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  1. #346
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Major, unfortunately you have a very particular demand for what the Justice Society of America book should be and I don't think it's ever going to be exactly what you're asking for. At most, I think you either have to make peace with that or compromise on the vision of the team.

    At best, we'll get a JSA book set in the past with Wonder Woman leading it or one set in the present (possibly with Wonder Woman) akin more to the Johns JSA/Justice Society of America run with a mix of young and old heroes. In both cases, Alan will be a gay man and we'll have more POC/LGBTQ+ representation as part of the roster and storylines being told. I'm not saying you're against any of that per se, but these are the two most likely options.

    But a classic take like the Roy Thomas stuff is just not in the cards. I'm sorry, I know that's frustrating, but that's where the industry has moved.

    Any of the above takes can still be good if you're willing to try them out, but if you plant your feet and demand it adhere to the way you remember it, well it's not happening. No comics today are the same as they were a decade ago. That's the same for every decade that's passed. I know you don't buy a lot of modern comics (or at least from DC) as a result, but that's just the nature of the industry.
    Hear hear.

  2. #347
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Unfortunately, no Justice Society of America book is, unfortunately, better than a crappy Justice Society of America book.

    Didn't buy/read the JSA appearance in Justice League. Didn't trust the writing, and was afraid the JSA itself would get lost in that over-reaching story arc.
    All I know is Alan was inspired by Wonder Woman, assuming that part is still canon

    Alan and Daniel were lovers in the 40s but Daniel died in the train crash when he became Green Lantern, taking after the New 52 version, but set in the 40s

    The JSA was active in World War 2 of the current main Earth. The lineup is in the final page of Metal.

    When Doctor Manhattan undoes the experiment that erased the Justice Society and the Legion of Super-Heroes, the Justice Society (consisting of Atom-Smasher, Cyclone, Damage, Doctor Fate, Doctor Mid-Nite II, Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Hourman II, Jade, Jakeem Thunder and Johnny Thunderbolt, Liberty Belle, Mister Terrific, Obsidian, Power Girl, Sandman II, Stargirl, S.T.R.I.P.E., Wildcat I, and Wildcat II) appears to help Superman.

    Where they are now after that I don't know. Well, Stargirl's getting a story.

    During Metal, Atom, Hourman, Ma Hunkel, and Sandman are dead and revived with Batman's Black Lantern ring

    The Infinite Frontier cover confirms that Obsidian and Jade's return are permanent, not just in Doomsday Clock, so I assume Alan's story later follow the classic story. I asked if Alan's bisexual now and never got an answer so I just assume so.

    That's as much as I can gather.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 01-16-2021 at 03:58 PM.

  3. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    Aquaman is not a big seller but a decent one, it makes a small/medium profit usually, useless bring in a team and not supporting it. The last run was approved by Dc but they knew it could be a risky one. The message DC is sending is sort of, whatever we publish like it or not you have to buy it, otherwise we cancel. Instead of taking a look at sales in last Aquaman they did not listen to the message from readers "we are not liking it we aren't buying" they went straight ahead.
    And that is a STUPID message to send out.

    When you have ZERO control of what books get ordered and placed on the shelf because you are only looking at the direct market.

    Where you are at the MERCY of a store owner.
    If a store owner has bias towards POC, LGBTQA, women, certain brands and certain characters-guess whose books are NOT there. EVEN if you ask for it. That is how petty some are.

    Unless you can assure EVERY title has at least 1-2 copies at every store-you are leaving too many books to a store's bias. That is the mess Archie Comics is dealing with right now.



    People did not stop loving the characters but the stories that they are given! and that applies to all titles that underperform.
    Supergirl fans did NOT ask for her book to be ruined when Bendis showed up. Yet they are being told that they HAVE to buy it no matter how bad?

    How do we get CRAP like Ric Grayson and Heroes in Crisis? This mindset of no matter how bad it is YOU have to buy it or else.

    Especially fans of POC lead books.

    If SALES is all you are going to look at-AT&T need to hand you your pink slip. Because all that is doing is ensuring BAD writers work. How many books did Scott Lobdell do?

