Wonder Woman 1984 Thoughts SPOILERS

[Kirby101]

So two more criticisms of this movie. Kristian Wig was more interesting before she became the villain. I won't say Cheetah, because her final transformation just felt like fan service to make her the comic character. Now I normally enjoy the nods to the fans, but this felt arbitrary. There was no reason for her to be a cheetah, except the nonsensical "apex preditor" comment and her mention of the animal prints earlier.
And Max Lord, well he was sort of , but not really the comic character. Which is okay, but I felt the character and storyline weak, as much as Pascal tried to make it work.

[Castle]

So two more criticisms of this movie. Kristian Wig was more interesting before she became the villain. I won't say Cheetah, because her final transformation just felt like fan service to make her the comic character. Now I normally enjoy the nods to the fans, but this felt arbitrary. There was no reason for her to be a cheetah, except the nonsensical "apex preditor" comment and her mention of the animal prints earlier.
And Max Lord, well he was sort of , but not really the comic character. Which is okay, but I felt the character and storyline weak, as much as Pascal tried to make it work.

Cheetah was a weak point, many DC fans will admit that. she just shows up as cheetah, did we even see her wish to be that. yes, it was fan service but a lot of this recent blockbusters have relied on too much fan service at the expense or original story. Star wars rise of skywalker and endgame to name a few, the only problem is cheetah was a very new character in movies so it was always going to fall flat.the best fan service was Linda Carter showing up after the credit scene.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

WW '84 wasn't the hit they wanted, but that's a classic Wonder Woman right there. It's not based on a specific story but it's got the right tone and cheesiness Wonder Woman's supposed to have. Yeah, it's a bump in the road they're not exiling Jenkins like they did with Snyder. They weren't telling the press they wanted to fast track a new Justice League when Snyder recovered from his tragedy. It's not even as bad as Birds of Prey was as a failure.




https://www.cbr.com/zack-snyder-just...s-not-dc-plan/



Those are not the words of a man with confidence in Zach Snyder rejoining the DCEU.



Maybe, but that's based on nothing. WW '84 may not be what they hoped but we haven't seen any confirmed fracturing at WB or Jenkins over that, it's been the opposite.



Except all we know is that WB loved the results, it's not the next Tenet. They didn't have the same expectations for the movie s they did before covid. The DCEU is hardly on its last legs, and WW '84 isn't putting the franchise at deaths door.



You're forgetting the sequels to Shazam, Aquaman and wonder Woman, as well as tv show related to The Batman, Aquaman and Wonder Woman. Batgirl and Static are getting movie for HBO Max linked to the current DCEU.



It's been working so far and they're more coherent then they were with Snyder at the helm, it's not like the DCEU wasn't disjointed during that period. Suicide Squad is supposed to be in the universe as B vs S! Wonder Woman got rid of her sword in the first movie, and it's tone wasn't like Snyder's movies either.

I disagree that WW84 isn't putting the franchise on its last legs. WW3 will absolutely open a lot lower than WW1 because of the negative response to WW2. I'd be surprised if WW3 opens any higher than $50 million, but it depends on how fresh people's memories are 3 years from now. In any event, the reason I brought up Snyder is that people LIKED his badass take on Diana.

I don't think the DC characters have to be "cheesy" as you put it. I don't think there IS a right amount of "cheesiness" that Wonder Woman is "supposed" to have. Perhaps superheroes were corny and cheesy when they were created in the 30s and 40s, but that doesn't mean they HAVE to stay that way. Holding the DC characters to that old sensibility whether it be the Golden/Silver Age comics, the Christopher Reeve movie, or the Lynda Carter TV show is what keeps the DC characters from being embraced today. Except for Batman, they come off looking noticeably less cool than the Marvel characters. 1938 is over. 1978 is over.

That superhero movies have to be colorful and cheesy is how we got Superman 3 and Joel Schumacher's Batman. And Wonder Woman 1984.

I'm not looking for the Snyderverse to return. I didn't agree with everything Snyder did, but I was never bored by his movies.

As I said, publicly no one at Warners will criticize Jenkins, but actions speak louder than words. We'll know how Warners truly feels if they want to continue to work with Jenkins after WW3. We'll also see how Disney responds regarding Star Wars Rogue Squadron if Cleopatra and WW3 underperform.

[Punisher007]

I actually really liked Maxwell Lord in this. I like that he was more layered and had some more dimension as a character than the trailers made it out to be. And Pedro Pascal does a great job of walking the line of being over the top (in a good way) while showing Max’s humanity underneath.

Cheetah wasn’t BAD per se, but I’ve seen this kind of villain trope before and the film didn’t really let her stand out that much from the others.

[Lightning Rider]

I agree with the rating too, but I do think it was poorly directed. Max Lord seemed to be in a different movie throughout, like if Jack Nicholson Joker was in The Dark Knight. I think the director has to take more responsibility than the actor for that.

I couldn't put my finger in why the film felt disjointed with regards to Lord and that's basically it, he and Diana are on separate tracks for most of the movie.

