Wonder Woman 1984 Thoughts SPOILERS

[AnakinFlair]

I don't understand why they gave up so early. MCU didn't have anyone outstanding besides IM in phase one as well. If they have patience it could have been built well.

There is your answer right there. Warner Brothers didn't have patience. They wanted to have a shared universe like Marvel, but they didn't want to take the time to build that universe with stand alone movies for each character. Perhaps that was the initial plan before Green Lantern came out, but once that tanked and Man of Steel proved to be successful yet divisive, they decided to get to Justice League as fast as possible. So we get Batman v Superman, which gives us a new Batman, Wonder Woman, and VERY brief introductions to Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg- and those were less introductions and more of "Hey look! It's Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg!". In the end we only got origin stories for Superman and Wonder Woman, we just see that Batman has existed, and we knew NOTHING about the others.

Now, they want to focus on the characters and tell stand alone movies, and I'm all for that. Sure, maybe build up to a team-up movie again one day. Maybe Flashpoint will do that. But for now they want to focus on the characters, and I see no problem with that.

[AnakinFlair]

I figured maybe the guy who was president was a guy who had wished he was president and he had just taken over the office the day before. That would explain why Ronald Reagan wasn't there. Ronnie was in Hollywood making BEDTIME FOR BONZO II.

The guy didn't behave anything like Reagan (only resembled him a little)--and I think it's a wash as a presidential spoof (he could have been much worse or much better, but was just sort of in-between).

Likewise, Maxwell Lord is so unlike Donald Trump in so many ways, you would really have to be reaching to say he's supposed to be a slander against Trump. Lord is given much more dimension, so we feel sorry for him by the end.

The movie is too good-hearted to put anyone down.

I'd say that maybe they didn't want to tie the movie President to a real-world President and risk insulting fans of Reagan, and just made a guy up. But if you're going to set your movie in the United States in 1984, you need a Reagan behind that desk.

I'll be honest- I didn't think of Donald Trump once while watching Max Lord. Looking back I can see some similarities, but honestly the guy cared about his son too much for me to think he was like Trump.

[Slowpokeking]

There is your answer right there. Warner Brothers didn't have patience. They wanted to have a shared universe like Marvel, but they didn't want to take the time to build that universe with stand alone movies for each character. Perhaps that was the initial plan before Green Lantern came out, but once that tanked and Man of Steel proved to be successful yet divisive, they decided to get to Justice League as fast as possible. So we get Batman v Superman, which gives us a new Batman, Wonder Woman, and VERY brief introductions to Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg- and those were less introductions and more of "Hey look! It's Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg!". In the end we only got origin stories for Superman and Wonder Woman, we just see that Batman has existed, and we knew NOTHING about the others.

Now, they want to focus on the characters and tell stand alone movies, and I'm all for that. Sure, maybe build up to a team-up movie again one day. Maybe Flashpoint will do that. But for now they want to focus on the characters, and I see no problem with that.

Even if we count from MOS, there were 4 years before JL, same with IM1-Avengers. Not to say the DC heroes are more well known. They totally got time to build everything up. MOS was a ok start, it has flaws but not too bad. BVS didn't discard them but made it worse.

But instead they wasted efforts on things like SS(how does that help DCEU) and BVS(Do you see Marvel put Civil War on in phase one) instead of making good origin movies to connect the heroes up first. MOS-MOS2(introduce Batman and WW)-WW(introduce Atlantis)-Aquaman-Flash-JL.

The JL villain was not setup as well. All we got is one deleted scene of Steppenwolf in BVS.

[KabutoRyder]

Forgot (or maybe I blocked it from my memory) but the web swinging on fn lightning bolts was stupid in the trailers and it was stupid in here as well.

[protege]

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I'd give the movie a b. I liked the film. I felt that the narrative lagged in parts. There were certain plot holes, to me. But they were not insurmountable.

I noticed the recurring critique of sexist microaggressions by men. Not unexpected from a Wonder Woman movie, of course.

I noticed that Diana does not have her sword or shield this time. Just saying. Curious.

Kristin Wiig's looking the sexiest I've ever seen her. Then again, I've mainly seen her as a comedic actress.

Pedro Pascal works as Max Lord. There's a component of his arc that's a little sappy (is the son's mom alive? If so... where?), but it was seemingly resolved in a respectable way. (no spoilers).

