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  1. #1
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    Default Wonder Woman 1984 Thoughts SPOILERS

    SPOILERS Ahead

    Just saw it and, well, to begin with, it's probably been one of the most enjoyable superhero movies I've seen in recent years.

    No, not the best, but definitely it's got a lot of other films from the past few years beat in terms of sheer enjoyment!

    WW '84 is actually a throwback to an earlier era of superhero films. It felt a bit like a slicker, more contemporary version of the Richard Lester Superman movies. And there's the DNA of pre-MCU and pre-Nolan superhero fare from the Noughties in ther somewhere too. It's in everything - the characters, the tone, the plot...the whole architecture of the movie.

    Gal Gadot is brilliant as usual, and here we finally get to see her as THE Wonder Woman (even if they don't actually use that name in the entire film) in a solo adventure. She's literally Diana out of the pages of a comic-book. And the whole movie is an ode to the Wonder Woman mythos - Themyscera, Steve Trevor, Cheetah, weird mystical stuff...the friggin' INVISIBLE PLANE!!! I love how they found a neat balance between her being a female version of the Donner Superman and her basically being a warrior princess descended from the ultimate God. She's nice and a pillar of virtue, but she's also a badass...and all too emotionally (and at times physically) vulnerable.

    Chris Pine was great as Steve Trevor and brought some humor and an emotional core to the film. I also love how his and Diana's love story didn't intrude on the film too much. It played it's part in Diana's arc, and then Steve bows out...and that's the end of it.

    Kritin Wiig made for a great Cheetah, and an even better Barbara Minerva. In another major throwback to a bygone era of superhero flicks, she did a great job (intentionally or unintentionally?) channeling Michelle Pfifer's Selina Kyle. And the big message of the movie notwithstanding, I found her a totally sympathetic character for like 90% of the film...I was even rooting for her when she gave a beat-down to that creep in the park!

    Pedro Pascal's Maxwell Lord was a joy to watch, and very much an alum from the Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor school of supervillainy (with a dash of Max Shreck thrown in). And I love how they took a character who's totally hammy and campy, upped the hamminess and campiness to infinity towards the end and STILL had it all make perfect sense and actually be 'realistic'! Let's face it, a 'real' person in the 'real' world would TOTALLY have Max's "I am a God" moment if they had the literal power-trip he had...

    Now for the big message of the movie - well, it is a tad simplistic, but perfectly in line with the Wonder Woman mythos. After all, this is a character who's signature weapon is a Lasso of Truth...so it's fitting that the climactic moment of the movie is basically her putting a giant (metaphorical) Lasso of Truth around the world and forcing us all to see the light! The truth triumphing over lies, and everything going back to normal once the lies are exposed is a tad too simplistic and over-optimistic...but then, this is the kind of movie that totally owns its optimism up-front. That said, I do personally prefer the more complex moral message of the first movie to this one.

    So...what's next for WW on the big-screen? Most likely, we're moving to the present day. I'm guessing a return to Themyscera, and the return of the Gods, might be in order. Maybe we finally get to see Diana embrace the 'Wonder Woman' persona publicaly?

    That said, the movie does hint that Diana was active, in some form, during WW2 so...a JSA movie with Wonder Woman as a member? It could happen! One can only hope...

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    How did they explain Steve Trevor being in Wonder Woman one that was set in World War one and in 1984?
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    How did they explain Steve Trevor being in Wonder Woman one that was set in World War one and in 1984?
    Well...if you want SPOILERS (and I've labelled this a spoiler thread), Diana basically 'wishes' him back to life through the Dreamstone (which is the central magical artifact around which the movie revolves) and his spirit possesses the body of some random guy in 1984 Washington DC. Diana (and the audience) see him as Steve.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Well...if you want SPOILERS (and I've labelled this a spoiler thread), Diana basically 'wishes' him back to life through the Dreamstone (which is the central magical artifact around which the movie revolves) and his spirit possesses the body of some random guy in 1984 Washington DC. Diana (and the audience) see him as Steve.
    Cool thank you That was kind of a thing that bugged me in the trailers.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  5. #5
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    I just finished it and I have to say overall I was disappointed. The only reason i would give it an above average rating was the flying sequences seriously were the cinematic "joy" I want from a Wonder Woman movie. They were amazing, and brilliantly done. It felt like Ok this is Trinity Wonder Woman reaching for the peak of her powers. Too bad the rest of the film never matched those heights for me.

