Wonder Woman 1984 Thoughts SPOILERS

[AnakinFlair]

Even if we count from MOS, there were 4 years before JL, same with IM1-Avengers. Not to say the DC heroes are more well known. They totally got time to build everything up. MOS was a ok start, it has flaws but not too bad. BVS didn't discard them but made it worse.

But instead they wasted efforts on things like SS(how does that help DCEU) and BVS(Do you see Marvel put Civil War on in phase one) instead of making good origin movies to connect the heroes up first. MOS-MOS2(introduce Batman and WW)-WW(introduce Atlantis)-Aquaman-Flash-JL.

The JL villain was not setup as well. All we got is one deleted scene of Steppenwolf in BVS.

They panicked at the reaction to Man of Steel. I don't think it performed as well as they were expecting, and instead of taking a moment to analyze WHY, they plowed ahead and decided to throw Batman and Wonder Woman in the sequel.

I guess it's never explicitly stated in the movie but my assumption was that Diana still saw Steve physically as the other guy but that she more or less just knew it was Steve's soul inhabiting it. I'm actually not sure why they went this route anyway. Couldn't Steve just come back as Steve?

On the subject, are we going to leave alone that Diana slept with Steve while he was inhabiting the guy's body? I feel like if the situation were reversed - that a guy slept with a woman inhabiting another woman's body - there would be a ton more scrutiny.

When they go back to the guy's apartment, Diana remarks that 'I only see you.' It's never explicitly said, but I think for her, all she sees is Steve Trevor, because that is what she wished for. But Steve can still see the other guy, because he was just brought back, and MAYBE he realizes it's wrong to take this guys life. The thing is, they really never do focus on that, to the movie's detriment.

And for me, this wasn't a case of Steve and the other guy existing in the same body, with the other guy's mind just buried deep down. This was a case of Steve taking over the guy's body, and that guy CEASED TO EXIST. For all intents and purposes, he was Steve Trevor up until Diana renounced her wish. So I don't see it as Diana raping someone.

Speaking of directing, I can see that Patty Jenkins is simply not a skilled enough filmmaker to nail those wannabe Spielberg transcendent moments. When Steve comes back to life and appears out of nowhere, it's treated like Diana just saw a friend who was returning from summer camp. The camera revolves around them about a hundred times in some clumsy effort to make the moment seem big, but it just doesn't. There was no exuberant joy, no swelling of emotion, nothing. I got more of a lump in my throat from the first movie's No Man's Land scene, but nothing in this movie thrilled or excited me -- and I kept waiting patiently. When Diana renounces her wish, the moment needed to breathe so we could really feel her inner conflict and then sense of loss, but she was just off and running to get the bad guy.

It's probably for the best that this wasn't released in theaters in the US because the backlash against the movie would be much more pronounced and likely would have had a massive second week drop causing further damage to the DC brand going forward. Now, this movie can die quietly, and HBO Max can tout how "thrilled" they are with how many people watched it -- something that isn't as easily provable like box office results.

The talky, touchy-feely climax where Diana is just laying there talking to the world through her lasso's connection to Max Lord was such a letdown. It reminded me of the CW shows where when Caitlin goes evil on The Flash, they scream at her saying things like "This isn't you!!!" until she gets control of herself. Why the hell would the entire world listen to Diana over the satellite connection in the first place when they had no idea of who she was and had never seen her?

I really do wonder how we would all be reacting if this had been a normal year, with a normal movie release schedule. Would people still think what they think? Would they think it was better than they do now? Or would they be saying that Black Widow was the superior female-led action movie?

As for Jenkins, she has said recently that she doesn't know if she's coming back for a third movie due to the whole mess of WB releasing all these movies on HBO Max. But if the reviews keep getting worse, I don't think WB will let her come back.

As for Diana's speech- much like the particle beam satellite let Max 'touch' everyone (and boy wasn't THAT set up horribly), I figure that the lasso's power, channelled through Max, was touching everyone as well, compelling them all to see and speak the truth.

Honestly, I'm starting to see the flaw in introducing WW during WWI and later claiming she was inactive for the next 100 years but technically she was but to what extent, and how effective was she when WWII happened and every war thereafter? Did she choose when to be involved and when to not be? It's not a great look. The DCEU is long broken but this movie along with AC and SS are the remnants of this verse so as an audience we still expect some level of coherency but it seems each movie's goal is now to break this verse even further until its not worth the tissue on which it was planned.

I think with this movie they are throwing the 'I was inactive for a century' out the window. Even telling the kids 'Shh! It's a secret!' wouldn't actually keep her a secret.

My thoughts.

While watching, I was enjoying it. Gadot was born to play Wonder Woman and the opening mall scene was very fun. Unlike some others I thought the villains were well handled. Most of the questions I had while watching it were answered relatively quickly, such as how Lord could just take the Emir's security detail and what was happening with Diana's powers.