[titanfan]

I actually really liked Maxwell Lord in this. I like that he was more layered and had some more dimension as a character than the trailers made it out to be. And Pedro Pascal does a great job of walking the line of being over the top (in a good way) while showing Max’s humanity underneath.

Cheetah wasn’t BAD per se, but I’ve seen this kind of villain trope before and the film didn’t really let her stand out that much from the others.

I did too. Lord is now well set up for future films as an anti-hero type or a villain if they want to go in that direction. Given that he's played by a somewhat bigger actor we could see more of him one day. That said a lot of people who don't read the comics have no idea who Max Lord is/was and thought they spent too much time on him. (Esp. if they watch Marvel movies where the villains are just there to be defeated)

What were the reasons that Marvel dumped Jenkins for Thor 2? Creative differences? Did they not think she could handle a big budget film? Portman pretty much walked away over them firing Jenkins and then was shown to be "proven right" when Jenkins made Wonder Woman.

[Jim Kelly]

I think that I enjoyed the movie a lot more the second time I watched it. That happens with some movies. If you have a lot of expectations and then the movie doesn't give you what you thought, you feel like all the boxes on your list weren't checked off. The second time, you know what you're going to get, so you're not hoping that something else is going to happen and you can just settle down and watch the movie that was made and find all the good things that are there rather than looking for it to be some other movie you made up in your head.

That's what it was like for me when I watched SUPERMAN (1978). I went to the theatre on opening day, in the morning, and while I enjoyed the movie, it did a lot of things that I wasn't expecting and not the things I was expecting. So I stayed in my seat (you could do that) and watched the movie a second time--this time not expecting to see stuff that wasn't in the movie--and watching the movie for itself and judging it for what it was rather than what it wasn't trying to be. I got a lot more out of it the second time through and now I can't imagine it being any other movie than what it is.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I disagree that WW84 isn't putting the franchise on its last legs. WW3 will absolutely open a lot lower than WW1 because of the negative response to WW2. I'd be surprised if WW3 opens any higher than $50 million, but it depends on how fresh people's memories are 3 years from now. In any event, the reason I brought up Snyder is that people LIKED his badass take on Diana.

A franchise being on its last legs would mean the WW movies end, they don't get sequels and this is about the DCEU - you made it sound as if WW '84 failing killed the current DCEU as we know it. Sure, but that's not the only valid take on Wonder Woman. Right, WW '84 could make the sequel less excited for the public about the third movie since expectations weren't met.

I don't think the DC characters have to be "cheesy" as you put it. I don't think there IS a right amount of "cheesiness" that Wonder Woman is "supposed" to have. Perhaps superheroes were corny and cheesy when they were created in the 30s and 40s, but that doesn't mean they HAVE to stay that way. Holding the DC characters to that old sensibility whether it be the Golden/Silver Age comics, the Christopher Reeve movie, or the Lynda Carter TV show is what keeps the DC characters from being embraced today. Except for Batman, they come off looking noticeably less cool than the Marvel characters. 1938 is over. 1978 is over.

Wonder Woman hasn't stopped being cheesy or corny and neither have many super-heroes. It's part of the charm. "Supposed" as if the character hasn't been defined by that sort of thing for a long time. Have you read Perez Wonder Woman? Or Gail Simone's? She wrote Wonder Woman in 2007, she had talking gorillas as Diana's supporting cast.



Super-heroes don't have to stay cheesy but they don't have to not be, either. It's telling that you go those examples when super-hero adaptions being cheesy are far more prevelant then they are.

That superhero movies have to be colorful and cheesy is how we got Superman 3 and Joel Schumacher's Batman. And Wonder Woman 1984.

Connoting cheesiness with bad movies, when that's not always the case. The Donner Superman movies were cheesy, so were Raimi's Spider-man, Guardians of the Galaxy, the new Suicide Squad is banking on cheesiness, Iron Man 2 and 3, Thor: Ragnarok, Shazam and Aquaman. Wanda Vision is being marketed cheesy AF.

Man of Steel and B vs S are bad movies, does that make serious super-hero films bad? No.

I'm not looking for the Snyderverse to return. I didn't agree with everything Snyder did, but I was never bored by his movies.

Except you believe he's coming roaring back to the DCEU like the good ol' days and are fine with the current era ending. I'm not convinced.

As I said, publicly no one at Warners will criticize Jenkins, but actions speak louder than words. We'll know how Warners truly feels if they want to continue to work with Jenkins after WW3. We'll also see how Disney responds regarding Star Wars Rogue Squadron if Cleopatra and WW3 underperform.

You say that as if this is common knowledge when all it is is wishful thinking. The evidence we do have disputes this, and is denied. But they haven't done that yet the argument being raised assumes this is a fact based on nothing. WW '84 is out and Disney's not dumping her.

No response to what Hamada said about Snyder, because if there's anyone who'd be out of that loop is the person leading the DCEU at WB.

[green_garnish]

the argument being raised assumes this is a fact based on nothing. WW '84 is out and Disney's not dumping her.

No response to what Hamada said about Snyder, because if there's anyone who'd be out of that loop is the person leading the DCEU at WB.

I cannot begin to describe how much I enjoyed this response.