    Lets start where all super hero films should begin. And that is the villain(s). Maxwell Lord here was at his heart a desperate loser, who bungled into "wishing powers". This was a narrative mistake that dragged the movie down for me. Instead of a menacing, memorable calculated nemesis Diana got him. It didn't work on any level to me. His "success" relied on Diana being wrapped up in Steve being wished back into a form of existence to sate her loneliness for a majority of the movie. I mean her loneliness and desperation literally led to her being depowered enough to make Maxwell and Cheetah who I will get to in a sec match her. This isn't an acting failure, to me its a writing and direction failure. The next immediate match for a letdown like this was Lex Luthor in Batman vs Superman. Completely out of character caricature for no reason. I wont remember any one sequence with him. I wont remember any one standout scene where you are like this is a great bad guy. He came off as just a goofy, crybaby loser and thats a waste. You feel like his story is totally done here and you don't want to see any more of him at all ever again cinematically. He has nothing to give as a character anymore just on how he was written.

    Cheetah....ok I mean one of Diana's top tier rogues gallery mainstays. Acting, I'm not against the portrayal. Parts of the story were there, they could have developed the Diana friendship more before she turned imo so you get more emotion like the comics from that visceral animus, and betrayal wrapped up in jealousy and old friendship. That is the dynamic of the comics version of their story. I am ok with her being "wished" into this form rather than the more comics version. Thats fine. But she at the end of the day was basically Max's bodyguard because she didn't want to be "normal" again. It diminished her a little because Maxwell himself wasn't great. So if she's protecting a loser she has to be a loser too.

    My biggest disappointment in this is the writing. I felt like they went the wrong way with this from the start. The 80s as a backdrop was weak, it didn't add anything. Gimmick to me . If you were going there I always felt like the bigger story is why was Wonder Woman a "secret". After WW1 why wasn't she more prevalent in history. Why didn't she get involved with WW2 and prevent the holocaust? They ignore it here and to me its a bigger story. She cares so much about the world and humanity. It doesn't make sense to ignore all the big horrors and wars since the first movie in the world. But she shows up to stop robbers in a mall in the beginning. Where was she? These gripes are for what to me would have been more interesting fertile narrative to dive into than what we got. This is the second film now on her own and there isn't a stable guest cast for her to depend on or rely on for the audience to be invested in HER reality. This is where giving her a close friend or sidekick or bringing Steve back permanently would help balance her out. Clark has Lois, and Jimmy, and Martha to balance him out to give him grounded narratives to delve into even as he goes up against world ending threats. Bruce has Alfred, we haven't gotten the Robins in the films but they serve the same purpose.

    I thought it was a mistake to kill Steve in the first place. So I wouldn't have minded him being brought back permanently. I think Diana needs a stable ally with her. Thats kind of the reason I am over the period piece films. This one didn't add anything. I mean its all fresh as I just finished it and It seems like I hated it but I didn't. Its above average but I would have been unhappy if I paid to see it in a theatre rather than use my 30 day HBO max trial to watch it.

  6. #6
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    Just watched it and while it wasn't as good as the first one, it wasn't bad at all. Definitely give this film a B+. The biggest issue I had was there wasn't enough fight scenes or in a sense there wasn't a "No Man's Land" caliber fight.

    Have to agree with a previous comment that this was one of the better written superhero movies in a very long time and truthfully as far as screenplay goes it could easily break top 3 in that group.
    Last edited by ComicJunkie21; 12-25-2020 at 02:23 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    SPOILERS Ahead
    WW '84 is actually a throwback to an earlier era of superhero films. It felt a bit like a slicker, more contemporary version of the Richard Lester Superman movies. And there's the DNA of pre-MCU and pre-Nolan superhero fare from the Noughties in ther somewhere too. It's in everything - the characters, the tone, the plot...the whole architecture of the movie.
    It's funny you mention the Lester Superman movies. I was listening to the soundtrack yesterday, and I was definitely getting a Donner Superman feel from some of the tracks.

