Tim Burton and Batman 3

[CTTT]

It's a real crime that we didn't get to see another Tim Burton Batman movie. I think if that had happened, we might not have had Batman put on ice for 8 years. But it's interesting to me that parents freaked out about Batman Returns with Penguin coming up out of the water with blue or black looking goop dripping out of his nostrils and mouth. Really? Batman 1989 had Joker waltzing in, shooting Jack Palance's character multiple times, and gleefully I might add. Then in another scene, he happily incinerates a mobster and we get to see the burned corpse as well. They should have looked at the Death in the Family storyline where Jason gets brutally beaten with a crowbar and then after the warehouse explosion, Bruce is carrying his bloodied and beaten body out of the ashes. That's even more gruesome than black goop. So, what we got instead because of the parents were bat nipples, butt shots and high camp. Go figure. Anyway, an unfortunate misfire on WB's part letting Burton go.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It's a real crime that we didn't get to see another Tim Burton Batman movie.

On the contrary, I think Burton did all that he wished to do with the character and that world in BATMAN 1989 and BATMAN RETURNS, especially. He moved on from that and did films like Mars Attacks and Ed Wood, and continued from there with stuff like Big Fish and so on. I think he got out when he wished to.

I think if that had happened, we might not have had Batman put on ice for 8 years.

Batman Forever, which came after Batman Returns, was a big commercial success and in fact, more profitable than Returns I think.

Sure Batman and Robin did cause a burnout but on the outset that wasn't apparent and obvious i.e. nobody expected Batman and Robin to be a disaster going in.

And likewise...I think the 8 year gap between that and Chris Nolan was good, actually. Sometimes you need to take a break to prevent overexposure. Allow things to stay quiet, gather steam wait for a new generation, new voice, and new style to come in.

I mean Nolan's first film was The Following which came out in 1998 (one year after Batman and Robin), his first breakthrough movie Memento came out in 2000. He made Batman Begins in 2005. Without that gap of 8 years, Chris Nolan wouldn't have gotten a chance to direct Batman, because the franchise would have chugged on a movie after another, still stuck in the style of the late-80s and early-90s for the most part rather than have a director with a new style with a 21stC. sensibility come in and take charge.

Anyway, an unfortunate misfire on WB's part letting Burton go.

It was a mutual thing. Tim Burton himself wasn't too keen on coming back to do Batman Returns, but agreed after they gave him even more creative control, and as he pointed out his biggest problem with Batman was that he related far too much to the villains. His big interest was that Batman originated and was inspired by a German Expressionist aesthetic originally and he liked to tap into that and express a fascination for grotesque, weird, and marginalized characters. He took that and ran with in Batman Returns where Catwoman had more screentime than Batman did, and essentially stole the movie from under his feet. After that, and especially the controversy surrounding that, he figured he had worn out his welcome and he stepped back.

That was the smartest thing any film-maker did on these movies and I wished Sam Raimi followed suit.

[batnbreakfast]

Batman Returns is one of my go to Christmas movies and I've rewatched it almost every year since it came out. Can't wrap my head around why people still like Michelle's Catwoman. Not my thing but the look is iconic, yeah. She goes from nerd through being magically resurrected to martial arts master with bad, ambigous one liners. That's not kid friendly nor is it adult. Feels like a first draft screenplay.

[CTTT]

Batman Returns is one of my go to Christmas movies and I've rewatched it almost every year since it came out. Can't wrap my head around why people still like Michelle's Catwoman. Not my thing but the look is iconic, yeah. She goes from nerd through being magically resurrected to martial arts master with bad, ambigous one liners. That's not kid friendly nor is it adult. Feels like a first draft screenplay.

Yeah the whole being bitten by cats thing and being resurrected was kind of weird, then also getting catlike behavior after that. Danny Devito seemed to be having a ball playing Penguin though.

[Osiris-Rex]

An even bigger crime was that Tim Burton didn't do the Catwoman movie and we ended up with that Halle Berry disaster.

[batnbreakfast]

An even bigger crime was that Tim Burton didn't do the Catwoman movie and we ended up with that Halle Berry disaster.

Would he have directed from the same script?

[Mark Trail]

It's a real crime that we didn't get to see another Tim Burton Batman movie. I think if that had happened, we might not have had Batman put on ice for 8 years. But it's interesting to me that parents freaked out about Batman Returns with Penguin coming up out of the water with blue or black looking goop dripping out of his nostrils and mouth. Really? Batman 1989 had Joker waltzing in, shooting Jack Palance's character multiple times, and gleefully I might add. Then in another scene, he happily incinerates a mobster and we get to see the burned corpse as well. They should have looked at the Death in the Family storyline where Jason gets brutally beaten with a crowbar and then after the warehouse explosion, Bruce is carrying his bloodied and beaten body out of the ashes. That's even more gruesome than black goop. So, what we got instead because of the parents were bat nipples, butt shots and high camp. Go figure. Anyway, an unfortunate misfire on WB's part letting Burton go.

Burton's two Batman movies got increasingly campy with each one (half the plot of BR was lifted from an old episode of the TV series to name just one example). While we might not have gotten nipples on the batsuit, I think you're overly optimistic that Burton wouldn't have kept moving a direction not that dissimilar from this second one, especially if Carrey came aboard as the Riddler in either event.

