Wonder Woman 1984 Thoughts SPOILERS

[Agent Z]

We don't know, probably his will was still there and agreed to do those things. So we cannot accuse anyone for crime.

If the movie doesn't show him giving consent, then he didn't give consent.

[ZeroBG82]

Because they tried to set up a huge theme of "the greed of humanity" and use the whole world to show it.

That wasn't the theme. The theme is that there are no shortcuts to success or happiness. That you can't take the easy way out without a cost, and that shallowly embracing "success" or a reward you didn't actually earn is a kind of selfish deceit that is demeaning to yourself and destructive to society. That while it can be painful to acknowledge the truth sometimes, it's always a better choice than lying to yourself or others.

[AnakinFlair]

You don't even have to dig too deep to tear down the silliness of Max's machinations. He literally went to the White House and purposely tried to incite nuclear war. How is a nuclear wasteland going to keep his son safe or caring about his future? He didn't even do anything to make sure he was safe during all that. Then finally at the end Wonder Woman talks at him and he cares? Ok.

Thats a good point about Cheetah. They could have developed her alone and left Max out honestly. Max was unimpressive anyway.

The thing is, I don't think MAX was trying to incite nuclear war. All he wanted was for the most powerful man in the world to make a wish, so he could then take said man's power for himself. It was the PRESIDENT who wanted more nukes.

With Max, he just didn't seem to care about or understand the consequences of the wishes. He just wanted people to make them so he could take something for himself.

[Slowpokeking]

This movie was really messy. I liked a lot of it, but it needed a re-write or four. It seemed like it didn't really know what its theme was, Max's motivations for both his villain turn and his "hero" turn are dubious at best and the plot mechanics with the wishes really break down the more you think about them. It's almost the opposite of the first movie. Where the first movie was near perfect to me and glaring flaw prevents me from enjoying it fully, this movie is a flawed movie that I enjoy despite those flaws.

Its theme was told in the beginning and the end, but it was too large for a movie, especially a superhero movie to resolve.

[Slowpokeking]

That wasn't the theme. The theme is that there are no shortcuts to success or happiness. That you can't take the easy way out without a cost, and that shallowly embracing "success" or a reward you didn't actually earn is a kind of selfish deceit that is demeaning to yourself and destructive to society. That while it can be painful to acknowledge the truth sometimes, it's always a better choice than lying to yourself or others.

That's pretty much the same with the greed of humanity when it exceed the needs.

And we all know "no shortcuts" is not always the case in real life, it's never about fair, nor could it be resolved easily. The movie tried to bring it to the entire humanity instead of a few individuals and fall for that.

[Slowpokeking]

The thing is, I don't think MAX was trying to incite nuclear war. All he wanted was for the most powerful man in the world to make a wish, so he could then take said man's power for himself. It was the PRESIDENT who wanted more nukes.

With Max, he just didn't seem to care about or understand the consequences of the wishes. He just wanted people to make them so he could take something for himself.

That makes the plot very silly, why would Max ignore nuclear war since it could destroy him and everything else?

Why would the President even do that rather than detain Max and make him the most use for the US?

[ZeroBG82]

With Max, he just didn't seem to care about or understand the consequences of the wishes. He just wanted people to make them so he could take something for himself.

This. His entire thing is just a mystical get rich quick scheme. He's not caring about who is making wishes, what those wishes are, or how they might affect anybody so long as he gets what he wants out of it, right this second. The man isn't a master planner, he's a con man, selling you whatever it takes to get you to pay. I loved watching it go to his head. He starts off just wanting to make his business successful, then escalates to wanting to control all the oil in the world, then to basically having leverage on every single person on the planet. He doesn't intend to take over the world, at the beginning, he just can't stop himself from wanting, or taking, MORE. That's his character. MORE and NOW. There is no such thing as enough for him, no place where he's content or grounded. MORE.

Compare him with Barbara, who is convinced that her life would be so amazing if only she was "beautiful" and "cool", but who was actually good person at the beginning of the film. But her insecurity led her to literally turn herself into a monster in order to feel special and superior. She has a similar arc, where getting what she wants just leads her to wanting still more. She can't see that the kindness and empathy she had for people at the beginning of the film is so much more powerful than any super strength or confidence. She gets her swagger from her wish, but loses the one thing about her that was actually beautiful.

[Slowpokeking]

This. His entire thing is just a mystical get rich quick scheme. He's not caring about who is making wishes, what those wishes are, or how they might affect anybody so long as he gets what he wants out of it, right this second. The man isn't a master planner, he's a con man, selling you whatever it takes to get you to pay. I loved watching it go to his head. He starts off just wanting to make his business successful, then escalates to wanting to control all the oil in the world, then to basically having leverage on every single person on the planet. He doesn't intend to take over the world, at the beginning, he just can't stop himself from wanting, or taking, MORE. That's his character. MORE and NOW. There is no such thing as enough for him, no place where he's content or grounded. MORE.

