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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think we need access to that, for one thing.

    I would say collectively, like anything, it ebbs and flows depending on the era.

    To some, less is more. I'm not saying the story probably couldn't have been expanded (especially if how much was packed into each issue) but I feel like it helped the title's "evergreen" status to be as it is instead of a series of era-specific mini's. But that's just my take.

    I can't say it doesn't go both ways, but that's how continuity works. I'd still say it's important.

    Not really, though? I don't think OMD had anything to do with that line. I mean, Dan Slott of all people set up the timeframe for Peter being in 28-ish in Learning to Crawl.

    Of course it could be just that I, personally, reserve "young _____" more for people in their early 20's, but it's all relative.

    I see.

    I...don't quite see the connection?
    I do not think it is a case of Less Is More it is more like a bunch of unnecessary BS. Unless there is some kind of perceived need for Spencer to use every character in Spider-Man ( a point I made before), there was no need for Sin Eater, and thus the other Spider characters, especially if Osborn faked the entire episode so he was not cleansed. In my house the Mrs watches Mexican telenovalas ( Mexican soap operas). This is what Last Remains reminds me of. When does it end? Amazing 900? When Spencer leaves the book? OMD is another issue altogether ( that has become the Gilligan’s Island of comic book stories: Gilligan’s Island lasted three years and you know half a century later, they are not getting off of that Island and now only Ginger is left. OMD is another 13 years and counting). Now we see a new costume and job this is making me. Do we have to go through a variation of Parker Industries, where everyone knows it will fail? New costume? Everyone knows that will be temporary. I came back because I believed only by getting rid of Slott will things change. That was my mistake. Nothing has changed. Did we get a few good stories? Sure but Slott did gave us Spider Island and Renew Your Vows. I am fed up. After the Valentines Day Issue I am done.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 12-31-2020 at 02:35 AM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey_62 View Post

    I wish we'd go back to the days of monthly ASM, because at least then the pacing issue would probably be able to be taken care of better. I'm one of those folks that liked satellite titles lol. They're never the main attraction for readers but there's always good underappreciated stuff to be found in em.
    “This story is moving too slowly, I wish they’d drag the release of it out longer!”

    This is Spencer’s style. He’s not taking one comic and stretching it out over two issues because it’s a biweekly book. If it switched to monthly you’d get basically the same comics you just read just over four and a half years instead of two and a half years.

  3. #153
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    I wish the Spidey editorial would take a page from Hickamn's X Crew and have organized stories weaved across independent titles and whatnot. This was a big miss already since Kindred had already wanted to target other Spider people. Last Remains has also shown that if Spencer wants to do a big event, he really needs more than Matt Rosenberg backing him up because there were serious amounts of underused characters for a 10 issue arc.

    Imagine if we had something like:

    -Amazing Spider-Man - flagship title, Spencer running
    -Spider-Man: Miles Morales
    Spectatulor Spider-Man - could cover B-issue titles of ASM
    -Ghost Spider
    -Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman - focus on more street level stories that also sometimes weave into the main story
    -Spider-Woman
    -Order of The Web - Madame Web/Spider Girl book featuring other Spidey characters that couldn't carry their own title but end up here in a supporting role
    -Amazing Mary-Jane
    -Thunderbolts - Most of the time the lineup is Spidey-villian heavy, so have ta lineup tied into it, maybe pull the KiB lineup in for it and let it be a place for Rosenberg/Spencer to tell their villian stories and whatnot, also a great spot for more Taskmaster/Black Ant
    -Spider-Verse - bi-monthly issue that basically has 2-3 stories in it of other universe Spideys that couldn't carry their own title while also focusing on multiverse Spidey stuff.
    -Scarlet Spider


    Each title could have their own staff instead of a rotating group of artists who burn themselves out now on the strict demands on ASM right now. Lots of the stories would be autonomous from each other but still connect together, especially for events and whatnot. Not to mention all the titles take place in New York City already, which makes navigating everything much easier.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Then they honestly don't like Spider-Man, if I'm being frank. They don't want the story as originally intended and just want some watered down version. They want a "kind of" Peter with "some" character progression. For Peter, progression was age and experience. If people didn't want him progressing past a certain point, then what the hell is the point? Just mindless entertainment?
    I pretty much agree completely. I do think think there is a limit to how much progression a character can receive from an aging POV and so on though. However this approach that Marvel has taken where they almost prefer de-aging Spider-Man is absolutely ridiculous, especially considering that you now have Miles Morales for that fix.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingkalamari View Post
    I wish the Spidey editorial would take a page from Hickamn's X Crew and have organized stories weaved across independent titles and whatnot.
    X-Men has a huge cast, many sub-groups, many sub-genres and so on and so forth. You can't do that with Spider-Man.

