgy.

Using that for an argument is nonsense because he never said that.

I did not misinterpret Iger. His words were pretty simple to understand. Iger factually thought marvel was too Edgy.

read all the reviews both those that hate and love it from many of this unprofessional critics, it all the same generic thing they say about all the MCU films, this is why comic book reception have lost credibility. The JL Cut reviews are stronger and more objectively critically acclaimed so far, not to mention Snyder as a director was the focus. Reading the black widow reveiws, these critics are not even mentioning who the director is, hence the issue with a lot of this cooperate made movies that all get the same template reviews. Directors have never mattered in the MCU.


Lastly we see the little substance here of this comic films, jumping to numbers of 85-15. it is the qualitative scope of the reviews that matters, although at this stage if comic films are heavy action movies, Filled with CGI and humor , they should be cloaking at rotten on rotten tomatoes. X-MEN 3 was far more acclaimed than this 16 years ago.

[Castle]

As someone who once upon a time reviewed movies, absolutely you shouldn't listen to them. A reviewer's tastes will not always be the same as yours.

I think we have some agreement about another movie series like harry potter. not sure their rt scores had any meaning here. but one thing is clear about that series from critics and fans and those that read or not read the books. The main positive of that series is that the series grew both in story and film making and the reviews reflected that in full scope. I cannot even remember the last time any harry potter film kept on getting the same reviews of action and humor or just generic cooperate film making, since the series had mostly none. which by the way is the only standard now of judging MCU and some DC films. I am still looking at you Wonder Woman 84.

Here is a scene from the second to the last film that is very much acclaimed for all the right joyful reason. By the 7th film, it was a joyful watch as a regular fan and a film student myself to see how the series had grown so much with scenes like this.



MCU films took on the opposite direction of what made the harry potter series an academically artistically formidable series, but some how they keep magically getting good reviews because their movies are very funny and has lots of action? maybe that is subjective to some as a good thing, but objectively I think it sends the wrong message from people who are reviewing this films. But again, this is why other films like Snyder's Man of Steel only keeps getting better with age because Snyder took a more Harry Potter approach with the Superman franchise.

I am going to say this and some will say I am nuts, Many of the backlash against Snyder and his DC films, a lot of the times was about jealousy.

[numberthirty]

...

I am going to say this and some will say I am nuts, Many of the backlash against Snyder and his DC films, a lot of the times was about jealousy.

There is a difference between someone being what is in blue and someone just rattling off things that don't have much objective proof to go along with them.

Since that assertion doesn't really seem like it has much in the way of provided objective proof to point to it actually being the case?

I'd say it looks a lot like the latter.

[chicago_bastard]

The JL Cut reviews are stronger and more objectively critically acclaimed so far, not to mention Snyder as a director was the focus. Reading the black widow reveiws, these critics are not even mentioning who the director is, hence the issue with a lot of this cooperate made movies that all get the same template reviews. Directors have never mattered in the MCU.

ZSJL: RT all critics: 71% (average rating: 6.7), RT top critics: 52% (ar: 5.9), metacritic: 54/100

BW: RT all critics: 85% (ar: 7.2), RT top critics: 79% (ar: 7.4) metacritic: 69/100

As for Cate Shortland not getting mentioned:

While I’m still not quite sure why the movie needed to exist in theory, I do think that Cate Shortland crafted a really fascinating and entertaining film. Black Widow of course ends with a very big Marvel movie set piece, but throughout much of this film director Cate Shortland brings us down to earth. Starting with scenes in 90s Ohio and even in the modern day, she takes a much more grounded approach and one that emphasizes character, even in action moments.

The production represents a huge leap in scale for Shortland, who made her name with the intimately observed Somersault before segueing to the Holocaust drama Lore and the psychological abduction thriller Berlin Syndrome. Those features all explored the lives of young women with sensitivity and genuine curiosity, something the Australian director continues to do here, adding unexpectedly rich dimensions to a genre that often shows too little interest in character.

