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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Default (SPOILER) Cheetah in WW84, could she return??

    Was it geoff? Was it Patty? Why was Cheetah thrown under the bus like that in her debut film? She is Diana's most well known foe. She already has to deal with bad writing in the comics. And now this carried into the silver screen. Who was the one that decided it was a good look for WW, to have her biggest name villain treated as almost total fodder? All while a guy that isn't even a WW foe got the center of the stage. Could we hope for Cheetah to redeem herself. Or is this character doomed to be treated like this forever? Please Gods help us. Whi is it so hard these days to portray WW and her vilains as powerhouses?

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Was it geoff? Was it Patty? Why was Cheetah thrown under the bus like that in her debut film? She is Diana's most well known foe. She already has to deal with bad writing in the comics. And now this carried into the silver screen. Who was the one that decided it was a good look for WW, to have her biggest name villain treated as almost total fodder? All while a guy that isn't even a WW foe got the center of the stage. Could we hope for Cheetah to redeem herself. Or is this character doomed to be treated like this forever? Please Gods help us. Whi is it so hard these days to portray WW and her vilains as powerhouses?
    I think it was Patty, but this will be more forgivable if this was intended to be her origin movie instead of a one and done. Patty's been hinting that Barbara's story isn't over.

    https://www.republicworld.com/entert...y-jenkins.html

    I'd be a lot more pissed if her being Max's glorified bodyguard was intended to be the beginning and end of her story, but it doesn't seem the case. If the trilogy is planned to have her play a part in the third chapter and part 2 was just the setup, I will be more forgiving. Because I loved Wiig's performance for what she was given and she has the potential to do more. So I want Patty's broad story to play out, but maybe some other input on the action scenes.

  3. #3
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    I really feel like you are over reacting. You had certain expectations for what she should be like, doesn't mean she was treated badly. Max Lord was the central villain for two reasons, first because thes tory Patty had in mind made more sense with him as the enemy that precipitates the conflict, second, because Barbara was treated at first like an ally and later on as a sympathetic opponent. She was more and more acitng out of her own self interest and became the person that directly parallaled Diana's journey. Barbara, even as a villain, had more scenes as an opponent to Diana than Max did, so she was the most direct embodiment of what Diana was pleading against.

  4. #4
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think it was Patty, but this will be more forgivable if this was intended to be her origin movie instead of a one and done. Patty's been hinting that Barbara's story isn't over.

    https://www.republicworld.com/entert...y-jenkins.html

    I'd be a lot more pissed if her being Max's glorified bodyguard was intended to be the beginning and end of her story, but it doesn't seem the case. If the trilogy is planned to have her play a part in the third chapter and part 2 was just the setup, I will be more forgiving. Because I loved Wiig's performance for what she was given and she has the potential to do more. So I want Patty's broad story to play out, but maybe some other input on the action scenes.
    She was Max's bodyguard in the sense that he was giving her the thing she desired and in order to keep what she desired she had to protect him. But she wasn't a servant to him.

  5. #5
    Fantastic Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I really feel like you are over reacting. You had certain expectations for what she should be like, doesn't mean she was treated badly. Max Lord was the central villain for two reasons, first because thes tory Patty had in mind made more sense with him as the enemy that precipitates the conflict, second, because Barbara was treated at first like an ally and later on as a sympathetic opponent. She was more and more acitng out of her own self interest and became the person that directly parallaled Diana's journey. Barbara, even as a villain, had more scenes as an opponent to Diana than Max did, so she was the most direct embodiment of what Diana was pleading against.
    Diana even while holding back was able to contain her. And just some electricity and water was enough to take Cheetah out. So yes, pretty fooder treatment.

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    She was Max's bodyguard in the sense that he was giving her the thing she desired and in order to keep what she desired she had to protect him. But she wasn't a servant to him.
    She's not subservient to him, but she gets her power from him and doesn't have a plot of her own.

    Which again, will be fine for this movie as long as she's a recurring foe going forward, which has a distinct possibility now.

  7. #7
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Diana even while holding back was able to contain her. And just some electricity and water was enough to take Cheetah out. So yes, pretty fooder treatment.
    Thank god we didn't have one of those drawn out fight scenes. DCEU and MCU have been plagued by this.