    Lots of the stories would be autonomous from each other but still connect together, especially for events and whatnot. Not to mention all the titles take place in New York City already, which makes navigating everything much easier.
    All Marvel wants to edit like that and claims to, but in practice it's not easy.

    What with a pandemic taking out 3 months out of 2020 with no NCBD whatsoever (which people seem to forget for some reason). That led to cancellation and delays (AMJ was supposed to run longer than it did, Non-Stop Spider-Man was supposed to hit the stands) and so on and so forth.

  6. #156
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    As I said before, I don’t believe this was a bad story. It does leave a bad taste and it’s also a huge wasted opportunity for Spencer. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as far as liking it or not. I totally get that.

    My main issue with the story is that literally we haven’t progressed much at all for multiple issues now in a story that was supposed to “rock the core” of Spider-man. I don’t understand how anyone can defend that. Every issue has basically boiled down to Harry essentially saying “ I have answers but wait until next issue"..Rinse and repeat. Ironically enough there are some posters following that same mindset with "I know next issue we will have answers....Just wait and see". Come on now.....

    Eventually the girl has to put out....Teasing just gets tiresome and annoying after a while.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Then they honestly don't like Spider-Man, if I'm being frank. They don't want the story as originally intended and just want some watered down version. They want a "kind of" Peter with "some" character progression. For Peter, progression was age and experience. If people didn't want him progressing past a certain point, then what the hell is the point? Just mindless entertainment?
    Peter Parker graduated high school 55 years ago. He'd should be in his mid-70s now. everybody has a certain point they don't want him progressing past; it might be different for different folks, but it exists for every fan.

    And honestly, what other point would there be for Spider-Man comics besides entertainment? That's literally what they exist for. Comics are entertainment.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    X-Men has a huge cast, many sub-groups, many sub-genres and so on and so forth. You can't do that with Spider-Man.



    All Marvel wants to edit like that and claims to, but in practice it's not easy.

    What with a pandemic taking out 3 months out of 2020 with no NCBD whatsoever (which people seem to forget for some reason). That led to cancellation and delays (AMJ was supposed to run longer than it did, Non-Stop Spider-Man was supposed to hit the stands) and so on and so forth.
    I feel like a I gave a pretty clear outliner of how it could be possible, theres plenty of room for genres across the map, and Spidey has quickly grown to be a extended group of characters in its own right.

    Yeah, Hickman is the only one who is doing it right, and I imagine that's only because the higher ups trust him with it and seem to have more rigid demands and focus on other IPs. Whatever the reasons are for Spidey, that I wont speculate on further, I feel like the output and methods currently used are not being recieved well, especially with artists constantly tagging out and weird comments about art from known talented artists who are probably just overwhelmed with the demands ASM has.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    Peter Parker graduated high school 55 years ago. He'd should be in his mid-70s now. everybody has a certain point they don't want him progressing past; it might be different for different folks, but it exists for every fan.

    And honestly, what other point would there be for Spider-Man comics besides entertainment? That's literally what they exist for. Comics are entertainment.
    Groundbreaking storytelling? A worms eye view of how being a superhero can both help and harm you? A slice of life comic about the responsibility of one man in a world that disdains him?

    Just because you accept mediocrity doesn't mean that I have to.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    “This story is moving too slowly, I wish they’d drag the release of it out longer!”

    This is Spencer’s style. He’s not taking one comic and stretching it out over two issues because it’s a biweekly book. If it switched to monthly you’d get basically the same comics you just read just over four and a half years instead of two and a half years.
    This is NOT Spencer's style; this is padding, plain and simple. You can defend it, you can argue for it, but it's padding.

    Admittedly, I've only read a couple of Spencer's works before ASM, but in them I saw he had q good handle on the story. This? This is the opposite of that.