The director, Australia’s Cate Shortland (“Somersault”), works in unvarnished closeup and establishes a mood of lurching, desultory anxiety that’s closer to Russian neorealism than to the Russo brothers.

Directed by Cate Shortland with propulsive excitement, humor and pleasingly understated emotional interludes, this standalone proves a stellar vehicle for Scarlett Johansson’s Natasha Romanoff.

Australian director Cate Shortland's unique blend of goofy humor and exemplary action scenes both leading to world defining, impressively femme-charged change.

There’s an art to delaying the inevitable. By the god of thunder, director Cate Shortland demonstrates that art in this Marvel spin-off, which basically functions as a wondrous, two-hour-long goodbye.

Action-packed, funny, and at times surprisingly gut-wrenching, Cate Shortland's vision for the MCU is bold, empowering, and utterly unmissable.

The opening is unbelievable, the action exhilarating and expertly choreographed, and Cate Shortland quickly establishes herself as one of the MCU’s finest filmmakers.

Cate Shortland provides great direction, rounded out by Gabriel Beristain's cinematography.

I was stunned by the heaviness, brutality, and thoughtfulness. It made all of Natasha’s other appearances better. Cate Shortland directed the hell out of it, and Scarlett Johansson turns in her best Black Widow performance.

The film’s turns between brutal action, thrilling intrigue and hilarious yet heartbreaking family dynamics were deftly handled by Shortland.



If I were payed a buck for every time I correct one of your outrageously false claims I'd be a millionaire soon. Just stop it already.

[Castle]

ZSJL: RT all critics:

overall reviews are still pretty generic like many of the recent general comic films, What I almost find odd reading this reviews is, critics seem nicer to Wonder Woman 84 on some parts but still gave that an overall fail, compared to what they are given Black Widow. Black Widow so far from its reviews has nothing new or brings nothing new. As was said with Antman, age of ultron and captain marvel. which black widow from what I can see, is getting compared to at least from watching Grace Randolph's reviews and she is a shill for all female comic films .

Grace even said Black Widow is more animated and cartoonish than wonder woman. Now this I have to see for myself. round everything all up, you again are getting the same action comedies MCU narrative that they do all the time and DC also tried to copy. this is why no one listen to most of these critics anymore.

I dont doubt the score of black widow would be higher than the JL CUT, However the Snyder cut has more going for it, from it's own reviews compared to black widow reviews . the Snyder cut also is beyond the standard action comedy that marvel has done many times and now again with Black Widow. That advantage is going to greatly matter.

There is a difference between someone being what is in blue and someone just rattling off things that don't have much objective proof to go along with them.

Since that assertion doesn't really seem like it has much in the way of provided objective proof to point to it actually being the case?

I'd say it looks a lot like the latter.

It can be objective since comic films or even their source material have grown beyond primarily driven by action, basic humour and having a basic generic comic book story, that is the proof. safe light hearted action driven comedies comic films that remove compelling themes are not the highest calibre of the comic genre. they never have and never will be, not even in the comics not even in cartoons either. Adam West 60s Batman may be a 60s TV classic but it is not and will never be among a top 3 batman greatest adaption objectively on scholastic terms. Not when there are series like Batman TAS, TDK or Animated movies like Under the Redhood even fighting for a top 5 spot.


I said it from the onset even before the release of the Snyder Cut release, many of the people who were so against the film, most was fear that Snyder would be vindicated for not going the light hearted action comedy route and Whedon trying to make his Avengers 3 with Justice League was not the right direction for DC to go. All that has been been proven pretty correct after the cut was released, also especially if Marvel ends up with 4 light hearted action comedy films this year they do all the time.

