Post-March 2021 DC Titles

[Vordan]

Lets see what happens!!! If offer is refused WB intends to keep publishing comics

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...lots-of-money/

Bet it’s another Shazadam case where Rich takes something out of context and blows it up for clicks.

[Goldrake]

Bet it’s another Shazadam case where Rich takes something out of context and blows it up for clicks.

well that AT&T is considering selling the publishing rights is no secret and some truth might be here.

[BatmanJones]

A bunch of fanboys running the company would be a sure way to see it crash in record time...

Ha! If any of them are here prepare to see Batman and all related titles eliminated from the line.

[Robanker]

Lets see what happens!!! If offer is refused WB intends to keep publishing comics

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...lots-of-money/

I refuse to believe AT&T is going to throw away guaranteed money makers like Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman because they're in debt. They'll probably just fire more people.

Moreover, the kind of fans who would do this are the absolute worst people to run the company. They're the ones who whine that things aren't being catered to them which is how we got to 30k average runs to begin with. Trying to sell to a dwindling market that demands you excite them but hates anything new with the IP. Hell, most fans can't get over their worship of their favorite characters which is why something as damaging to the entire line as Batgod continues to sell and undermine every other IP.

I actually very much like Batman, but Batgod has limited my ability to enjoy any story with Bruce Wayne in over a decade. But most guys? They love seeing Bruce take on the entire Justice League and win because they think he's that smart instead of accepting that every character had to essentially return to pre-origin levels of competence to lose to him. Whoops!

This is also the kind of **** that lets Zombie Superman just one-punch Wonder Woman. That's already happening now, but do you really think it'll be better when it's fanboys in charge? It'll be the same (perhaps in a different flavor, but roughly the same) or worse.

Then only upside I can see is them buying into the company and injecting money to hire back the roles that were cut, with new and old blood alike. To restore the gutted infrastructure and allow the books to get made with more attention to detail and without cutting all these newer editors to the bone. To give all the creative people the support they need to really kill it at their jobs. If they are buying into the company, then it could be a good thing, but if they're trying to rip DC from AT&T this will either lead in nothing, the IP being split up piecemeal or just a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

[Goldrake]

I refuse to believe AT&T is going to throw away guaranteed money makers like Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman because they're in debt. They'll probably just fire more people.

Moreover, the kind of fans who would do this are the absolute worst people to run the company. They're the ones who whine that things aren't being catered to them which is how we got to 30k average runs to begin with. Trying to sell to a dwindling market that demands you excite them but hates anything new with the IP.

WB would keep all IP.
That AT&T is considering selling publishing can be true, various sources have mentioned it. Some claim WB themselves approached other companies. So some truth might be behind it. If it translates into reality we will see.

As for these fans running DC it might be as you say, but it would be VERY foolish, this is not about stuff for them, but making the investment they made worth it. They are not forking out some hundred dollars for some comics but millions. Had I been one of them, the first thing I would want is a return to my investment and not that Supemans pants have to be on the outside or inside.

Then only upside I can see is them buying into the company and injecting money to hire back the roles that were cut, with new and old blood alike. To restore the gutted infrastructure and allow the books to get made with more attention to detail and without cutting all these newer editors to the bone. To give all the creative people the support they need to really kill it at their jobs. If they are buying into the company, then it could be a good thing, but if they're trying to rip DC from AT&T this will either lead in nothing, the IP being split up piecemeal or just a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

It could be a blessing or a disaster.
But honestly as DC is at the moment it can only lose more readers, less staff less books, less books less fans. Just batfans and some others.
It has been reduced to this state because of the debts of AT&T, not seeing that debt getting lower or settled in any near future, so, DC will remain in this state for many years.

[Bruce Wayne]

what does the last 20 years have to do with AT&T debt?
Comics are in decline, marvel is in better shape than dc but not that much, numbers are falling at marvel too.

I don't think the personnel losses would have been as bad if DC had a stronger position in the direct market, was actually making money for WB/AT&T and didn't appear a dysfunctional mess. Ultimately the firings are a cost cutting measures due to the publishing unit not making the kind of money that AT&T wants, but DC at the time was also looking like it was a mess under the previous publishers. For example: the #MeToo stuff with Eddie Berganza, the negative and bad publicity from stuff like batdick and Second Coming and all the bts personnel problems/firings that occurred apparently over disagreements about 5G that got reported to HR. The firings would have been less a problem if DC was better run instead of a feudal playground where everybody was staking turf and where lower management was too busy being petty and sabotaging characters. Instead AT&T nuked everything from orbit because the publishing unit wasn't pulling its weight and was too busy with its internal squabbles.

