Wonder Woman 1984 Thoughts SPOILERS

[Steel Inquisitor]

I didn't say Disney was dumping her after a week of Wonder Woman being out. I'm saying if WW84 ends up being considered a turkey (already on its way to that), and Cleopatra underperforms as well, I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney and Kathleen Kennedy reign her in a whole lot even if they keep her on as director. It's not like Kennedy isn't famous for having a heavy hand with directors.

That's moving the goal posts, the original argument was that WW '84 being a failure was catastrophic for the current DCEU as a project with Hamada at the helm. As others have stated its getting reactions like Aquaman, she's in a better than Superman in the DCEU. He didn't even get a sequel before his franchise got taken over by Batman and never recovered. It may not be hitting a billion but as explained WB isn't measuring this with pre Covid expectations. And why are you rushing to these "what if" scenarios? What are you basing these on facts wise? Of course WB and Disney will alter plans if Jenkins fails that badly, but she's hardly there. Its debatable WW '84 is a bomb, it may be polarising but so was Man of Steel - unless the argument is that WB has hypocritical standards with women directors which is a valid but as of yet they haven't done that in these circumstances. Instead they green lit her sequel and Jenkins is locked in on Star Wars. Cleopatra hasn't started preproduction yet, hold your horses until it starts bombing at the box office. Kennedy is like Fiege, she gives directors free reign until they go too far, that's what happened with Solo and WW '84 is hardly The Book of Henry to take her off the project before things coalesce.

We may have different definitions of "cheesy" because in my definition, cheesy is never a good thing.

We have the same definitions the part where we're disagreeing is if the cheesiness is liked and when it isn't - that's subjective. Liking something has nothing to do with it being cheesy. All the movies I listed are cheesy. So are the Evil Dead movies and tv show, aside from the recent remake/reboot. Cheesiness and corniness is riddled in super-hero media.

Yes, I read Perez's Wonder Woman. No, I did not read Simone's.

I really liked Perez when he was artist and plotter. Once he became full scripter, he showed that scripting was not his forte. However, I don't remember thinking his stories were cheesy, just wordy and boring without his art.

Super-hero comic books are classic cheese, Perez's made a career out of doing that and his WW run is no exception. How Diana stopped Max Lord in '84? Lifted from how she dealt with Ares during comic run. She's like Captain America, if she thinks an enemy is worth talked down she'll do it, this is a defining feature for her in the comics. The Diana from Perez run was more like the version in '84 then the WW1 film.

If you read Simone's WW with the talking gorillas and enjoyed it, I'm happy for you. To me, it's the type of shit that DC really needs to stay away from. I don't find that type of "cheesiness" either charming or endearing.

Which is fine, but that's the character and the mythos of Wonder Woman. That's something she never lost and she's not an exception. Being a super-hero universe DC is filled with characters who do this like she does, Superman being a prominent example. Shazam is another. Aquaman is really, really cheesy, it has a sentient octopus playing the drums as a gag.



DC can't stay away from it since that's why people like their characters, they can update it and do well - like what Riami did with his Spider-man movies. Do I need to bring up the Green Goblin who looked like a Power Rangers villain and acted like the Joker? Cheesiness isn't just talking gorillas, that was just an example that the cheese never left the comics.

[Punisher007]

I did too. Lord is now well set up for future films as an anti-hero type or a villain if they want to go in that direction. Given that he's played by a somewhat bigger actor we could see more of him one day. That said a lot of people who don't read the comics have no idea who Max Lord is/was and thought they spent too much time on him. (Esp. if they watch Marvel movies where the villains are just there to be defeated)

What were the reasons that Marvel dumped Jenkins for Thor 2? Creative differences? Did they not think she could handle a big budget film? Portman pretty much walked away over them firing Jenkins and then was shown to be "proven right" when Jenkins made Wonder Woman.

It seems like Jenkins and Marvel just had different ideas for Thor 2. And they ultimately couldn’t reconcile the two visions, so they parted ways. Patty was pretty respectful and classy when talking about it last time I heard her do so.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Dang. 5.5 on imdb with 100k votes, damn.

Seeing Jenkins and Johns involved in the creative process not surprised this turned out bad. I am beginning to question if Johns was ever a good writer even in comic books tbh

[SiegePerilous02]

Dang. 5.5 on imdb with 100k votes, damn.

Seeing Jenkins and Johns involved in the creative process not surprised this turned out bad. I am beginning to question if Johns was ever a good writer even in comic books tbh

Shazam and Aquaman turning out ok, being based primarily on his runs, indicates he can be fine.

[Midvillian1322]

Well it's already rated lower than AM on rt if that counts. And it's critical ratings have had a huge drop from it's release date.

AM also didn't have big expectations ppl thought it would bomb straight out and be a critical joke. But it just did better over time. WW84 was the opposite. After the stellar run of it's first movie this is just disastrous.

I will also admit there wasn't a toxic hate reaction to Aquaman either. Some people didn't like it but I don't think they hated it. A certain portion of the audience seems to hate this movie. Which I don't get , it's not great. But I also got enough out of it to not hate it. Gal and Pine were great together if you don't think too deeply about the rape stuff. Pascal and Wigg prior to her change were all really fun characters. It was the story and bad action that brought the movie down.. character work was good for me.. Hearing BvS fans call WW84 boring is perplexing to me. BvS had way better action in but there wasn't alot. There was long dragging parts of that movie. My little brother literally fell asleep both time we tried watching BvS.(Once in theaters and then again at home with the Utlimate cut).