Looks like they are 1 down out of the 4 judging from Black Widow's reviews. they could be 2 out of 4, if everything about the shang chi trailers and what the actor has said, that the movies action are the main drive turn out to be true, maybe 3 of 4, if Eternals has constant jokes like leading the Avengers and I could say 4 or 4, if Spiderman No way home is like the first 2 Spiderman films. If all these films follows the pattern as they are predictably likely to do. The JL Cut will just be a Joker or Deadpool or a DOFP or a Man of Steel in the midst of your standard Marvel Disney action- comedy films.

So Zack Snyder is in a very good place as a comic book director in 2021. The JL Cut been so not like the Marvel movies, is a big plus for him when we get the year end feedback for comic book movies in 2021. Honestly Snyder is just having a good year as deserved, not to mention it is good the media is listening to him with a lot more respect when he talks about comic films.

[numberthirty]

Not a single word of that bit so much as suggests that any of the backlash against Snyder is secretly about jealousy.

Never mind actually doing anything like turning up actual objective proof that the whole thing is secretly about jealously.

[numberthirty]

Yep.

Everything about this guy screams "Obviously Respected Comic Book Film Auteur..."

https://www.nme.com/news/film/zack-s...y-film-2979300

Zack Snyder says he’s open to directing possible ‘Rick And Morty’ film

[Username taken]

It is fact that marvel unlike Snyder DC's films or even comic films he has done, as I am adding his watchmen film cannot have certain themes in their films because Disney has restriction on them. that is not an opinion. Reason if you got on this thread much earlier, when you tried to sell the narrative that many people would wish for mcu so called good reviews, I sincerely asked why?






I did not misinterpret Iger. His words were pretty simple to understand. Iger factually thought marvel was too Edgy.

read all the reviews both those that hate and love it from many of this unprofessional critics, it all the same generic thing they say about all the MCU films, this is why comic book reception have lost credibility. The JL Cut reviews are stronger and more objectively critically acclaimed so far, not to mention Snyder as a director was the focus. Reading the black widow reveiws, these critics are not even mentioning who the director is, hence the issue with a lot of this cooperate made movies that all get the same template reviews. Directors have never mattered in the MCU.


Lastly we see the little substance here of this comic films, jumping to numbers of 85-15. it is the qualitative scope of the reviews that matters, although at this stage if comic films are heavy action movies, Filled with CGI and humor , they should be cloaking at rotten on rotten tomatoes. X-MEN 3 was far more acclaimed than this 16 years ago.

Iger said Michael Eisner wanted to buy Marvel but Disney execs at the time said no.

This wasn’t the first time Marvel has been on Disney’s radar," Iger recalls. "Early in my time working for Michael, I attended a staff lunch in which he floated the idea of acquiring them. A handful of executives around the table objected. 'Marvel was too edgy,' they said. It would tarnish the Disney brand."

He continues, "There was an assumption at the time -- internally, and among members of the board -- that Disney was a single, monolithic brand, and all of our businesses existed beneath the Disney umbrella. I sensed Michael knew better, but any negative reaction to the brand, or suggestion that it wasn’t being managed well, he took personally."

Of course, the higher ups at Disney would change their tune eventually. Eisner stepped down as CEO in 2005, with Iger taking his place. Marvel Studios kicked off the MCU in 2008 with Iron Man, which was quickly followed by The Incredible Hulk. Disney acquired Marvel one year later and the rest, as they say, is history.

https://www.cbr.com/why-disney-didnt...oner-too-edgy/


You actually posted a link to the article earlier, go back read it. He didn’t factually say that he felt Marvel was too edgy. That’s false. If he felt like that, he wouldn’t have overseen the purchase of the company.

And no X-men 3 didn't get a better reception than BW. X-men 3 got 57% critics score and 61% from audiences. Not sure why you are saying it got more acclaim than BW when that’s clearly not the case. I'm not going even going to talk about BW now because none of us have seen the movie but it's getting an excellent reception from the professional critics which is a good sign.

Like I said earlier, you can hate the Marvel movies or even their film making process, that’s very much your right. But when you misrepresent what people say and/or cite wrong information eg X-men 3’s RT score, that’s when your argument gets called out.