[Robanker]

WB would keep all IP.
That AT&T is considering selling publishing can be true, various sources have mentioned it. Some claim WB themselves approached other companies. So some truth might be behind it. If it translates into reality we will see.

As for these fans running DC it might be as you say, but it would be VERY foolish, this is not about stuff for them, but making the investment they made worth it. They are not forking out some hundred dollars for some comics but millions. Had I been one of them, the first thing I would want is a return to my investment and not that Supemans pants have to be on the outside or inside.

FOUND THE FAKE FAN! GET 'IM, BOYS. RIP OPEN HIS BAGGED COPIES OF AQUAMAN AND LET THEM SIT IN THE SUN WHILE HE WATCHES! CREASE THE SPIIIIIIIIIINE!


Sure, but the problem is I don't see someone buying the publishing rights from AT&T where they essentially gain nothing but the ability to make comics for a company that's broke. What's the endgame there? Do they get big film rights? I doubt AT&T will sign those away. I just don't see a world where AT&T lets another company essentially get any of the big slices of the pie nor one where people with that kind of money have so little business acumen that they sign a deal that essentially lets them make small, tidy profits.

I have no business degree but it sounds really bad for at least one party no matter how I slice it unless there's some shady fine print, which perhaps there is.

[Bruce Wayne]

Sure, but the problem is I don't see someone buying the publishing rights from AT&T where they essentially gain nothing but the ability to make comics for a company that's broke.

I think it's basically a similar model to how IDW/Dark Horse were publishing comics for various movie/tv properties like Star Wars, Buffy, Transformers, Aliens etc. The 3rd party pays some sort of licensing fee to AT&T/WB and pockets the slim profits from publishing the monthlies, digitals and collected trades. The result is probably they are going to be motivated to cut the expenses for production so like with Dark Horse/IDW, you are going to see more c or d-list writing or artistic talent on these books. I think the best example of this type of race to the bottom is something like Dynamite where the writing/artistic talent is just not there and they are just churning out crap.

[Goldrake]

FOUND THE FAKE FAN! GET 'IM, BOYS. RIP OPEN HIS BAGGED COPIES OF AQUAMAN AND LET THEM SIT IN THE SUN WHILE HE WATCHES! CREASE THE SPIIIIIIIIIINE!


Sure, but the problem is I don't see someone buying the publishing rights from AT&T where they essentially gain nothing but the ability to make comics for a company that's broke. What's the endgame there? Do they get big film rights? I doubt AT&T will sign those away. I just don't see a world where AT&T lets another company essentially get any of the big slices of the pie nor one where people with that kind of money have so little business acumen that they sign a deal that essentially lets them make small, tidy profits.

I have no business degree but it sounds really bad for at least one party no matter how I slice it unless there's some shady fine print, which perhaps there is.

That AT&T approached other companies is no secret. Seems even Marvel showed interest.
Just as sources revealed that layoffs would occur at DC, I, like many others dismissed those rumors at the time. So I won't say it can't happen.

What is their intention I have no idea, Such deal will certainly not take place in a fortnight if it happens.
If it happens it will be very complicated deal for sure, the devil would be in the detail.

Other options is Downsizing staff at DC even more, would lead to less books, less sales.

[Goldrake]

I don't think the personnel losses would have been as bad if DC had a stronger position in the direct market, was actually making money for WB/AT&T and didn't appear a dysfunctional mess. Ultimately the firings are a cost cutting measures due to the publishing unit not making the kind of money that AT&T wants, but DC at the time was also looking like it was a mess under the previous publishers. For example: the #MeToo stuff with Eddie Berganza, the negative and bad publicity from stuff like batdick and Second Coming and all the bts personnel problems/firings that occurred apparently over disagreements about 5G that got reported to HR. The firings would have been less a problem if DC was better run instead of a feudal playground where everybody was staking turf and where lower management was too busy being petty and sabotaging characters. Instead AT&T nuked everything from orbit because the publishing unit wasn't pulling its weight and was too busy with its internal squabbles.

And how do you believe this stronger presence on direct market could have been achieved?

[Bruce Wayne]

By not making so many mistakes and having better managed and edited books. None of the creator music chairs or cronyism we saw first hand with New 52 (where Marvel people like Rob Liefeld/Anne Nocient were given three books to write). Or half-assed events like Convergence that destroyed DC's sales. Plan out the events and give creators a greater voice instead of making everything editorial driven. Do what Marvel did and hire more indy talent like Brubaker/Mark Millar/Ellis while they were at the top of their game. Don't alienate people like what they did to Rucka and Waid or purge capable people like Raspler or Wacker because they don't agree with your opinions. Don't buy Wildstorm and then start purging the staff because it offended the sensibilities of the then publisher. And don't sabotage characters and books just because they aren't the ones that your grew up with. DC's many mistakes were ultimately self-inflicted and due to anemic or bad management. This could have been all avoided.

