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  1. #2311
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Maybe it makes them feel like they are adding to the legacy?

  2. #2312
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Maybe it makes them feel like they are adding to the legacy?
    Although that also might imply it's in the same continuity even when it isn't. At least that was my first impression of Taylor's.

  3. #2313
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Every single Batman writer seems to want to work ďDark KnightĒ into their title for their standalone project lol.
    It's starting to come across as pretty lazy, imho...
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  4. #2314
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/andykhouri/statu...458675712?s=21
    It’s a false premise. Batman titles don’t deplete resources from other projects; they FUEL other projects.
    Khouri was an editor so he knows what he’s talking about. This is also why despite my annoyance, I’m mostly ok with how many Batbooks there are. Those books are fueling a lot of the smaller books elsewhere within the line.
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  5. #2315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    https://twitter.com/andykhouri/statu...458675712?s=21


    Khouri was an editor so he knows what he’s talking about. This is also why despite my annoyance, I’m mostly ok with how many Batbooks there are. Those books are fueling a lot of the smaller books elsewhere within the line.
    I guess this is a better way of looking at it. If we end up getting a bunch of Bat-books, they might sell well enough for smaller books or more experimental books.

  6. #2316
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    It's starting to come across as pretty lazy, imho...
    It sounds cooler, I guess. I was always partial to his detective side, but that's because I was a big Sherlock Holmes fan and as a kid I didn't realize how terrible those stories are as actual mysteries.

    "Caped Crusader" sounds cooler to me than "Dark Knight," but that's likely because it's more unique as every dark fantasy has a dark knight in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    https://twitter.com/andykhouri/statu...458675712?s=21


    Khouri was an editor so he knows what heís talking about. This is also why despite my annoyance, Iím mostly ok with how many Batbooks there are. Those books are fueling a lot of the smaller books elsewhere within the line.
    While he's absolutely got a better track on this than any of us, perception is reality. When half the line are Bat Books, even if they're fueling the other line, the customer will see something that internal sales metrics don't tell them since they don't see them.

    It's why "we're conducting internal investigations" is never a satisfying answer for PR nightmares even if it's the correct course of action. It doesn't look like anything is being done, so frankly to most it isn't. People need to see results that they can track. They can't track what the Bat Books are funding, so if you just have half the line be Bat Books, well, to the customer it says "if you don't like Gotham, please look forward to the scraps we'll throw you."

    Which is likely the furthest possible thing from the truth. I have no doubt editors there would love an Aquaman book, a Green Arrow book, a Black Canary book, etc.

    But it's the message a lot get from their output. They have to find better ways of conveying that the Bat books fuel other projects if they don't want this to be the perception.
    Last edited by Robanker; 08-01-2021 at 12:02 PM.
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  7. #2317
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Another issue is the lack of better promotion. Even if those Bat-books do end up "fueling other projects", are those other projects going to get a decent marketing push like the Bat-line does?

  8. #2318
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Another issue is the lack of better promotion. Even if those Bat-books do end up "fueling other projects", are those other projects going to get a decent marketing push like the Bat-line does?
    He talks about that too. The market is the market, you can advertise as much as you want, there’s only so many people out there who are going to buy Hawkman. DC knows exactly how well the books do, they can see the numbers. That may change after Black Adam, but movies don’t always provide much benefit to comic sales. There are exceptions, such as King’s Vision book selling out after Wandavision, but Aquaman didn’t really benefit comic saleswise from his billion dollar movie.
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  9. #2319
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    He talks about that too. The market is the market, you can advertise as much as you want, there’s only so many people out there who are going to buy Hawkman. DC knows exactly how well the books do, they can see the numbers. That may change after Black Adam, but movies don’t always provide much benefit to comic sales. There are exceptions, such as King’s Vision book selling out after Wandavision, but Aquaman didn’t really benefit comic saleswise from his billion dollar movie.
    When the draw is a shirtless Jason Momoa, I doubt the book is going to get much unless they started doing shirtless Jason variants and a pinup of him in each issue.