[Username taken]

I think we have some agreement about another movie series like harry potter. not sure their rt scores had any meaning here. but one thing is clear about that series from critics and fans and those that read or not read the books. The main positive of that series is that the series grew both in story and film making and the reviews reflected that in full scope. I cannot even remember the last time any harry potter film kept on getting the same reviews of action and humor or just generic cooperate film making, since the series had mostly none. which by the way is the only standard now of judging MCU and some DC films. I am still looking at you Wonder Woman 84.

Here is a scene from the second to the last film that is very much acclaimed for all the right joyful reason. By the 7th film, it was a joyful watch as a regular fan and a film student myself to see how the series had grown so much with scenes like this.



MCU films took on the opposite direction of what made the harry potter series an academically artistically formidable series, but some how they keep magically getting good reviews because their movies are very funny and has lots of action? maybe that is subjective to some as a good thing, but objectively I think it sends the wrong message from people who are reviewing this films. But again, this is why other films like Snyder's Man of Steel only keeps getting better with age because Snyder took a more Harry Potter approach with the Superman franchise.

I am going to say this and some will say I am nuts, Many of the backlash against Snyder and his DC films, a lot of the times was about jealousy.

Provide just a single bit of evidence that the criticism of Snyder was about jealousy. Or even anything that remotely supports that claim.

And why should anyone be jealous of Snyder? He's not that successful..yet.

[Castle]

Iger said Michael Eisner wanted to buy Marvel but Disney execs at the time said no.

You actually posted a link to the article earlier, go back read it. He didn’t factually say that he felt Marvel was too edgy. That’s false. If he felt like that, he wouldn’t have overseen the purchase of the company..

Okay. But anyone is still free to keep saying that Disney did not take the edge away from marvel. their phase 1 movies will disagree.

And no X-men 3 got 57% critics score and 61% from audiences. Not sure why you are saying it got more acclaim than BW when that’s clearly not the case.

Like I said earlier, you can hate the Marvel movies or even their film making process, that’s very much your right. But when you misrepresent what people say and/or cite wrong information eg X-men 3’s RT score, that’s when your argument gets called out

X-MEN 3 was mixed at best in 2006 this was a time when comic films, the standard was much higher. comic films dont get ''good review'' for been funny and having action 24/7 as they do now. There is a reason that era of comic films, Spiderman 2, X2, X-,MEN, Batman Begins, Blade 2 are called classics of the genre. No one dismiss this movies as flavour of the week or another generic action comic film as we see now with recent films.

X-MEN 3 was quite challenging than anything MCU has ever done with the cure story arc, it was not a light hearted film, Disney cannot do that story in their films as it can be best done. X3 would have been a great film if they had removed the phoenix storyline and taken more cues form past films for not having much action, so why do action driven get good reviews in 2021? LOL.

Most of the stuff that was acclaimed in X3 as Grammer's beast and having uncomfortable mature themes that shows comic films are not just action and comedy alone is why even now X3 will be more respected as a comic film even with the issues. this is an example of a theme that would never been in an MCU as stated by that black widow review.



Scenes like this are what pushing the comic book story genre. not recent high RT score of nothing. Also remember black panther is the highest rated RT movie by numbers a movie with some of the poorest done cgi in comic film and a plot not even as compelling as some of the phase 1 films. Zack Snyder's Man of Steel was a more compelling film than Black Panther with superior VFX, sound mixing and cinematography and the themes of Man of Steel are more heavily addressed , this is why this Marvel narrative critical reviews of man of steel was that the movie was depressing.

Had man of steel come out around 2003-2006. that would not even be a point because films like X2 or Batman Begins have already addressed similar themes Depression and high takes terrorism as Zod was portrayed in Man of Steel are serious adult themes that can be addressed in a comic film as Snyder proved it It not fun or comedic like Avengers and Loki made it to be in Avengers 2021 ...oh and I think that film has a 93%.