Fascinating to see things resolved peacefully with Max Lord. It didn't end up with a big explosion or somebody falling to his death.

By the time of the climax, with the TV cameras, I was halfway expecting Diana to take a cue from Steve's statement earlier about doing more than just "stopping" him, and that she'd snap his neck on television like that comics crossover from years ago. It would have led to a darker ending, but of course, it would have also been seen as just doing the same thing as the Snyder Man of Steel climax.

As enacted, the ending was arguably more in line with Wonder Woman's philosophical mission of peace.

There was a throwaway line in the movie, when max was starting to lose it, and alistair wanted to see him, that he asked if it was the mother’s turn to watch him:

[Sacred Knight]

I kinda wish Steve didn't appear as Steve to just Diana. I was hoping more for a situation where the body physically took on Steve's form genuinely in all aspects for the time he was inhabiting it. Really more of a minor quibble though.

In any case, since Gadot and Pine's dynamic is still fire, I'm hoping for a situation in the third movie where Circe has captured Steve's soul, and it never went back to heaven after this event. The climax of part 3 would have WW ascend to goddesshood, with Steve's now free spirit with her. Think it would be a cool way to close out the trilogy.

[kingaliencracker]

I kinda wish Steve didn't appear as Steve to just Diana. I was hoping more for a situation where the body physically took on Steve's form genuinely in all aspects for the time he was inhabiting it. Really more of a minor quibble though.

In any case, since Gadot and Pine's dynamic is still fire, I'm hoping for a situation in the third movie where Circe has captured Steve's soul, and it never went back to heaven after this event. The climax of part 3 would have WW ascend to goddesshood, with Steve's now free spirit with her. Think it would be a cool way to close out the trilogy.

I guess it's never explicitly stated in the movie but my assumption was that Diana still saw Steve physically as the other guy but that she more or less just knew it was Steve's soul inhabiting it. I'm actually not sure why they went this route anyway. Couldn't Steve just come back as Steve?

On the subject, are we going to leave alone that Diana slept with Steve while he was inhabiting the guy's body? I feel like if the situation were reversed - that a guy slept with a woman inhabiting another woman's body - there would be a ton more scrutiny.

[Mark Trail]

Gadot and Pine were good but otherwise I didn't like it at all.

It was too long.
Cheetah's arc was too derivative of Catwoman's in "Batman Returns" and the character was largely wasted (I suspect the producers got nervous about the resemblance to "Cats" and reedited the film) in favor of Max who just wasn't that interestingly written.
The "Reagan wants to nuke the world" thing was just offensive and illogical.
As someone else pointed about above, Diana is basically raping a guy who's been possessed by Steve. She's also putting that guy in danger throughout the movie.
Steve knowing how to fly the invisible jet despite never having flown anything more complicated than a WWI era prop plane was a thinly disguised attempt to keep Pine's agent happy by giving the character someone to do.

I know the movie was set in the 80s but that's no reason to make it more like "Superman III" or "IV" than a modern superhero film.

[matthew]

The problem with the movie started with the long opening flashback to the race. It reminded me of the podracer scene from The Phantom Menace.

Aside from series enders like End Game, no popcorn flick needs to be over 2 hours. This should have been an hour and a half. Cut the opening race scene. Speed up the descent of both villains. Add some freaking New Wave songs.

Honestly ask yourself if you'd ever want to rewatch this again. Meanwhile I've rewatched Sonic the Hedgehog several times, same for Jumanji and it's sequel. Just goes to show how far the genre has fallen.

[Slowpokeking]

The problem with the movie started with the long opening flashback to the race. It reminded me of the podracer scene from The Phantom Menace.

Aside from series enders like End Game, no popcorn flick needs to be over 2 hours. This should have been an hour and a half. Cut the opening race scene. Speed up the descent of both villains. Add some freaking New Wave songs.

Honestly ask yourself if you'd ever want to rewatch this again. Meanwhile I've rewatched Sonic the Hedgehog several times, same for Jumanji and it's sequel. Just goes to show how far the genre has fallen.

That flashback obviously burned a lot of $$$ so the climax fight was like ****.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

As much of a DC fan as I am and want to see their movies do well, Wonder Woman 1984 was just not great. If I had to grade it, I'd give it a B- at best.

The movie was too long and talky and the talky parts were just not that interesting.