    I am the person who wants to know the WHY it did not sale. Especially if it SELLS better as a trade. That tells me the DIRECT MARKET is the issue.

    That tells me the next run of Aquaman needs to be an OGN like Aqualad had.

    If it means the direct market of DC is 50 Batman books and 50 OGNS a year with everyone else-FINE. One good Aquaman story a year is better than 12 bad ones.

  4. #349
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    And that is a STUPID message to send out.

    When you have ZERO control of what books get ordered and placed on the shelf because you are only looking at the direct market.

    Where you are at the MERCY of a store owner.
    If a store owner has bias towards POC, LGBTQA, women, certain brands and certain characters-guess whose books are NOT there. EVEN if you ask for it. That is how petty some are.

    Unless you can assure EVERY title has at least 1-2 copies at every store-you are leaving too many books to a store's bias. That is the mess Archie Comics is dealing with right now.
    Yeah this is a huge problem, tbh. A lot of comic shops are awful places to visit, and the lack of diversity in what they're selling is a big problem. Just like there are really nice shops out there full of cool stuff, there's even more "goblin caves".

    There needs to be some way around that.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 01-16-2021 at 04:49 PM.

  5. #350
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    And yet you continually call for a collection of the 1992 series which was probably the crappiest JSA run of all time.
    That's one opinion.

    And how would you rate Marc Guggenheim's run as the writer of Justice Society of America?


    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    All I know is Alan was inspired by Wonder Woman, assuming that part is still canon

    Alan and Daniel were lovers in the 40s but Daniel died in the train crash when he became Green Lantern, taking after the New 52 version, but set in the 40s

    The JSA was active in World War 2 of the current main Earth. The lineup is in the final page of Metal. . .
    Aside from the JSA being active in WW2, I really don't think those changes were good / necessary. In the old days, Alan didn't need another superhero to inspire him. (His comic book stories actually caused Ma Hunkel to become the Red Tornado and gave Ted Grant the inspiration to become Wildcat.)

    Didn't read Doomsday Clock; didn't read Metal. Haven't decided if I'll try Infinite Frontier. Haven't bought much of anything DC has put out these days, and not seeing much that causes me to change that yet.

  6. #351
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Supergirl fans did NOT ask for her book to be ruined when Bendis showed up. Yet they are being told that they HAVE to buy it no matter how bad?
    I'm no Bendis fan by any stretch of the imagination. However, to be fair, Supergirl had *no* book when he showed up. They had canceled Orlando's run at #20 and it was relaunched like 6(?) months later by Mark Andreyko with #21. He may have been writing the book to coincide with what Bendis was doing in Superman, but it least it got the title back on the shelves.

    What Andreyko and Kevin Maguire were doing was actually pretty damn good; what derailed it was the "Year of the Villain" and subsequent "The Infected" bullsh*t.
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  7. #352
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    Andy in Aquaman is a toddler, an adorable one, she is already a fan favorite, but a toddler. In FS Justice League she made an impact from what I read on social media. She could be big but I am not seeing DC pushing her as Yara for example.
    The trouble with Andy is she can't be an active hero in the present day, as she's literally a new born baby. They'd need to either accelerate her aging like Bart Allen and Jai and Irey West, who are really just a few years old but look like a teenager and preteens respectively, or time displace her from the future. Both are the sort of thing that makes sense for a Flash legacy, but not an Aquaman one.
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  8. #353
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    That's one opinion.

    And how would you rate Marc Guggenheim's run as the writer of Justice Society of America?


    Aside from the JSA being active in WW2, I really don't think those changes were good / necessary. In the old days, Alan didn't need another superhero to inspire him. (His comic book stories actually caused Ma Hunkel to become the Red Tornado and gave Ted Grant the inspiration to become Wildcat.)

    Didn't read Doomsday Clock; didn't read Metal. Haven't decided if I'll try Infinite Frontier. Haven't bought much of anything DC has put out these days, and not seeing much that causes me to change that yet.
    Guggenheim's always the lowest rung on every totem pole, Major. You know this.