  8. #8
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    Superhero movies usually have a lot of world threat, but it also tried to keep distance with real world ppl because superheroes, at least most of them don't fit well with real world. Like the first WW movie was set in WWI but didn't involve too much with the real world politics and the war. The 2nd obviously made a mistake on it.


    It tried to set upon so many nations and ppl's greed but in real life it was a HUGE mess which you cannot sum as a whole, nor can it be solved easily. So step into it is a huge NO for the movie. The movie obviously didn't focus too much on all these people, how their lives were, what problem did they encounter, so their wishes look very vague. Not to say they all just make wishes instead of thinking about take away Maxwell to make him serve one person only. Like Piccolo killed Shenglong after his wish. So the whole theme only looks ridiculous and wasn't convincing at showing humanity's darkness or light at all.


    The villains were heavily focused, but wasn't executed well.


    Maxwell was too cartoonish, yes we got where his idea come from and what his weakness was, but his downfall was not strong enough, he didn't become evil enough to show humans' greed. And I don't see it convincing for him to renounce his wish when he didn't even care about the world burn. Even if he really cared about his son, he had such power and could easily ensure his son's safety, how did he know that his son would be safe if he took it back? We all know who he was based upon, but I won't say they did a good job.


    Barbara was a even bigger problem. She received such good characterization in the first half, her corruption made perfect sense yes. But in the later 1/3 of the plot. Her logic and character just crumbled.


    WHY did she not only protect Maxwell but also helped him to grant wishes? She wanted to be elite or even NO.1 one, won't let everyone else have their wishes hurt her own? Like if that creep got his wish against her, wouldn't it be bad? Logic just doesn't apply here. She should have grabbed him away, lock him up and make sure other ppl won't be able to use him. So was many other ppl but since she is the main villain that becomes a huge issue.


    Her whitewash in the end also made little sense to me. She got saved by Diana earlier and she didn't just thank her but wanted to be powerful, and even beat Diana a lot of times rather than keep peace with her savior. In the end she already became such a powerful predator with most of her humanity has lost, got beaten and saved by Diana would only hurt her pride more, why would she cease fighting at all?


    Since both villains' action and logic went unconvincing in the end, the climax seems really weak. The first movie didn't have good action but the logic applies and the character development was there. This one, overall is a huge disappointment to me.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking; 12-25-2020 at 02:23 PM.

  9. #9
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Perfect movie. Absolutely loved it.

  10. #10
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    Enjoyed the movie but not as much as the first. I did enjoy the mid credit scene!

  11. #11
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    Well, having seen it, I liked it; I read a review on yahoo which basically condemned the movie as being boiled down to a “democrats good, republican bad” analogy, which killed my enthusiasm going into it. Hollywood really needs to stop putting politics in their movies. I liked gal Godot; Pedro pascal as max lord, I couldn’t take seriously as a villain, but then I didn’t want to. I’ve never liked max as a bad guy, so I’m kind of glad they showed the consequences of his actions on himself and the world. My question is; where will max and Barbara go from here? Barbara isn’t interested in redemption, so I guess she’ll try and find ways to get her power back. Will Diana try and find her? She didn’t seem too interested in Barbara in the beginning. And how did she figure out who Diana was? Moreover, I’m not a fan of period pieces either, which is why I didn’t care for the first movie as much. Setting this one in 1984 was an odd choice at best. There were some other things that seemed out of place like Diana arriving at the party in a limo, dressed to the nines, that I found a bit odd as well. And I could’ve done without that whole sequence in the beginning, where Diana, who was younger than all the other contestants in the games, bungles her lead, cheats to get ahead, and then protests when she gets called on it. How did the other Amazon’s know she cheated to start with?
    Last edited by protege; 12-25-2020 at 04:23 PM.