Those goons at the mall were the most horribly inept criminals I've ever seen. They were hilarious, but the fact that the one guy lost it and immediately went to holding a kid over the railing while his partners were all like "No! Don't Do It!" had me chuckling.

[ZeroBG82]

Lastly, the opening scene on Themyscera played up the theme of cheating and taking shortcuts not being the way to win, and the wishes seemed to be a good continuation of that,, but in the end the theme was changed to the difference between lies and truth, and cheating and shortcuts seemed to be forgotten, so that opening scene basically went to waste.
.

They're related, I think. The significance of the opening isn't just that cheating is bad, but WHY Diana cheated. She was lying to herself, had convinced herself that she deserved to win even when she didn't earn it. Her own hubris cost her the win, but rather than accept the disappointment and frustration, rather than learning from her failure and growing as a person and athlete, or put another way, to do the hard work of improving, she took the shortcut. And then tried to blame others for denying her, rather than accepting that she hadn't measured up


Max and Barbara both have the same situation later. Both lie to themselves, convince themselves that their lives would be better if they just had whatever they feel the world is denying them. They see their problems as being external, rather than internal. Neither can grow or improve themselves because neither is willing to sacrifice, put in the work to change. They both would rather take the easy road.

Steve is the most telling of the wishes. Diana hasn't cheated anything, so where is the lie? Diana is wallowing in her loss. She even tells Steve, right at the end, that she will never love again. Why? Because it's easy. She doesn't have to grapple with her loss, or her grief if she never moves on. She never has to confront the world on it's terms, or risk rejection or failure. She never has to risk living, when she clings to Steve's memory. Diana's lie is that she can't move on. It's why she grabs so fiercely at the shortcut, when Steve returns. It's selfish, and holding her back rather than moving her forward. But it's easy and feels good, so she is hesitant to give it up.

But in the end she's the hero. She sees the truth, and rather than hide from it she accepts it. Takes the hard path, the path of work and pain and duty. She gives up what's easy for the sake of others, yes, but also because she can never be her best when she holds herself back.

[choptop]

Meanwhile I've rewatched Sonic the Hedgehog several times, same for Jumanji and it's sequel. Just goes to show how far the genre has fallen.

And you lost me....

[CliffHanger2]

I didn't hate it but I can see why ppl are saying it's bad. Lack of real villains and the silly good-looking woman in glasses trope.

Oh nobody realizes she's attractive until she takes off her glasses and puts on a nice dress lol.

I also didn't get how this was supposed to be a knock on Trump either. Gadot and Wigg pretty much saved it from being trash but yeah. Def not as strong as the first movie.

[Castle]

I have a question to those who have watched it. please how truly goofy is this film, is it really like MCU goofy? I am seeing some reviews saying it was goofy and cartoony. just honest answer so I can prepare myself before I watch it?

[Slowpokeking]

They panicked at the reaction to Man of Steel. I don't think it performed as well as they were expecting, and instead of taking a moment to analyze WHY, they plowed ahead and decided to throw Batman and Wonder Woman in the sequel.

MoS got AWESOME action, very good cast and design.

The bad reviews all came from its overly dark and gritty setting of "world hates Superman" garbage, even turned Jonathan Kent into a jerk who would let kids drown.

But BVS didn't remove these, instead it continued such route and with a dumb "Martha" resolution.

[Slowpokeking]

I have a question to those who have watched it. please how truly goofy is this film, is it really like MCU goofy? I am seeing some reviews saying it was goofy and cartoony. just honest answer so I can prepare myself before I watch it?

Hard to say. Maybe something like GotG?

[Hypestyle]

I hope that part 3 introduced a Wonder Girl character. I predict that it will be Cassie, but I personally wish that Donna were involved. But at least she's a character on the Titans show.

[ZeroBG82]

I have a question to those who have watched it. please how truly goofy is this film, is it really like MCU goofy? I am seeing some reviews saying it was goofy and cartoony. just honest answer so I can prepare myself before I watch it?

It didn't remind me at all of the MCU, honestly. It reminded me of the Raimi Spider-Man films. Embracing moments of cheese at times, but not in a way that stretches to parody or disrespect for the character.

[Killerbee911]

They panicked at the reaction to Man of Steel. I don't think it performed as well as they were expecting, and instead of taking a moment to analyze WHY, they plowed ahead and decided to throw Batman and Wonder Woman in the sequel.

I don't think that was a mistake and overall plan to build quickly and expand out wasn't a bad idea, And BvS did it job as well. It was justice league was the one they need to sit back and refocus on.

When they go back to the guy's apartment, Diana remarks that 'I only see you.' It's never explicitly said, but I think for her, all she sees is Steve Trevor, because that is what she wished for. But Steve can still see the other guy, because he was just brought back, and MAYBE he realizes it's wrong to take this guys life. The thing is, they really never do focus on that, to the movie's detriment.