Please I think this discussion with me needs go back to actual depth of comic films not superficial narratives of rt that just explains why critics no longer have credibility. After all by RT most MCU or even comic films are ''better'' than the Green Mile. which is the best Stephen King movie adaption to date. lol and themes and story of the green mile is even more mature than many XMEN and DC films.

I Don't need RT scores as that is not film, that is just fake hype. I need interesting themes and director driven movies that makes me wants to root for directors and writers, even if I may not agree 100% with their choices.

What chances are there, that Black Widow or any marvel film will have a similar Cyborg story line from the JL Cut or even have VFX that rival Lord of the rings? Yeah I doubt we will need RT scores of this one. If Grace Randolph's reviews are correct that Black Widow is even more cartoonish and animated than wonder woman 84 and she was right about WW 84.

[Kirby101]

First, reviewers talk about Zach Snyder in their reviews of Justice League; the SNYDER Cut. Wow that is so surprising!

And who's jealous of Snyder and why?

[Username taken]

Okay. But anyone is still free to keep saying that Disney did not take the edge away from marvel. their phase 1 movies will disagree.

There's no evidence Disney did anything to change the tone of the movies. Thor 1 and 2 don't have different tones, Captain America 1 and 2 don't have different tones, Iron man 1 and 2 don't have different tones, Avengers 1 and 2 don't have different tones.

X-MEN 3 was mixed at best in 2006 but remember, this was a time when comic films, the standard was much higher. comic films dont get ''good review'' for been funny and having action 24/7 as they do now. There is a reason that era of comic films, Spiderman 2, X2, X-,MEN, Batman Begins, Blade 2 are called classics of the genre. No one dismiss this movies as flavour of the week or another generic action comic film as we see now with recent films.

X-men 3 was a rushed production. Fox really botched the X-men series which is why so many of them were badly received.

And any evidence that comic book films get better reviews because they are funny now. Raimi's first two Spider-man movies had healthy doses of humor and got great reviews. Without any evidence to support that comic book movies are getting better reviews because they are funny, that's a false claim. A lot of serious superhero movies get good reviews even as we speak.

X-MEN 3 story was quite challenging than anything MCU has ever done with the cure story arc, it was not a light hearted film, Disney cannot do that story in their films as it can be best done. X3 would have been a great film if they had removed the phoenix storyline and taken more cues form past films for not having much action, so why do action driven get good reviews in 2021? LOL.

I don't understand what you're saying here. Superhero movies are largely action movies. X3 wasn't very good because it was poorly made and rushed.

Most of the stuff that was acclaimed in X3 as Grammer's beast and having uncomfortable mature themes that shows comic films are not just action and comedy alone is why even now X3 will be more respected as a comic film even with the issues. this is an example of a theme that would never been in an MCU as stated by that black widow review.

BW is getting better reviews than X3.

Scene like this are what pushing the comic book story genre. not recent high RT score of nothing.

Also remember black panther is the highest rated RT movie by numbers a movie with some of the poorest done cgi in comic film and a plot not even as compelling as some of the phase 1 films. Zack Snyder's Man of Steel was a more compelling film than Black Panther with superior VFX, sound mixing and cinematography and the themes of Man of Steel are more heavily addressed , this is why this MCU narrative critical reviews of man of steel was that the movie was depressing. when in reality, had man of steel come out around 2003-2006. that would not even be a point because films like X2 or Batman Begins have already addressed similar themes Depression and high takes terrorism as Zod was portrayed in Man of Steel are serious adult themes that can be addressed in a comic film as Snyder proved it It not fun or comedic like Avengers and Loki made it to be in Avengers 2021 ...oh and I think that film has a 93%.

And yet BP got more awards, acclaim, box office receipts and dvd sales than MOS. That's a fact. You can have your opinion but the actual facts say otherwise. Sorry.