Compare him with Barbara, who is convinced that her life would be so amazing if only she was "beautiful" and "cool", but who was actually good person at the beginning of the film. But her insecurity led her to literally turn herself into a monster in order to feel special and superior. She has a similar arc, where getting what she wants just leads her to wanting still more. She can't see that the kindness and empathy she had for people at the beginning of the film is so much more powerful than any super strength or confidence. She gets her swagger from her wish, but loses the one thing about her that was actually beautiful.

But nuclear war would destroy his life and all his success, that only needs basic logic to understand.

Barbara wanted to be special and superior, then why did she help Max to get there and accept all wishes? That could easily make her not superior and elite anymore. Imagine that creep makes a wish about her. Any evil person with basic logic would use their power to imprison Max and ensure that his power would only serve themselves.

[Amadeus Arkham]

This movie isn’t what I call good, but I will say it was an interesting experience. I think what the movie is partially about is the value of truth, and our capacity to confront and engage with it as honestly as we can without retreating to our delusional comfort zones as well as our selfish desires and how they can override our ability to commit to the selfless greater good. It’s about the damage of deceit, and how we’re just as hurt by the lies to ourselves as much as the lies that is told to us by others but I don’t think the movie’s script services the themes well enough, and it’s really bloated however it’s a fun and uplifting movie that I think works well as good escapism especially in a year as disastrously bad as 2020. 6.5/10 Not bad, but not really great either. I’ll have to watch the movie again to form a more solid opinion but I come away with a mixed reaction overall.

[ZeroBG82]

But nuclear war would destroy his life and all his success, that only needs basic logic to understand.

Barbara wanted to be special and superior, then why did she help Max to get there and accept all wishes? That could easily make her not superior and elite anymore. Imagine that creep makes a wish about her. Any evil person with basic logic would use their power to imprison Max and ensure that his power would only serve themselves.

Think about it from Max's perspective: Why would nuclear war result from the President's wish? We, the audience are shown the impact that Max's wish granting is having on the world, but Max himself isn't nearly as aware. He's too busy to see what's happening, for one thing. But more importantly because he doesn't care. It never occurs to him that giving the US President a few hundred extra nukes would have consequences beyond that, because that's who he is.

But you answered your own point on Barbara. She's not evil, she's selfish. She doesn't stop to look at what Max is doing beyond what the power has already given her and that it could be taken away.

You're equating "logic" with positions that the characters in the film simply don't hold, even if they could. Max doesn't have access to enough information to even be worried about your first point, and I still don't think he would care even if he did. He'd probably just get someone to wish it away, because that's the quickest and easiest way to handle it, other consequences be damned. That's who this Max Lord is. He doesn't think more than about 10 minutes ahead, and then only in terms of how things affect him. And it's a blanket misreading of Minerva to suggest that her thought process extends beyond herself at any point in the film after she makes her wish.

[Slowpokeking]

Why would nuclear war result from the President's wish? We, the audience are shown the impact that Max's wish granting is having on the world, but Max himself isn't nearly as aware. Because he doesn't care. It never occurs to him that giving the US President a few hundred extra nukes would have consequences beyond that, because that's now who he is.

But you answered your own point on Barbara. She's not evil, she's selfish. She doesn't stop to look at what Max is doing beyond what the power has already given her and that it could be taken away.

You're equating "logic" with positions that the characters in the film simply don't hold, even if they could. Max doesn't have access to enough information to even be worried about your first point, and I still don't think he would care even if he did. He'd probably just get someone to wish it away, because that's the quickest and easiest way to handle it, other consequences be damned. That's who this Max Lord is. He doesn't think more than about 10 minutes ahead, and then only in terms of how things affect him. And it's a blanket misreading of Minerva to suggest that her thought process extends beyond herself at any point in the film after she makes her wish.

Of course it might, and the thing is that the war DID break out after the wish, why was he not aware of it and continued to grant wishes? We are talking about that the war has broken out and Max just acted like he didn't care at all.

How is Barbara not evil by that point? She didn't care the world burn as long as her wish was granted. And you said yourself she was selfish, then WHY didn't she lock him up for herself to use only? Others' wish would hurt her wish, even herself since she had inflicted wounds on others like the creep before. Evil doesn't make her stupid dude. Even before she went there she knew what Max was doing: Granting ppl wishes.