    Hey wait a minute... *Shouts towards my significant other* GET DC ON THE PHONE I'M GONNA MAKE THEM SO MUCH MONEY.
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  10. #2320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Another issue is the lack of better promotion. Even if those Bat-books do end up "fueling other projects", are those other projects going to get a decent marketing push like the Bat-line does?
    It should NEVER be the job of the Batman office nor his fans to fuel other books that are not Batman books.

    That is bad business.

    When does Aquaman get to stand on his OWN? Instead of having to wait for Gardener, Clownhunter, Miracle Molly and Jace Fox to get books?
    Aquaman did not need them to have a billion dollar movie. Wonder Woman did not need them to get almost 800 issues, 1 tv show and 2 movies.
    Raven, Beast Boy, Nubia, Aqualad and Starfire did not need them to get OGNs. That SOLD.
    Flash, Green Arrow, Supergirl, Black Lightning, Vixen, Doom Patrol, Young Justice, Naomi and Superman did not need them for shows.
    It's NOT Batman's job to fuel other books and if that is what they are doing-EVERYONE deserves a pink slip. EVERYBODY.

    If your sales are THAT bad-when do you look within your company to find out WHY.
    Maybe it's time to stop writing for trades and let some books be a single issue story.
    Maybe it's time to accept reality that not everyone cares for Barry or Hal or Wally or John or Tim or Damian.
    Maybe Superman does not need to have his son take over.
    Maybe Titans Academy NEEDS to be about Nightwing and his gang and not echo chamber diversity check characters.
    Maybe JLA should not be Bendis's PET showcase.
    Maybe STOP introducing New Lanterns.
    Maybe Black Manta, Shilo Norman and Aqualad need OGNs not 6 issue minis.
    Maybe we need more OGNs.
    Maybe we need DC Showcase back.

    Not flood the market with Batman books. You are just holding off the iceberg to the Titanic.




    The market is the market, you can advertise as much as you want, there’s only so many people out there who are going to buy Hawkman.
    That is an EXCUSE-what promotion has Hawkman got versus Batman??? A LOT of the issue is a lack of PROMOTION.

    And if everything relies on Batman-it wouldn't matter how well Hawkman sells-his book still depends on Batman.

  11. #2321
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    That is an EXCUSE-what promotion has Hawkman got versus Batman??? A LOT of the issue is a lack of PROMOTION.

    And if everything relies on Batman-it wouldn't matter how well Hawkman sells-his book still depends on Batman.
    You're the first to say that the floppies market doesn't give opportunities to new characters or less known characters. So, why do you think more promotion would change something in the floppies market?

    Also, DC care about the sales. They expect Batman fuel the other books. That doesn't mean they don't care about the sales of other bools.
    Last edited by Konja7; 08-01-2021 at 09:03 PM.

  12. #2322
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    But it's the message a lot get from their output. They have to find better ways of conveying that the Bat books fuel other projects if they don't want this to be the perception.
    Its lose/lose situation I think. If they don't communicate like now then people think that nothing is being done, but imagine if they actually said book X exists only because Batman sold lots of units last quarter? Does that not immediately send the message that DC has no faith in book X selling? Would retailers then order it in large quantities? Would customers be hyped for such book if they are not already a hardcore fans of those characters/creative team?

  13. #2323
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I don’t think we get stuff like Crush & Lobo, Green Arrow/Aquaman, or any of the smaller minis outside of Tom King’s stuff (since that sells well), without the Batman books offsetting the losses.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  14. #2324
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I think that Aquaman/Green Arrow has potential to sell, but stuff like Crush/Lobo is definitely on that list.

  15. #2325
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I think that Aquaman/Green Arrow has potential to sell, but stuff like Crush/Lobo is definitely on that list.
    I will be interested to see if putting two main characters in a book together will help it sell, assuming both fandoms come together to buy it.

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