[Joker]

It's a real crime that we didn't get to see another Tim Burton Batman movie. I think if that had happened, we might not have had Batman put on ice for 8 years. But it's interesting to me that parents freaked out about Batman Returns with Penguin coming up out of the water with blue or black looking goop dripping out of his nostrils and mouth. Really? Batman 1989 had Joker waltzing in, shooting Jack Palance's character multiple times, and gleefully I might add. Then in another scene, he happily incinerates a mobster and we get to see the burned corpse as well. They should have looked at the Death in the Family storyline where Jason gets brutally beaten with a crowbar and then after the warehouse explosion, Bruce is carrying his bloodied and beaten body out of the ashes. That's even more gruesome than black goop. So, what we got instead because of the parents were bat nipples, butt shots and high camp. Go figure. Anyway, an unfortunate misfire on WB's part letting Burton go.

Batman 89 had almost no sexual overtones, whereas Batman Returns was dripping with it. And leather. It was also just a creepier movie, even if campier, as well.

I love it, personally. It is not perfect, but I adore it none the less. That said, while the franchise went in bad directions after Returns, I don't know that a 3rd Burton movie was really the answer either.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Burton's two Batman movies got increasingly campy

What do you mean by camp? I have to ask.

The fact is that in the context of the original releases, Batman'89 and Batman Returns were highly noted for its great violence and darkness. Batman Returns so much so that is sparked a backlash among parents and others for being too grim and dark, and not for children despite being PG-13. A lot of people felt it should be R.

Burton's Batman movies was the darkest, most violent, adaptation of Batman or in fact any superhero movie until that point. Until then superheroes meant Adam West or they meant Christopher Reeve.

This idea of Burton's movies being campy, it's absolutely not the opinion of anyone at the time of the movies' release.

The most radical thing was the fact it just showed Batman, by himself, without Robin which was so ubiquitous and defining that even Miller's TDKR had a Robin, as did Nolan's final Batman movie. And without Robin, less camp overall.

(half the plot of BR was lifted from an old episode of the TV series to name just one example)

So? Superman borrowed the ability to fly from the Fleischer cartoons. What does that have to do with anything?

While we might not have gotten nipples on the batsuit, I think you're overly optimistic that Burton wouldn't have kept moving a direction not that dissimilar from this second one, especially if Carrey came aboard as the Riddler in either event.

Whatever problems Batman Forever has, I don't think Jim Carrey's Riddler is the main one.

In any case, Tim Burton was reluctant about doing a sequel and only agreed when he got even more creative control. The backlash to Batman Returns over its violence and so on, meant that any sequel would happen with directors having less of a say so Burton wouldn't have said yes to making a third movie in any circumstances. He did all he could do or wanted to do with the movies he made, and decided to duck out with honor and dignity and move on.

Batman 89 had almost no sexual overtones, whereas Batman Returns was dripping with it. And leather. It was also just a creepier movie, even if campier, as well.

I really don't think people understand what camp means. They're just dropping the word.

Dealing with sexuality doesn't make things campy. And yeah, Batman Returns deals with sex, because again it has Catwoman, specifically Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman. It would be ridiculous if it weren't sexy.

[Joker]

Depends who you ask. For some “camp” deals specifically in homosexuality.

But I’m just referring to “cheesy” elements. The giant rubber duck, etc. things that, while the movie is very dark in style, wouldn’t be out of place in an episode of Adam West Batman.

[Kirby101]

Just watched Batman 89 on Showtime. It did not age well. The overactive by Nicholson gets tedious and that finale at the cathedral is underwhelming.

Burton went on to make much better films.

[AnakinFlair]

From what I recall, Burton was ready and willing to do a third Batman movie, but due to the reactions to Batman Returns, Warner Bros decided to go in a different direction. Burton was still a producer on Batman Forever, I think.

As for Batman and Robin, I won't absolve Schumacher completely for it. But it's been documented that the studio wanted a movie that would sell toys, and imposed their will a lot on the production.

[AnakinFlair]

Just watched Batman 89 on Showtime. It did not age well. The overactive by Nicholson gets tedious and that finale at the cathedral is underwhelming.

Burton went on to make much better films.

I actually feel that way about Batman Forever. As a kid, I loved Jim Carrey in every scene. As an adult, I couldn't make it through his very first scene.

[Midvillian1322]

Just watched Batman 89 on Showtime. It did not age well. The overactive by Nicholson gets tedious and that finale at the cathedral is underwhelming.

Burton went on to make much better films.

Watched it last year and I feel feel same way. It still has a fond place in my heart. Came out the year I was born and Batman 89 was the first Superhero movie I saw(Years later though obviously). But it hasn't aged well but I can say that about alot of older Superhero films.

As far as Batman Forever. Haven't rewatch it in a long while but I loved it as a kid. Val Kilmer was my favorite Batman as a child. He was the first batman I saw in theaters. Same as Peirce Brosnan being my James Bond.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

From what I remember Warners wasn't happy that the merch didn't sell as well for Batman Returns as well as complaints the film was too dark. So they were not only looking for a bigger box office take , they wanted the toys etc to move more.