Please I think this discussion with me needs go back to actual depth of comic films not superficial narratives of rt scores that just confirm why critics no longer have credibility. After all by RT most MCU films are ''better'' than the Green Mile. which is the best Stephen King movie adaption to date. lol

You shouldn't be unhappy by critics giving Marvel movies good reviews. That coupled with the box office and awards means they are doing very well by both audiences and critics. That shouldn't bother you at all. You should simply ignore critics and move on. Especially when claiming that critics have no credibility when they don't like what you like, that's not a logical conclusion because you are putting your emotions in the place of common sense.

[Castle]

There's no evidence Disney did anything to change the tone of the movies. Thor 1 and 2 don't have different tones, Captain America 1 and 2 don't have different tones, Iron man 1 and 2 don't have different tones, Avengers 1 and 2 don't have different tones.

Unfortunately this is just too much Marvel vs others, with not much balance, So I will just lay it down, many times with reality of what is.

There is evidence.



Additionally, If Marvel had not been bought by Disney. Iron Man 3 initial story would have been in the films, but Disney removed it because they did not like the themes of alcoholism as written in the comic book.

X-men 3 was a rushed production. Fox really botched the X-men series which is why so many of them were badly received.

Fox butchered half of the series. maybe not even half if I remove Dark Phoenix and New Mutants, But do so factually remember, MCU many times say they are trying to copy of an xmen movie for substance with films like Logan and X-MEN 1, inspired they end up with even more Disney inspired shallow writing, that even the 90s xmen cartoon has more mature complex arcs , talk- less of the xmen movies

Endgame will never be taken as seriously or held in high regards as Logan is. Logan forever changed how to make comic films.

Black Panther and Killmonger would never be the new Xavier and Magneto and no MCU film will ever tackle heavy themes of prejudice, hatred, fear, dissemination, political powers and comic book drama as any of good xmen films that did. The good xmen films did not even need the generic CGI third act, that I hear is part of some of the weakness of the black widow.

And any evidence that comic book films get better reviews because they are funny now. Raimi's first two Spider-man movies had healthy doses of humor and got great reviews. Without any evidence to support that comic book movies are getting better reviews because they are funny, that's a false claim. A lot of serious superhero movies get good reviews even as we speak.

Sam Raimi spiderman films had great reviews for been a more serious focused grown story of peter parker and the drama that comes with his life. Sam Raimi Spiderman films are not like the MCU. the story style of sam raimi's films, can factually not have anyone be an Iron Man type charcutier in his films, which in reality subdues Holland's Spiderman and the reason Raimi films are better.

Good reviews sure. However Chris Nolan and Singer xmen films got good reviews for bee mature comic book dramas in a mostly grounded world where evil is not watered down as they are in disney films. they did not get good reviews because they were funny and had lots of action.

BW is getting better reviews than X3

.

Not really by 2021 reviews standards. lol. Also from what I have seen so far the VFX of X3 looks better than all the recent VFX comic films and again, it is more about substance. X3 is fine been mixed as a film 16 years ago with some good intellectual aspects. I rather take that objectively , than another full on action comedy of mostly nothing.

And yet BP got more awards, acclaim, box office receipts and dvd sales than MOS. That's a fact. You can have your opinion but the actual facts say otherwise. Sorry.

Black Panther got awards for bad wokeness and I am a person who criticising the woke movement all the time, but when something is woke, I say so. Black Panther awards has nothing to do with celebrating the auteur aspect of cinema like James Cameron's movies.

You shouldn't be unhappy by critics giving Marvel movies good reviews. That coupled with the box office and awards means they are doing very well by both audiences and critics. That shouldn't bother you at all. You should simply ignore critics and move on. Especially when claiming that critics have no credibility when they don't like what you like, that's not a logical conclusion because you are putting your emotions in the place of common sense.

Since Spiderman films have been made by both marvel and sony.

I rather pick the good reviews of the sam raiami films, for many reasons. The good reviews of holland spiderman does not mean much, I can get that for ant man or captain marvel.