[Goldrake]

By not making so many mistakes and having better managed and edited books. None of the creator music chairs or cronyism we saw first hand with New 52 (where Marvel people like Rob Liefeld/Anne Nocient were given three books to write). Or half-assed events like Convergence that destroyed DC's sales. Plan out the events and give creators a greater voice instead of making everything editorial drive. Do what Marvel did and hire more indy talent like Brubaker/Mark Millar/Ellis while they were at the top of their game. Don't alienate people like what they did to Rucka and Waid. Don't buy Wildstorm and then start purging the staff because it offended the sensibilities of the then publisher. And don't sabotage characters and books just because they aren't the ones that your grew up with. DC's many mistakes were ultimately self-inflicted and due to anemic or bad management. This could have been all avoided.

I don't think its all about that, facts are readership is declining for other reasons. Marvel isn't in much better shape. It has Disney that props it up.
Sales would have gone down just the same even if Didio was fired 5/8 years ago. Younger generations are more interested in reading manga than superhero stuff not because of Didio. Comics in general have been in decline for decades now.
Big problem at DC is that they seem to lack what works with characters. At times when its so obvious that direction XYZ is not gonna work, they are petty enough to take that path.
Biggest problem is that they have Batman as their comfort zone for all these years, but never took notice or supported other characters throughout these same years. Result, they depend on Batman to stay afloat. They never even try to market other characters. Most of all, they seem to lack the enthusiasm even to try something with characters that aren't bat related. Their approach is batman will solve our problems.

[Bruce Wayne]

Overleveraging of Bat is a recent thing due to sheer desperation by the current management. But Superman and Wonder Woman not doing well is absolutely because of editorial mismanagement. For Superman it was a revolving door of creators under the editor Matt Idelson where DC's best creators like Busiek/Johns/Rucka/Morrison were constantly being shuffled off for some new favorite writer of management's. I think it's pretty telling that there was only a small trickle of good Superman stories during the 2000s and New 52 eras. The same for WW. After Rucka got fired, the character was sabotaged by Countdown/Amazons Attack. And then when they bring in Simone to fix things, she was sabotaged and undermined by editorial. This pattern would continue with editorial either putting in unqualified candidates (JMS/Finch) or putting in people to piss off the readers (Azzarello). It's a far cry from the previous Rucka-Jimenez eras where the fandom was far les hostile. Arguably the same for GL where DC mismanaged the gains from the Johns era and gave it to someone unqualified like Venditti and pissed away the entire subline of Lantern books.

Batman was fortunate enough to not have this sort of long-term mismanagement. And they had strong creators like Morrison/Snyder having long runs on the character to build up the Batman corner. And editorial under Mike Marts knew how to build crossovers around the tentpole books. And Mark Doyle his successor built on the gains Marts made.

[Lee Stone]

Maybe if there weren't a zillion comics being printed each month, they'd have more readers per comic.
Especially if certain characters were limited to no more than two solo titles.

But the problem here is that someone is going to have to yield shelf space to do that.
And nobody wants to do that.

[Goldrake]

Overleveraging of Bat is a recent thing due to sheer desperation by the current management. But Superman and Wonder Woman not doing well is absolutely because of editorial mismanagement. For Superman it was a revolving door of creators under the editor Matt Idelson where DC's best creators like Busiek/Johns/Rucka/Morrison were constantly being shuffled off for some new favorite writer of management's. I think it's pretty telling that there was only a small trickle of good Superman stories during the 2000s and New 52 eras. The same for WW. After Rucka got fired, the character was sabotaged by Countdown/Amazons Attack. And then when they bring in Simone to fix things, she was sabotaged and undermined by editorial. This pattern would continue with editorial either putting in unqualified candidates (JMS/Finch) or putting in people to piss off the readers (Azzarello). It's a far cry from the previous Rucka-Jimenez eras where the fandom was far les hostile. Arguably the same for GL where DC mismanaged the gains from the Johns era and gave it to someone unqualified like Venditti and pissed away the entire subline of Lantern books.

Batman was fortunate enough to not have this sort of long-term mismanagement. And had strong creators like Morrison/Snyder having long runs on the character to build up the Batman corner. And editorial under Mike Marts knew how to build crossovers using the main book as a tentpole.

That Didio was awful I have no doubts. He was the one that destroyed all the goodwill Rebirth had managed to bring back. He seem jealous that it was working. The he mismanaged the gains certain runs obtained thats true. You can include the removal of Johns from Aquaman, after he had made it a success, instead of cementing that success for character that always proved problematic till then.

TBH Overleveraging on Batman has been going for sometime not just this management.