It seems to me that because of the success of the first one that Patty Jenkins was given more latitude with this one, and as a result, her faults as a filmmaker were more obvious.

I can understand why audiences in China didn't like it. They said it had too much romance, not enough action. I don't think the movie was very romantic, quite frankly, but the action sequences were no big deal to me.

Another problem with the movie was that I simply didn't FEEL anything for any of the characters. Geoff Johns' script was trying for emotional beats, but none of them landed. Either they felt underdeveloped as in the case of Diana and Steve, or they were so overdone as in the case of Max Lord, that I rolled my eyes. Please keep Johns away from comic book movies going forward. Even his successes like Aquaman weren't due to his scripting, but rather in the kinetic execution of that movie by its director.

Speaking of directing, I can see that Patty Jenkins is simply not a skilled enough filmmaker to nail those wannabe Spielberg transcendent moments. When Steve comes back to life and appears out of nowhere, it's treated like Diana just saw a friend who was returning from summer camp. The camera revolves around them about a hundred times in some clumsy effort to make the moment seem big, but it just doesn't. There was no exuberant joy, no swelling of emotion, nothing. I got more of a lump in my throat from the first movie's No Man's Land scene, but nothing in this movie thrilled or excited me -- and I kept waiting patiently. When Diana renounces her wish, the moment needed to breathe so we could really feel her inner conflict and then sense of loss, but she was just off and running to get the bad guy.

On a technical level, the movie needed a more exciting script, better direction, and tighter editing. Scenes that should have been longer weren't, and scenes where the point was already made went on too long.

The talky, touchy-feely climax where Diana is just laying there talking to the world through her lasso's connection to Max Lord was such a letdown. It reminded me of the CW shows where when Caitlin goes evil on The Flash, they scream at her saying things like "This isn't you!!!" until she gets control of herself. Why the hell would the entire world listen to Diana over the satellite connection in the first place when they had no idea of who she was and had never seen her?

I agree with the earlier post in questioning what criteria Diana uses to come out of hiding and help people. Shopping mall, yes, Holocaust, no?

Also, the Dreamstone powers seemed to have changes in its internal logic throughout the movie. At first, I thought Diana was losing her powers because Cheetah's wish stole some from her, but this didn't seem to be the case since Diana was back at full strength once she renounced her wish. Also, why did Cheetah get 2 wishes again? First to be like Diana, then to be an "apex predator"? It seemed that Max himself got more than one wish even factoring out when he got other people to wish something nice for him.

It's pretty telling that Wonder Woman 1984's Rotten Tomatoes score has dropped since its premiere. It's now no longer Certified Fresh, having dropped to 67% now that the kiss ass early reviewers aren't the only ones who saw it. In other DC RT scores, I did sense an anti-DC/pro-Marvel bias in the critics' scores, but in this case, I do agree with the middling score.

Finally, with all the talk about Zack Snyder's movies being grimdark and dour, I found Diana in this movie to be a real depressed sad sack throughout much of it. She didn't really get those ingratiating moments of joy she got in the first movie -- like seeing a baby or eating ice cream. Gal Gadot is a very charming person in real life like when I see her on Jimmy Fallon, and the script really did not give her a chance to express that side of her. She was happier in World War One during trench warfare!

It's probably for the best that this wasn't released in theaters in the US because the backlash against the movie would be much more pronounced and likely would have had a massive second week drop causing further damage to the DC brand going forward. Now, this movie can die quietly, and HBO Max can tout how "thrilled" they are with how many people watched it -- something that isn't as easily provable like box office results.




Things I didn't need to see: young Max Lord wetting the bed.

[Nyssane]

The problem with the movie started with the long opening flashback to the race. It reminded me of the podracer scene from The Phantom Menace.

Aside from series enders like End Game, no popcorn flick needs to be over 2 hours. This should have been an hour and a half. Cut the opening race scene. Speed up the descent of both villains. Add some freaking New Wave songs.

Honestly ask yourself if you'd ever want to rewatch this again. Meanwhile I've rewatched Sonic the Hedgehog several times, same for Jumanji and it's sequel. Just goes to show how far the genre has fallen.

Or maybe how far you've fallen if you're watching Jumanji 2 several times.

[Slowpokeking]

As much of a DC fan as I am and want to see their movies do well, Wonder Woman 1984 was just not great. If I had to grade it, I'd give it a B- at best.