OK I looked it again, Max CLEARLY TOLD her on the plane about he was going to grant ppl wishes after wishes before grant her another wish to become Cheetah.

If he didn't care, then he would have no reason to stop in the end because ALL of those could have hurt his son and himself. Same thing for Barbara. Their logic just doesn't hold at all.

[bat39]

I liked it. I'd put it on par with the first movie, and at least as good as Aquaman was, which I enjoyed.

I liked the pictures in Diana's apartment. We got to see old Etta Candy. Wish they had zoomed in on that first picture- I think it was a wedding, but I'm not sure. And it looks like Diana stuck around with the original team for a while.

Love the fact that we got the invisible jet, as well as the explanation for it. Though I wonder if she'll loose it like the coffee cup...

Pedro Pascal is having a banner year, isn't he? The Mandalorian, this, even that new kiddie hero movie on Netflix.

I'm not sure what it was, but the guy Steve took over, in his normal form, looked like cross between Christian Slater and Henry Cavill.

I liked the fact that, at the end when Diana was talking to everyone through the broadcast, Zimmer brought back a music cue from Batman v Superman- A Beautiful Lie

Great to see Lynda Carter again. Oddly, I always thought the Amazon's immortality was tied to them staying on Themyscira, with Diana being a special case.

New thought- I'd love for it to be revealed that the Justice Society was active in WWII, and that Asteria was the Wonder Woman on that team. Come on, it writes itself.

Speaking of, glad they found a way to go back there, and glad they found a way to bring back Robin Wright. But when we finally get a third movie, I hope they find a way for Diana to return to the island in the present day, if only to visit.

FINALLY, Diana can fly on her own. I was alright with her just swinging from lightning bolts, but to see her fly finally put a smile on my face.

There was a real joy watching each of the main characters exploring their wishes- from Barbara working out, to Max granting the wishes. And I loved Steve, a man who died during the first World War, discovering the future. Though it was a bit ridiculous that he could fly a modern fighter jet.

Cheetah looked pretty good- at least it didn't look as bad as Cats did. It helped it was at night.

I think, at the end of the day, my biggest problem is the character here really doesn't mesh with the character we me in present day in Batman v Superman. Even the costume was different (nice to see bolder colors, though). In BvS, she was still mourning the loss of Steve. But here, it looks like she was finally able to let him go and move on.

Amazon immortality isn't necessarily tied to Themyscera, but there have been a lot of conflicting takes on this. For instance, I believe that the Golden Age/Earth Two Wonder Woman had to renounce her immortality in order to remain on Man's World and marry Steve Trevor after WW2. Then there are some versions in which time works differently on Themyscera, which somehow translates to the Amazons being ageless while on the island. But off-late, the idea seems to be that Amazons are just immortal, whether they're on or of the island.

Yeah, I loved the theme from BvS as well. Which made me wonder - since this is set in the DCEU timeline, Bruce Wayne would be around somewhere (the Wayne murders happened in 1981, and the movie is set in 1984). Did Bruce wish his parents back into existence? And did he too renounce his wish at the end?

As far as the JSA goes, my headcanon now is that Diana herself was a member of the JSA during WW2. And I'd love to see a JSA movie down the line with her - maybe in a more Golden Age-inspired costume.

The thing is, I don't think MAX was trying to incite nuclear war. All he wanted was for the most powerful man in the world to make a wish, so he could then take said man's power for himself. It was the PRESIDENT who wanted more nukes.

With Max, he just didn't seem to care about or understand the consequences of the wishes. He just wanted people to make them so he could take something for himself.

This.

I think the whole idea is how simplistic desires and solutions in a complex world have dire consequences that you could never have imagined. All Max wanted was to get rich and powerful. But his instant success at a large-scale caused a lot of dominoes to fall, resulting in civil unrest in the United States, a Middle Easter conflict, and ultimately the looming threat of nuclear war.

To the extent that Max is supposed to be an expy for Donald Trump (and there is a bit of Trump in him, but also a fair bit of Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor and Christopher Walken's Max Shreck), I suppose its a crtique of the kind of blunt-force simplistic foreign (and for that matter) domestic policy that populist leaders follow which only ends up causing more chaos. Though to be fair, I don't think the film gets too political about it, and makes it more a parable about human nature.

[kidfresh512]

Think about it from Max's perspective: Why would nuclear war result from the President's wish? We, the audience are shown the impact that Max's wish granting is having on the world, but Max himself isn't nearly as aware. He's too busy to see what's happening, for one thing. But more importantly because he doesn't care. It never occurs to him that giving the US President a few hundred extra nukes would have consequences beyond that, because that's who he is.