At least the Raimi films, I know it is more celebrating Raimi as a film maker and something more challenging done with Peter Parker and Spiderman. than just humor, funny, lights, camera and action.

[SiegePerilous02]

Had man of steel come out around 2003-2006. that would not even be a point because films like X2 or Batman Begins have already addressed similar themes Depression and high takes terrorism as Zod was portrayed in Man of Steel are serious adult themes that can be addressed in a comic film as Snyder proved it It not fun or comedic like Avengers and Loki made it to be in Avengers 2021 ...oh and I think that film has a 93%.

As someone who has dealt with a mild form of anxiety and depression and who has family members with more severe cases, the notion that Snyder managed to address these things in a "serious" manner is kind of funny

[chicago_bastard]

overall reviews are still pretty generic like many of the recent general comic films, What I almost find odd reading this reviews is, critics seem nicer to Wonder Woman 84 on some parts but still gave that an overall fail, compared to what they are given Black Widow. Black Widow so far from its reviews has nothing new or brings nothing new. As was said with Antman, age of ultron and captain marvel. which black widow from what I can see, is getting compared to at least from watching Grace Randolph's reviews and she is a shill for all female comic films .

Grace even said Black Widow is more animated and cartoonish than wonder woman. Now this I have to see for myself. round everything all up, you again are getting the same action comedies MCU narrative that they do all the time and DC also tried to copy. this is why no one listen to most of these critics anymore.

I don't care about anything Grace Randolph says because she has shallow knowledge about movies. And for someone who is supposed to be a female comic film shill it seems strange to give Birds of Prey only a 5/10 rating. Actually she seems to be pandering more to the incels among her followers like many YouTubers do.

Ant-Man and Captain Marvel are pretty much the last films to compare BW to but I'm not surprised someone as clueless as Grace Randolph spouts such nonsense.

Black Widow so far from its reviews has nothing new or brings nothing new.

This is just projecting your own wishes on the reviews. In the post you quoted I have cited some reviewers saying that it has a rather unique approach on characterization for a comic book movie.

Now this I have to see for myself.

You will and then you'll tell us that a movie that deals with themes like spoilers:

the abuse of girls

end of spoilers, the spoilers:

suppression of free will

end of spoilers, and spoilers:

coping with the disappointments in one's life

end of spoilers, a film that shows spoilers:

the hero as a cold-blooded killer

end of spoilers and depicts spoilers:

broken limbs

end of spoilers and a spoilers:

brutal beatdown of a defenseless woman

end of spoilers and has a pretty graphic description of spoilers:

a forced sterilization

end of spoilers is pandering to kids like the other MCU movies do according to you.

Please I think this discussion with me needs go back to actual depth of comic films not superficial narratives of rt that just explains why critics no longer have credibility. After all by RT most MCU or even comic films are ''better'' than the Green Mile. which is the best Stephen King movie adaption to date. lol and themes and story of the green mile is even more mature than many XMEN and DC films.

I Don't need RT scores as that is not film, that is just fake hype. I need interesting themes and director driven movies that makes me wants to root for directors and writers, even if I may not agree 100% with their choices.

What chances are there, that Black Widow or any marvel film will have a similar Cyborg story line from the JL Cut or even have VFX that rival Lord of the rings? Yeah I doubt we will need RT scores of this one. If Grace Randolph's reviews are correct that Black Widow is even more cartoonish and animated than wonder woman 84 and she was right about WW 84.

You came up with RT in the first place. Now that you realized it doesn't support your claims you resort to saying RT isn't credible. Instead you now pick one critic that happens to share your opinion, which is already laughable in itself but even more so due to said critic being Grace Randolph who nobody takes seriously.

There are dozens of MCU movies that have better story lines than the poorly executed and acted Cyborg story that was basically just repeating the oldest superhero trope there is. To come up with daddy issues to characterize your hero in the year 2021 (or 2017 for that matter) is the epitome of non-creative story telling.