[green_garnish]

I disagree that WW84 isn't putting the franchise on its last legs. WW3 will absolutely open a lot lower than WW1 because of the negative response to WW2. I'd be surprised if WW3 opens any higher than $50 million, but it depends on how fresh people's memories are 3 years from now. In any event, the reason I brought up Snyder is that people LIKED his badass take on Diana.

I don't think its on its last legs, but WW84 certainly puts the DCEU in a weaker position than it was, and would have done so even if it could have had a theatrical release,

It's kind of ironic, really, that all this leaves Aquaman in the strongest position in the DCEU.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The MCU Spider-man films aren't afraid of being cheesy. This is how Far From Home began.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

A franchise being on its last legs would mean the WW movies end, they don't get sequels and this is about the DCEU - you made it sound as if WW '84 failing killed the current DCEU as we know it. Sure, but that's not the only valid take on Wonder Woman. Right, WW '84 could make the sequel less excited for the public about the third movie since expectations weren't met.



Wonder Woman hasn't stopped being cheesy or corny and neither have many super-heroes. It's part of the charm. "Supposed" as if the character hasn't been defined by that sort of thing for a long time. Have you read Perez Wonder Woman? Or Gail Simone's? She wrote Wonder Woman in 2007, she had talking gorillas as Diana's supporting cast.


Super-heroes don't have to stay cheesy but they don't have to not be, either. It's telling that you go those examples when super-hero adaptions being cheesy are far more prevelant then they are.



Connoting cheesiness with bad movies, when that's not always the case. The Donner Superman movies were cheesy, so were Raimi's Spider-man, Guardians of the Galaxy, the new Suicide Squad is banking on cheesiness, Iron Man 2 and 3, Thor: Ragnarok, Shazam and Aquaman. Wanda Vision is being marketed cheesy AF.

Man of Steel and B vs S are bad movies, does that make serious super-hero films bad? No.



Except you believe he's coming roaring back to the DCEU like the good ol' days and are fine with the current era ending. I'm not convinced.



You say that as if this is common knowledge when all it is is wishful thinking. The evidence we do have disputes this, and is denied. But they haven't done that yet the argument being raised assumes this is a fact based on nothing. WW '84 is out and Disney's not dumping her.

No response to what Hamada said about Snyder, because if there's anyone who'd be out of that loop is the person leading the DCEU at WB.

I didn't say Disney was dumping her after a week of Wonder Woman being out. I'm saying if WW84 ends up being considered a turkey (already on its way to that), and Cleopatra underperforms as well, I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney and Kathleen Kennedy reign her in a whole lot even if they keep her on as director. It's not like Kennedy isn't famous for having a heavy hand with directors.

We may have different definitions of "cheesy" because in my definition, cheesy is never a good thing.

Yes, I read Perez's Wonder Woman. No, I did not read Simone's.

I really liked Perez when he was artist and plotter. Once he became full scripter, he showed that scripting was not his forte. However, I don't remember thinking his stories were cheesy, just wordy and boring without his art.

If you read Simone's WW with the talking gorillas and enjoyed it, I'm happy for you. To me, it's the type of **** that DC really needs to stay away from. I don't find that type of "cheesiness" either charming or endearing.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

So two more criticisms of this movie. Kristian Wig was more interesting before she became the villain. I won't say Cheetah, because her final transformation just felt like fan service to make her the comic character. Now I normally enjoy the nods to the fans, but this felt arbitrary. There was no reason for her to be a cheetah, except the nonsensical "apex preditor" comment and her mention of the animal prints earlier.
And Max Lord, well he was sort of , but not really the comic character. Which is okay, but I felt the character and storyline weak, as much as Pascal tried to make it work.

I can’t compare to the comics as I don’t know the full context of what made her “Cheetah” in comic book canon, but I agree; there were subtle hints, but nothing specifically indicating that she should become a...cheetah.

Saw the movie, and the Steve Trevor “rapey” criticisms should not be overlooked, even if we accept that Diana did t have sex with him. It’s awkward and could simply have been handled without a “body possession”. Otherwise, this movie ranks in the middle of my favorite comic book movies list, probably somewhere near the bottom unfortunately, whereas the first movie ranked closer to the top.

[Midvillian1322]

Confused on why people think WW84 is endanger of derailing anything. It's audience and Critics reviews are about on par with Aquaman atm. It could drop more but nobody thought Aquaman was DOA, it along with WW were responsible for saving the DCEU. Now because of Covid WW84 doesn't have the benefit of a huge box office result to bolster itself. But as of now it's basically even with Aquaman review wise. Now I will say I saw wsy more love for Aquaman but again thanks to covid we are digesting all this way different then we did in 2019. Seems silly to think this movie is gonna be thought of as an outright failure while Aquaman was a grandslam. Aquamans edge is box office but that's like comparing apples to oranges with the way WW84 was released.

[CliffHanger2]

Well it's already rated lower than AM on rt if that counts. And it's critical ratings have had a huge drop from it's release date.

AM also didn't have big expectations ppl thought it would bomb straight out and be a critical joke. But it just did better over time. WW84 was the opposite. After the stellar run of it's first movie this is just disastrous.