But you answered your own point on Barbara. She's not evil, she's selfish. She doesn't stop to look at what Max is doing beyond what the power has already given her and that it could be taken away.

You're equating "logic" with positions that the characters in the film simply don't hold, even if they could. Max doesn't have access to enough information to even be worried about your first point, and I still don't think he would care even if he did. He'd probably just get someone to wish it away, because that's the quickest and easiest way to handle it, other consequences be damned. That's who this Max Lord is. He doesn't think more than about 10 minutes ahead, and then only in terms of how things affect him. And it's a blanket misreading of Minerva to suggest that her thought process extends beyond herself at any point in the film after she makes her wish.

The suggestion that Max doesn't "know" whats going on is false just based on us being able to "hear" the wishes around the world. He knew even if it was not his intent that the world was gearing up for nuclear war. He knew missiles were literally in the air. He knew people were wishing each other death etc. To say oh he just didn't know he was making the world a terrible place for his son is to ignore the plot hole. He didn't care what happens we get that. But, why are we supposed to believe at the end he became unselfish then after a stern lecture from Diana?

Oh yeah you are right Princess I guess I should care about the boy I have been neglecting and annoyed at the whole movie now that nukes I heard Russians praying about are in the air. If he cared he shouldn't have let it get that far. Honestly to avoid all this take the kid out totally and just have Max be more calculated and be beaten by Diana another way. His reasoning didn't work anyway. Hes a mass murderer even though I guess we are shown the wishes were like a rewind. He doesn't even go to jail or anything?

[Ramsay Snow]

I thought the movie was pretty bad. I watched after a full night's sleep, and the movie bored me back to sleep (I took a 4hr nap at 5pm).....No hyperbole in that statement.

Aside from Aquaman (and Nolan's Batman trilogy, if you count that), I haven't really liked any of the DC films......The first Wonder Woman I thought wasn't bad, but it was kind of ruined by an underwhelming finale which felt like a cheap retread of the finale in Batman vs Superman.

As for 1984, it was a little too hokey. An underwhelming main villain, too many ridiculous things going on, etc.....Pedro Pascal's performance was a little too over-the-top. I think Cheetah's origin story would've been better if it was more true to the comic and wasn't thrown in as part of the Maxwell Lord subplot. Wiig did well with her role, though.

There was some entertaining stuff, like Steve Trevor marveling at the technology of the 80s. I was surprised they didn't do a heavily 80s-themed soundtrack, considering the setting. There were 2-3 80s songs played, but aside from the Frankie Goes To Hollywood song, they weren't very prominent. I mean, hell, during the brief breakdancing scene, play some Herbie Hancock or Newcleus, at the very least.

I'd say 1984 was around the level of Shazam. I liked it more than Birds of Prey & Suicide Squad, but felt Justice League, MoS, and BvsS were all better (And, as somewhat stated above, I'm not a fan of any of those films).

[Potanical Pardon]

Movie was way better than I expected it to be. I really liked the writing and Pedro Pascal. Cheetah was fine enough for me. The only thing I didn't like was the movie was too long. The believability of how the world fell apart is ridiculous but that's fine, because I get what the film was going for. I also think Diana was a bit too holier-than-thou at times, which the character does have self-awareness of as it's her arc, but I wish way more characters than just the villains called her out on it. Whenever someone did bring it up, she just stoically stared back defiantly in denial.

The suggestion that Max doesn't "know" whats going on is false just based on us being able to "hear" the wishes around the world. He knew even if it was not his intent that the world was gearing up for nuclear war. He knew missiles were literally in the air. He knew people were wishing each other death etc. To say oh he just didn't know he was making the world a terrible place for his son is to ignore the plot hole. He didn't care what happens we get that. But, why are we supposed to believe at the end he became unselfish then after a stern lecture from Diana?

Oh yeah you are right Princess I guess I should care about the boy I have been neglecting and annoyed at the whole movie now that nukes I heard Russians praying about are in the air. If he cared he shouldn't have let it get that far. Honestly to avoid all this take the kid out totally and just have Max be more calculated and be beaten by Diana another way. His reasoning didn't work anyway. Hes a mass murderer even though I guess we are shown the wishes were like a rewind. He doesn't even go to jail or anything?

IMO, I think Max was a good guy. He's a liar, yeah, but even when that one guy called him a con he strongly wanted to will that to not be true. So the effort is there from him to provide everything for his son that his own parents could not. That's completely understandable. As with all the other characters' motivations because "When is it my turn? Just once," resonates. And that was my favorite aspect of the movie because every main character: Max, Diana, Barbara all sacrificed and put efforts in their own ways - others before self, as opposed to the mass wish scene where that was just sheer greed.