  12. #12
    Incredible Member basbash99's Avatar
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    Thought it was pretty so-so... as a result i'm surprised to say Birds of Prey was my favorite superhero movie for 2020! I would probably rank this one below the 1st WW, Aquaman, Shazam,and BoP but above MoS, BvS, JL, or Suicide Squad.

    I didn't think either Max Lord or Cheetah worked all that well as villains, although i thought both actors gave it their best shot.

    The escalating crisis caused by the wishes was at least different from most superhero movies although i wish (lol) things had gotten a lot more fantastical.

    The fish out of water aspect worked better in the first movie. Felt like they should've used the 80s setting for more laughs with Pine reacting to stuff.

    WW was a lot like Spidey in the early part of the movie, swinging everywhere on the lasso.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    Well, having seen it, I liked it; I read a review on yahoo which basically condemned the movie as being boiled down to a “democrats good, republican bad” analogy, which killed my enthusiasm going into it. Hollywood really needs to stop putting politics in their movies. I liked gal Godot; Pedro pascal as max lord, I couldn’t take seriously as a villain, but then I didn’t want to. I’ve never liked max as a bad guy, so I’m kind of glad they showed the consequences of his actions on himself and the world. My question is; where will max and Barbara go from here? Barbara isn’t interested in redemption, so I guess she’ll try and find ways to get her power back. Will Diana try and find her? She didn’t seem too interested in Barbara in the beginning. And how did she figure out who Diana was? Moreover, I’m not a fan of period pieces either, which is why I didn’t care for the first movie as much. Setting this one in 1984 was an odd choice at best. There were some other things that seemed out of place like Diana arriving at the party in a limo, dressed to the nines, that I found a bit odd as well. And I could’ve done without that whole sequence in the beginning, where Diana, who was younger than all the other contestants in the games, bungles her lead, cheats to get ahead, and then protests when she gets called on it. How did the other Amazon’s know she cheated to start with?
    Barbara's character makes little sense in the later half.

    Quote Originally Posted by basbash99 View Post
    Thought it was pretty so-so... as a result i'm surprised to say Birds of Prey was my favorite superhero movie for 2020! I would probably rank this one below the 1st WW, Aquaman, Shazam,and BoP but above MoS, BvS, JL, or Suicide Squad.

    I didn't think either Max Lord or Cheetah worked all that well as villains, although i thought both actors gave it their best shot.

    The escalating crisis caused by the wishes was at least different from most superhero movies although i wish (lol) things had gotten a lot more fantastical.

    The fish out of water aspect worked better in the first movie. Felt like they should've used the 80s setting for more laughs with Pine reacting to stuff.

    WW was a lot like Spidey in the early part of the movie, swinging everywhere on the lasso.
    Because they were not written well.

    And the whole crisis makes 0 sense at all.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking; 12-25-2020 at 04:45 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post

    Lets start where all super hero films should begin. And that is the villain(s). Maxwell Lord here was at his heart a desperate loser, who bungled into "wishing powers". This was a narrative mistake that dragged the movie down for me. Instead of a menacing, memorable calculated nemesis Diana got him. It didn't work on any level to me. His "success" relied on Diana being wrapped up in Steve being wished back into a form of existence to sate her loneliness for a majority of the movie.
    To be frank, it seems like you just didn't pay attention to the movie. He didn't bungle into anything. He had a goal, and a plan to achieve that goal, and he was entirely successful in doing so. And then after he achieved his goal, he was forced onto the backfoot and had to improvise to stay a head.

    Personally, that's a much more interesting villain than a regular chess master is chess master

  15. #15
    Incredible Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    So is nobody going to mention that Wonder Woman absolutely raped the guy whos body Steve is possessing? They literally go back to his home and have sex in his bed, and its definitely not like his body physically changed into being Chris Pine, it's just a narrative device to convey that it's Steve. It'd definitely just that other guy.
    Last edited by gonnagiveittoya; 12-25-2020 at 07:21 PM.

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