The movie was too long and talky and the talky parts were just not that interesting.

It seems to me that because of the success of the first one that Patty Jenkins was given more latitude with this one, and as a result, her faults as a filmmaker were more obvious.

I can understand why audiences in China didn't like it. They said it had too much romance, not enough action. I don't think the movie was very romantic, quite frankly, but the action sequences were no big deal to me.

Another problem with the movie was that I simply didn't FEEL anything for any of the characters. Geoff Johns' script was trying for emotional beats, but none of them landed. Either they felt underdeveloped as in the case of Diana and Steve, or they were so overdone as in the case of Max Lord, that I rolled my eyes. Please keep Johns away from comic book movies going forward. Even his successes like Aquaman weren't due to his scripting, but rather in the kinetic execution of that movie by its director.

Speaking of directing, I can see that Patty Jenkins is simply not a skilled enough filmmaker to nail those wannabe Spielberg transcendent moments. When Steve comes back to life and appears out of nowhere, it's treated like Diana just saw a friend who was returning from summer camp. The camera revolves around them about a hundred times in some clumsy effort to make the moment seem big, but it just doesn't. There was no exuberant joy, no swelling of emotion, nothing. I got more of a lump in my throat from the first movie's No Man's Land scene, but nothing in this movie thrilled or excited me -- and I kept waiting patiently. When Diana renounces her wish, the moment needed to breathe so we could really feel her inner conflict and then sense of loss, but she was just off and running to get the bad guy.

On a technical level, the movie needed a more exciting script, better direction, and tighter editing. Scenes that should have been longer weren't, and scenes where the point was already made went on too long.

The talky, touchy-feely climax where Diana is just laying there talking to the world through her lasso's connection to Max Lord was such a letdown. It reminded me of the CW shows where when Caitlin goes evil on The Flash, they scream at her saying things like "This isn't you!!!" until she gets control of herself. Why the hell would the entire world listen to Diana over the satellite connection in the first place when they had no idea of who she was and had never seen her?

I agree with the earlier post in questioning what criteria Diana uses to come out of hiding and help people. Shopping mall, yes, Holocaust, no?

Also, the Dreamstone powers seemed to have changes in its internal logic throughout the movie. At first, I thought Diana was losing her powers because Cheetah's wish stole some from her, but this didn't seem to be the case since Diana was back at full strength once she renounced her wish. Also, why did Cheetah get 2 wishes again? First to be like Diana, then to be an "apex predator"? It seemed that Max himself got more than one wish even factoring out when he got other people to wish something nice for him.

It's pretty telling that Wonder Woman 1984's Rotten Tomatoes score has dropped since its premiere. It's now no longer Certified Fresh, having dropped to 67% now that the kiss ass early reviewers aren't the only ones who saw it. In other DC RT scores, I did sense an anti-DC/pro-Marvel bias in the critics' scores, but in this case, I do agree with the middling score.

Finally, with all the talk about Zack Snyder's movies being grimdark and dour, I found Diana in this movie to be a real depressed sad sack throughout much of it. She didn't really get those ingratiating moments of joy she got in the first movie -- like seeing a baby or eating ice cream. Gal Gadot is a very charming person in real life like when I see her on Jimmy Fallon, and the script really did not give her a chance to express that side of her. She was happier in World War One during trench warfare!

It's probably for the best that this wasn't released in theaters in the US because the backlash against the movie would be much more pronounced and likely would have had a massive second week drop causing further damage to the DC brand going forward. Now, this movie can die quietly, and HBO Max can tout how "thrilled" they are with how many people watched it -- something that isn't as easily provable like box office results.




Things I didn't need to see: young Max Lord wetting the bed.

Script is the biggest problem, it shouldn't try to set such a HUGE theme because it would be silly to solve it in a Superhero movie.

Everyone could make more wishes, just would lose more, Max made it clear.

[Nyssane]

I agree with the earlier post in questioning what criteria Diana uses to come out of hiding and help people. Shopping mall, yes, Holocaust, no?

There's a photo in the beginning of Diana with the Oddfellows in World War II prisoner garb. That pretty much confirms Diana was there to help people during the Holocaust, too.

[Slowpokeking]

I don't think we have to be too serious with superheroes not saving real life crisis.