  8. #8
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    She's not subservient to him, but she gets her power from him and doesn't have a plot of her own.

    Which again, will be fine for this movie as long as she's a recurring foe going forward, which has a distinct possibility now.
    Doesn't have a plot of her own? That's one of the best things about the film. The film is about one thing and it keeps the focus of the story fully on that theme. She is still a character with complete agency and she is developed as much as the rest of the character (although I think no character was well written in the first act)
    Last edited by Alpha; 12-28-2020 at 07:39 PM.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Thor2014's Avatar
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    Like it or not us WW fans are stuck with Max in the WW villain gallery. He was actually likeable in WW84, more akin to his original portrayal in JLI.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Thank god we didn't have one of those drawn out fight scenes. DCEU and MCU have been plagued by this.
    WW still hasn't had a proper battle moment in dcu that shows her power in a big way. And character that is ww's most known foe, supposed to be powerful enough to face ww went down because of some electrocution. This is beyond tragic.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor2014 View Post
    Like it or not us WW fans are stuck with Max in the WW villain gallery. He was actually likeable in WW84, more akin to his original portrayal in JLI.
    Now if only someone could crack the code and actually make comic Max an interesting character rather than having him coast like a middle-aged dad on something big he did 15 years ago.

  12. #12
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Thank god we didn't have one of those drawn out fight scenes. DCEU and MCU have been plagued by this.
    I REALLY hope your being sarcastic with this statement.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  13. #13
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    WW still hasn't had a proper battle moment in dcu that shows her power in a big way. And character that is ww's most known foe, supposed to be powerful enough to face ww went down because of some electrocution. This is beyond tragic.
    So did Juggernaut

  14. #14
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I REALLY hope your being sarcastic with this statement.
    I'm not. I keep getting bored with the fight scenes in third acts of most of these films. Doctor Strange had a great third act despite being really weak the rest of the film. Civil War and Infinity War were great too. I enjoyed the visuals of Aquaman but it was still much longer than it should have been.

    But the big issue is never how long the action is, it's that there has to exist some interesting plot progression and character development alongside it. It's boring if its just minutes and minutes of the characters creating obstacles for each other and then one of them dies or gets seriously hurt, and then they find more obstacles and they fail, but they get back up again, and then something weird changes the dynamics but they go back to fighting or shooting, or racing, or whatever. There is no sucession of reveals, or character turns, or changing of the status quo in any way. Infinity War for example had a great third act (and first act, and second act) because it kept the story moving and the character arcs moving and we were always learning something new or seeing the status quo change and the characters change. Wakanda was the weakest part precisely because after a certain point it was fighting with no other purpose.

    WW84 was much cleaner. She had a goal, she went after it, there was one clear objective and she tried to reason with Cheetah in stages, she realized there was no point and allowed the fight to end. Then she moved on from the physical embodiment of her vulnerabilities (Cheetah) to the emotional cause of pain for her which was Max Lord. She found the climactic threat and tried to reach him three times using different means, and then jumped to the solution. And the film paced the scene so that it wasn't a sudden change on the part of Diana after numerous attempts at trying the same thing.

    Compare this to Man of Steel, or Batman v Superman, or Justice League, or Suicide Squad, or Shazam, or Birds of Prey (where even after they fight the main bad guys, they still have a chase scene and one final confrontation). They just keep going and going for no reason. Spider-man Homecoming was the same thing. Endgame was probably the biggest offender. The whole third act was completely useless to the film other than finding a reason to kill off Tony Stark. I mean they all had already faced their biggest regrets and fixed the world, but then Thanos appears out of nowhere simply because he intercepted the head radio of Nebula in one scene and we proceed to every character fighting an army and literally trying to stop Thanos from changing the ending of the film. The story had already ended and Thanos was only there to change that ending. And the major accomplishment was stopping Thanos from changing the ending.
    Last edited by Alpha; 12-28-2020 at 08:45 PM.

  15. #15
    Fantastic Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    So did Juggernaut
    And? If you think it is ok to treat WW's iconic villain as such a weaklink. Then i do not what to say. If the fight had to happen. Then it should have been done in a bigger way that shows both as powerful individuals.

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