[Username taken]

I will also admit there wasn't a toxic hate reaction to Aquaman either. Some people didn't like it but I don't think they hated it. A certain portion of the audience seems to hate this movie. Which I don't get , it's not great. But I also got enough out of it to not hate it. Gal and Pine were great together if you don't think too deeply about the rape stuff. Pascal and Wigg prior to her change were all really fun characters. It was the story and bad action that brought the movie down.. character work was good for me.. Hearing BvS fans call WW84 boring is perplexing to me. BvS had way better action in but there wasn't alot. There was long dragging parts of that movie. My little brother literally fell asleep both time we tried watching BvS.(Once in theaters and then again at home with the Utlimate cut).

Yeah, I think the hate WW84 is getting is a bit much.

Even on social media people are tearing it apart.

It really isn’t the worst DCEU movie...not at all.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yeah, I think the hate WW84 is getting is a bit much.

Even on social media people are tearing it apart.

It really isn’t the worst DCEU movie...not at all.

It's definitely a let down, but I'd consider it middle of the pack than outright bad. The best DCEU films so far are WW, Aquaman, Shazam and BOP, with the absolute nadir being BvS, JL and Squad. I'd put this and MoS (in that order) right in the middle.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I will also admit there wasn't a toxic hate reaction to Aquaman either. Some people didn't like it but I don't think they hated it. A certain portion of the audience seems to hate this movie. Which I don't get , it's not great. But I also got enough out of it to not hate it. Gal and Pine were great together if you don't think too deeply about the rape stuff. Pascal and Wigg prior to her change were all really fun characters. It was the story and bad action that brought the movie down.. character work was good for me.. Hearing BvS fans call WW84 boring is perplexing to me. BvS had way better action in but there wasn't alot. There was long dragging parts of that movie. My little brother literally fell asleep both time we tried watching BvS.(Once in theaters and then again at home with the Utlimate cut).

Aquaman wasn't a woman, he was a buff dude who was masculine and his movie wasn't directed by a woman. It makes sense for BvS fans to hate '84 since it's a story which is the complete opposite for Snyder's aesthetics, they don't want the DCEU to look like '84.

[Lightning Rider]

BvS had way better action in but there wasn't alot. There was long dragging parts of that movie. My little brother literally fell asleep both time we tried watching BvS.(Once in theaters and then again at home with the Utlimate cut).

BvS had some long dragging parts, but fans (like myself) found some of those talky scenes more engaging. There's more of a tension throughout the film, a building conflict. Whereas in WW, Lord is doing the same thing over and over again in isolation, while many of Diana's scenes don't have much to do with the broader conflict.

(That's not me trying to convince fans who didn't like BvS that it was awesome, just trying to analyze the differences)

[ComicJunkie21]

Yeah the amount of hate its getting is pretty bad and I think there is an unfortunate trend of female superhero films getting the raw end of the deal. Its like they have to be damn near perfect otherwise they are torn apart and ridiculed worse than their male counterparts films of equal quality. WW84, BOP, and Captain Marvel all received unfounded amounts of hate. People will point to the first WW but thats one film out of 4 and women had to rally together to make that film successful and none of the films were anywhere near the worst movie ever.

From seeing this, I'm worried about Black Widow and Captain Marvel 2. I personally don't see CM2 doing well, Ive never really been a fan and always thought the first film doing well was a result of good marketing by Marvel hyping up the idea that she would have a big part to play in Endgame (they lied to us). I dont hear people really talk about the character. For Black Widow, I don't know if the interest is there based on how her story ended in Endgame and tbh she should've had her own film a long time ago and this has rubbed many the wrong way(How the heck did antman get a movie before her?).

If the next few female films perform poorly or are criticized heavily even though quality is average, then women need to be the ones to speak up and drive these films to success like they did the first WW because then it will be apparent that the average male is not the audience to help keep female superheroes on the screen.

[Maestro 216]

Maybe it would be more liked if Diana broke Lord's neck oh wait Superman beat her.

[Frontier]

BvS had some long dragging parts, but fans (like myself) found some of those talky scenes more engaging. There's more of a tension throughout the film, a building conflict. Whereas in WW, Lord is doing the same thing over and over again in isolation, while many of Diana's scenes don't have much to do with the broader conflict.

(That's not me trying to convince fans who didn't like BvS that it was awesome, just trying to analyze the differences)

Lord doing the same thing over and over again was building up his understanding and control of his magic and the effect it was having on the world, while Diana's scenes were building up her bond to Steve, her loss of her powers, and how that dovetailed into the main conflict.

[Lightning Rider]

Lord doing the same thing over and over again was building up his understanding and control of his magic and the effect it was having on the world, while Diana's scenes were building up her bond to Steve, her loss of her powers, and how that dovetailed into the main conflict.

That's all true, I just don't think it felt engaging enough for people.

[Agent Z]

Not sure why anyone is mentioning BvS fans when the majority of the hate isn't coming from them and consensus on this site is they're a minority anyway.

[Midvillian1322]

BvS had some long dragging parts, but fans (like myself) found some of those talky scenes more engaging. There's more of a tension throughout the film, a building conflict. Whereas in WW, Lord is doing the same thing over and over again in isolation, while many of Diana's scenes don't have much to do with the broader conflict.

(That's not me trying to convince fans who didn't like BvS that it was awesome, just trying to analyze the differences)

I understand peole who liked or loved BvS don't think it was boring. But they also have to admit that it wasn't well received by Critcs or Audiences. And one of the most common complaints by critics and audiences was that it's boring. Yea some of the Critiques of Snyder tone and stuff gets talked about more around here. The average person who didn't it like from my experience just say it's boring.

Anyway I found WW84 characters way more engaging then BvS.