    Add to that the inability of the title to hold down an artist and you have a book very much in trouble.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    I pretty much agree completely. I do think think there is a limit to how much progression a character can receive from an aging POV and so on though. However this approach that Marvel has taken where they almost prefer de-aging Spider-Man is absolutely ridiculous, especially considering that you now have Miles Morales for that fix.
    Miles Morales isn't a "fix". He's an entirely separate character. I hate when people use that argument.

    Not only would it mean that Miles would be someone who never ages beyond "teenager", but it also proves that Peter as a person isn't important because he's just someone who's replaceable.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Miles Morales isn't a "fix". He's an entirely separate character. I hate when people use that argument.

    Not only would it mean that Miles would be someone who never ages beyond "teenager", but it also proves that Peter as a person isn't important because he's just someone who's replaceable.
    There’s an apparent need that Marvel has for making Peter younger....so yes Miles is the “fix” for that. Whether we agree or not with Marvels mentality that a younger Peter is better for the character is a different argument....But there’s no denying that they attempt to de-age him at every turn. Miles scratches that itch that Marvel seems to have.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    There’s an apparent need that Marvel has for making Peter younger....so yes Miles is the “fix” for that. Whether we agree or not with Marvels mentality that a younger Peter is better for the character is a different argument....But there’s no denying that they attempt to de-age him at every turn. Miles scratches that itch that Marvel seems to have.
    You are 100% correct. Look at MCU movies where Peter was called a kid and was rebooted back to High School. Look at the Clone Saga and OMD/BND as other examples. Speaking of Clone Saga and OMD/BND, why did those stories happen? Marvel was afraid of an adult Peter an the possible loss of income. Believe it or not I was more sympathetic to that argument when they occurred then today. Why? Miles. If readers want a teenage Spider-Man they have Miles. Into The Spider Verse was an Oscar winner. People will buy Miles. 2: In sales the customer is always right. Why? You need them to buy your product.OMD is despised by the overwhelming majority of people who care about it, so instead of doing what the readership wants they choose to play games. Is it like the snarky comments by Slott? No but it is still a big middle finger to those who hate OMD. They even referenced Clone Saga in Gwen’s comic and hinted at Sins Past with Norman’s comments about Gwen. What are they trying to prove? I wish I knew besides being stubborn and refusing to admit those stories suck and need to be dead and buried, never to return.

  14. #164
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    Clone Saga was never about deaging Peter, it was about simplifying the character while trying to say 'Peter wasn't married'.

    One more day we certainly about de-aging Peter, and that is still despised. I have no problem with comics referencing these works, with Norman saying it in Sin's rising, it actually works as the reference is vague enough for folks who don't know about the affair to believe it's to do with him killing Gwen, and those who do know are like 'ohhh, that's creepy'.

    I've said this before, but a good writer will make something good but great writers can make something good out of the most despised pieces of work.
    There's no point in pretending it didn't happen, so you may as well use it to further your own direction.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    Clone Saga was never about deaging Peter, it was about simplifying the character while trying to say 'Peter wasn't married'.

    One more day we certainly about de-aging Peter, and that is still despised. I have no problem with comics referencing these works, with Norman saying it in Sin's rising, it actually works as the reference is vague enough for folks who don't know about the affair to believe it's to do with him killing Gwen, and those who do know are like 'ohhh, that's creepy'.

    I've said this before, but a good writer will make something good but great writers can make something good out of the most despised pieces of work.
    There's no point in pretending it didn't happen, so you may as well use it to further your own direction.
    I agree that Clone Saga was NOT about de-aging Peter, but the rationale behind it was the same as OMD: Fear of a loss of income. What disturbs me about Spencer is for someone who knows his Spider-Man history ( and far better then me), is he has not remembered the lessons of Clone Saga and how it almost bankrupted Marvel. What was it? That particular story confused the audience and got many to stop reading. He risks the same thing happening here. As for Sins Past, the comment “Good Old Days” was without question in my mind not a reference to ASM 121 but Sins Past. Why? Norman Osborn is a total douche. Except for Cletus the most evil character Peter faces. But unlike Cletus he does not enjoy killing. That is not his motivation ( although he has no hesitation about doing that). He enjoyed shacking up with Gwen and making Peter suffer over her death is just a cherry on the top.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 12-31-2020 at 12:43 PM.

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