  9. #354
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Guggenheim's always the lowest rung on every totem pole, Major. You know this.
    But, does BatmanJones?
    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    And yet you continually call for a collection of the 1992 series which was probably the crappiest JSA run of all time.

  10. #355
    Amazing Member robotgarden's Avatar
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    Infinite Frontier doesn't seem to have any amazing changes for March and April. There's not even a JSA, which I thought there would be. Are there any surprises still hidden? Or will there be changes we can expect further into the summer?

  11. #356
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But, does BatmanJones?
    He's been spared the horrors, Major. Spare him from the fate we've befallen.

  12. #357
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    All I know is Alan was inspired by Wonder Woman, assuming that part is still canon

    Alan and Daniel were lovers in the 40s but Daniel died in the train crash when he became Green Lantern, taking after the New 52 version, but set in the 40s

    The JSA was active in World War 2 of the current main Earth. The lineup is in the final page of Metal.

    When Doctor Manhattan undoes the experiment that erased the Justice Society and the Legion of Super-Heroes, the Justice Society (consisting of Atom-Smasher, Cyclone, Damage, Doctor Fate, Doctor Mid-Nite II, Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Hourman II, Jade, Jakeem Thunder and Johnny Thunderbolt, Liberty Belle, Mister Terrific, Obsidian, Power Girl, Sandman II, Stargirl, S.T.R.I.P.E., Wildcat I, and Wildcat II) appears to help Superman.

    Where they are now after that I don't know. Well, Stargirl's getting a story.

    During Metal, Atom, Hourman, Ma Hunkel, and Sandman are dead and revived with Batman's Black Lantern ring

    The Infinite Frontier cover confirms that Obsidian and Jade's return are permanent, not just in Doomsday Clock, so I assume Alan's story later follow the classic story. I asked if Alan's bisexual now and never got an answer so I just assume so.

    That's as much as I can gather.
    Alan is 100% going to be a closeted gay man who married and had kids because it was the 40s-50s America.
    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    I'm no Bendis fan by any stretch of the imagination. However, to be fair, Supergirl had *no* book when he showed up. They had canceled Orlando's run at #20 and it was relaunched like 6(?) months later by Mark Andreyko with #21. He may have been writing the book to coincide with what Bendis was doing in Superman, but it least it got the title back on the shelves.

    What Andreyko and Kevin Maguire were doing was actually pretty damn good; what derailed it was the "Year of the Villain" and subsequent "The Infected" bullsh*t.
    I actually far preferred the Andrekyo post-Bendis book to Orlando’s Rebirth run which I found tepid at best.

  13. #358
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Alan is 100% going to be a closeted gay man who married and had kids because it was the 40s-50s America.

    I actually far preferred the Andrekyo post-Bendis book to Orlando’s Rebirth run which I found tepid at best.
    Krypto makes all things better. Yeah I didn't love the Orlando run either.

  14. #359
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Considering lack of some titles I think we shouldn't rule out the possibility that DC simply doesn't have a good pitch and creative team to do these titles. When you listen to creators talk they often tend to mention how they love Batman and all that. I'm sure that someone has mentioned JSA or Aquaman in such manner as well, but it doesn't happen very often.

  15. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    I'm no Bendis fan by any stretch of the imagination. However, to be fair, Supergirl had *no* book when he showed up. They had canceled Orlando's run at #20 and it was relaunched like 6(?) months later by Mark Andreyko with #21. He may have been writing the book to coincide with what Bendis was doing in Superman, but it least it got the title back on the shelves.

    What Andreyko and Kevin Maguire were doing was actually pretty damn good; what derailed it was the "Year of the Villain" and subsequent "The Infected" bullsh*t.
    I think skyvolt2000 says that, because Bendis relaunch is likely the reason Supergirl has a hiatus in Issue 20.

    However, although Supergirl in Orlando run seems to have "good sales", this was because it usually has Artgem variant cover (which usually increase the sales).

    Supergirl #11: 21,319

    Supergirl #12 (variant Artgerm cover): 27,104

    So, DC will likely change the writer and tone for Supergirl even without Bendis.

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