And for me, this wasn't a case of Steve and the other guy existing in the same body, with the other guy's mind just buried deep down. This was a case of Steve taking over the guy's body, and that guy CEASED TO EXIST. For all intents and purposes, he was Steve Trevor up until Diana renounced her wish. So I don't see it as Diana raping someone.

This comic fan or person who watches a ton of scifi complaint, I don't think most people spend the time consider the implications of Steve taking over the guys body.

I really do wonder how we would all be reacting if this had been a normal year, with a normal movie release schedule. Would people still think what they think? Would they think it was better than they do now? Or would they be saying that Black Widow was the superior female-led action movie?

As for Jenkins, she has said recently that she doesn't know if she's coming back for a third movie due to the whole mess of WB releasing all these movies on HBO Max. But if the reviews keep getting worse, I don't think WB will let her come back.

I don't see why we would be reacting differently, either you like a movie or you don't. The only thing different right now is with a positive movie opening you can sell a narrative but with movie's main viewership being at home. You don't have the movie made 500 million to bail it out in convos about its flaws but the samething happen to Mulan as well. The thing that is hurt Wonder Woman the most right now is people the expectation that this is the first blockbuster movie and while it is a blockbuster it is more something that dominates it two-week theater window. People are expecting this to be Fast & Furious, Endgame, Jurassic World when it is just Antman.

[CliffHanger2]

I have a question to those who have watched it. please how truly goofy is this film, is it really like MCU goofy? I am seeing some reviews saying it was goofy and cartoony. just honest answer so I can prepare myself before I watch it?

Honestly it could have benefited from some intentional humor. It took itself a little too serious imo.

[AnakinFlair]

I have a question to those who have watched it. please how truly goofy is this film, is it really like MCU goofy? I am seeing some reviews saying it was goofy and cartoony. just honest answer so I can prepare myself before I watch it?

It has goofy moments, but it's nowhere near as goofy as, say, Thor: Ragnarok.

I hope that part 3 introduced a Wonder Girl character. I predict that it will be Cassie, but I personally wish that Donna were involved. But at least she's a character on the Titans show.

Cassie is my Wonder Girl- she's the one I grew up reading. But I honestly don't think we'll ever see a true Cassie Sandsmark in live action. In an era where studios are all about inclusiveness, and they want representation in these movies, they are not going to choose to put a blonde haired, blue eyed girl as Wonder Girl. We'll either get a new version of Donna, or they'll make the new Brazillian Wonder Woman into Wonder Girl for a movie, perhaps to groom her to take over the series if Gadot wishes to leave. Or they'll do what they keep doing and make Cassie a different race, in which case she's not my Cassie.

MoS got AWESOME action, very good cast and design.

The bad reviews all came from its overly dark and gritty setting of "world hates Superman" garbage, even turned Jonathan Kent into a jerk who would let kids drown.

But BVS didn't remove these, instead it continued such route and with a dumb "Martha" resolution.

I'm not disagreeing- I liked Man of Steel. But the fact is the studio was expecting it to do better than it did, and they panicked when it didn't.

[Castle]

It has goofy moments, but it's nowhere near as goofy as, say, Thor: Ragnarok.


.

It didn't remind me at all of the MCU, honestly. It reminded me of the Raimi Spider-Man films. Embracing moments of cheese at times, but not in a way that stretches to parody or disrespect for the character.

Hard to say. Maybe something like GotG?

Thanks but no way is this GOTG level of goofy.

I was suppose to see it today but I decided to wait till tomorrow so I can watch it with my siblings, however I have been watching some clips on youtube. I have seen some of the cheetah fight and I have to agree with some of the common criticism I have been reading. The CGI is not great.

I don't know what happened there, just from an honest objective criticism. WB movies are home of some of the best technical movies, was Patty going for this deliberately because she wanted it to look more comic bookie? I am confused why the CGI is not good there, is not like WB did not have the money.

[titanfan]

When Max Lord's son was making his first wish "for his Father's greatness" there was a bit of music that played that seemed to indicate something happened. Did he gain powers and not realize it yet? Were they setting him up to be Max Lord (Jr)--that is the Max from JLI and possibly future neck-snap recipient?

[ZeroBG82]

. Lack of real villains and the silly good-looking woman in glasses trope.

Oh nobody realizes she's attractive until she takes off her glasses and puts on a nice dress lol.

That wasn't at all what the film was doing. In fact, it subverted the trope, to an extent. The point of Barbara Minerva in the film is that she was ALWAYS attractive. What was holding her back from being "cool" and "popular" were her own crippling insecurities. She was the only one who thought she wasn't attractive, and it colored her behavior with people.