gwen stacy death diminished by spider Gwen and gwenpool?

[Riv86672]

I never liked the idea of these characters. No huge reason I just think they’re meh, especially Geenpool, who falls under the umbrella of milking the Deadpool cow till its udders fall off.

[Spider-Tiger]

On that same token, if you ask the average non-comic fan now, they probably think of Gwen Stacy as Spider-Gwen first rather than the girlfriend who got thrown off the bridge so I can see how people come to the conclusion that her presence "undermines" Gwen's death. Just the same I don't really care about the same story beats getting hammer in over and over again.

Before Spider-Gwen, the average non-comic fan would've probably answered "who?" before "the girlfriend who got thrown off the bridge." That type of thing was comic book trivia that only a reading audience would know.

If anything, Spider-Gwen has elevated the original Gwen's stock by association. The average Spider-Gwen fan is probably going to have some awareness of the original Gwen Stacy. And there was that recent 616 Gwen mini that probably attracted an audience that didn't exist a decade ago.

What Spider-Gwen has really altered is how Gwen Stacy is portrayed in other media. But prior to Spider-Gwen, Gwen Stacy was lucky if she had a cameo appearance. The significant role that she played in Spectacular and the Amazing films were exceptions. So instead of adaptations of the love interest Gwen Stacy appearing rarely, we get a version of Gwen that essentially functions as an entirely new character. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[9th.]

Ummm, that's incorrect. Your statement is objectively false. Spider-Gwen is still a version of 616 Gwen Stacy; just as Superboy Prime is a version of Rebirth Superman and Flash Point Thomas Wayne is a version of Rebirth Thomas Wayne. These characters share the same name, same heritage, the same history up to a point of divergence. The connection shared goes far beyond that of a mere moniker; Miles & Peter both being Spider-Man is a case of a shared moniker, not this.

Edit - Not that I think Spider-Gwen being around diminished 616 Gwen's death in any way but the characters are clearly versions of the same character.

They're still completely different characters though. Let's use the example you used Thomas Wayne Earth 2 and Flashpoint Thomas Wayne is not the same as Bruce's dad in his continuity. It's just a face and a name. Having Gwenpool and Ghost Spider around does not diminish the Death of Gwen Stacy's impact. If it did, it would've happened already.

[federicodettofred]

But the point is she is not that Gwen.

Still makes no sense at all to me. There was Gwen Stacy. Period. Reading of ANOTHER character called Gwen Stacy who looks like Gwen Stacy but has spider powers is absolutely pointless to me. LEAVE. HER. DEAD. Just as George Stacy, Uncle Ben and other characters who are dead. Milking a character and beating a dead horse is boring and irritating to me. Also, if you know the name "Gwen Stacy" because of Spider-Gwen I'm afraid you're not a Spider-Man fan at all.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Still makes no sense at all to me.

Comic books, my dude. It will break your heart.

There was Gwen Stacy. Period. Reading of ANOTHER character called Gwen Stacy who looks like Gwen Stacy but has spider powers is absolutely pointless to me.

Right now in Marvel there's Reed Richards or Mr. Fantastic. There's The Maker who is Ultimate Reed Richards. Mr. Fantastic is a good guy, the Maker is evil.

So how is this different?

Also, if you know the name "Gwen Stacy" because of Spider-Gwen I'm afraid you're not a Spider-Man fan at all.

That's gatekeeping pure and simple.

It has no place here and you should take these words back. Anyone who knows Spider-Man from a toy/sticker/beanie their parents got for them when they were kids is a Spider-Man fan, period. End of discussion. For a ton of people, the PS4 game is their introduction to Spider-Man, no Gwen Stacy there, not even a reference. Are those people not Spider-Man fans?

Historically the majority of Spider-Man fans had no idea of who Gwen Stacy was.
-- In the 1970s-early 2000 you had a newspaper strip of Spider-Man. That newspaper comic had a far bigger readership than the regular monthly ongoing did. Gwen didn't show up once or get referred to at all in that strip.
-- Gwen Stacy didn't show up in any Spider-Man cartoon from 1967 all the way to a cameo in the Fox cartoon of the '90s. She didn't show up in any game until the Garfield movie tie-ins (which suck).

Before Spider-Gwen, the average non-comic fan would've probably answered "who?" before "the girlfriend who got thrown off the bridge." That type of thing was comic book trivia that only a reading audience would know.

Gwen Stacy's revival happened gradually. The big thing that made people remember was Marvels by Ross/Busiek which elevated her as the "girl who ended the Silver Age" (which I am not sure is actually true since the concept of Silver Age was a recent coinage). Then among a wider readership it was Spider-Man Blue. Then more notoriously Sins' Past. But these were known only among comics readers. It was Emma Stone that made some civilians hear of Gwen. And Emma Stone's Gwen started the process of Gwen being more than a love interest.

[Frontier]

Just for the record, Gwenpoole may have been part of a bunch of Gwen variants but the actual character has nothing to do with Gwen Stacy.

[Celgress]

It's a classical way to have your cake and eat it too. They keep her dead, but at the same time can use her "by proxy".

Exactly, that's the way it is.

[Celgress]

Spider Gwen is totally different than the original one, besides having the same name and the same father I don’t see what they have in common.

It doesn't matter if you don't see it because it's still true. This isn't opinion, friend, it's fact: Spider-Gwen is an alternate version of 616 Gwen Stacy.

[Celgress]

They're still completely different characters though. Let's use the example you used Thomas Wayne Earth 2 and Flashpoint Thomas Wayne is not the same as Bruce's dad in his continuity. It's just a face and a name. Having Gwenpool and Ghost Spider around does not diminish the Death of Gwen Stacy's impact. If it did, it would've happened already.

No, it isn't just a name. Peter and Miles sharing the Spider-Man identity is "just a name", not this. A rose by any other name and all that. Basically, what it means is that what matters is what something is, not what it is called. They are the same character only with differences caused by an alternate history. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

[WebLurker]

Never really liked Gwen Stacy, but do like Spider-Gwen, so take that for what it is.

[AtheistInRed]

You talk as though her death meant anything to begin with.

Haha! Exactly.

[Ikari]

They aren’t the original Gwen Stacy nor are they pretending to be. So no, their existence doesn’t diminish Gwen’s death.

All the clones and retcons soured people on Gwen Stacy LONG before alternate timeline Gwens and stuff. So yeah, no.

[Mister Mets]

I don't think it diminishes her. If anything, it emphasizes the loss.

[Triniking1234]

I don't have a problem with Gwenpool. Marvel established she's just some crazy blonde chick.

But with Spider-Gwen it still feels like they're pushing the "It's Peter's former GF with his powers" instead of trying more to deviate her from the 616 Gwen and become someone like Ben or Kaine.

[Celgress]

I don't have a problem with Gwenpool. Marvel established she's just some crazy blonde chick.

But with Spider-Gwen it still feels like they're pushing the "It's Peter's former GF with his powers" instead of trying more to deviate her from the 616 Gwen and become someone like Ben or Kaine.

Yeah, there has been a detectable shift towards that in the past two or so years. I feel doing this takes away from 65 Gwen being her own unique variant in her own unique world.