(Spoilers) So like "Steve" and Diana in WW84.... are we gonna talk about it?

[Perseus]

I really don't want to ignore the moral and ethical implications of Steve's return. Excluding the faulty logic of the "magic monkey's paw" in which nukes can appear from thin air but Steve needs to occupy some poor dudes body, what happened to this guy was rape right. Steve enters this guys body, is the guy just unconscious or is his soul somewhere else, and Diana sleeps with this guy. And this all happens without consent. Like Diana sleeps with a random guy, who in her eyes only is actually Steve, without the guy knowing anything....I'm pretty sure that's rape. This is not a good look. No one questioned this in production? Who thought that anything like this was a good idea? Like think about if the sexes were reversed; a woman takes over another woman's body and a guy sleeps with her.....I think that's bad right?

I just don't like what happened and there is no real explanation in the movie for it. We know that Diana was losing her powers because of her wish not because of Barbra, so Steve being in someone else's body was not the "take" from the "give and take" rules of the rock. This just adds another layer on a movie I thought was below sub-par to begin with.

[Astroman]

I personally think it's worth discussing. Beyond even reversing the sexes (which is extremely valid as a point) I wonder, if this wasn't a WW film but just some other female superhero film, would people be as willing to ignore the really weird plot point?

If Wonder Woman (as a symbol in the semiotic sense) represents true equality and greater understanding and consciousness about things, shouldn't this be a perfect opportunity to discuss the 'blindness' around this the director/writers/actors had? Not to vilify or shame them but to acknowledge and discuss how this isn't something to ignore and to perhaps do better in the future?

[Alpha]

I don't know man, even with your explanation, I don't see it. I don't think it's perverse, and certainly not a big deal. But you are free to discuss it.

[rayray1127]

This scenario was used as a trope a few times in the 80s, and I think once or twice, sex was involved with no air of "rape".

In my mind, Steve occupied that guy's body because the dude is Steve's soul reincarnated, and the "Steve Trevor" conciousness of said soul "woke up" when Diana made her wish. Maybe that's not how Patty and co. envisioned it, but that's how I saw it.

Peace and love to ALL!
Ray
**=w=**

[FutureWonder]

Can't believe [some] people are still going on and on about this. It's a fantasy film about gods and amazons, superheroes and supervillains. A film in which a magical stone turns a woman into a werebeast, who then proceeds to fight the amazon who flies thanks to a magical armor and then on her own power (granted to her by the king of the Olympian gods).
But people (again, some ) are gonna die on this hill? Over a silly movie trope that has been used multiple times in multiple harmless movies.

[Angleman70]

Can't believe [some] people are still going on and on about this. It's a fantasy film about gods and amazons, superheroes and supervillains. A film in which a magical stone turns a woman into a werebeast, who then proceeds to fight the amazon who flies thanks to a magical armor and then on her own power (granted to her by the king of the Olympian gods).
But people (again, some ) are gonna die on this hill? Over a silly movie trope that has been used multiple times in multiple harmless movies.

You are spot on! Why is it that so many want to tear down a ‘MOVIE’ about a fictional hero? It’s just a story that involves magic. I haven’t seen the film yet but even if I don’t like it, I will just move on. I have seen YouTube videos where the narrator tears WW84 down for not being realistic and believable. This is again about a fictional character! What is realistic about a superhero anyway? Also, why do so many want them to be realistic? Most likely I will like it. As for the plot line of Steve Trevor’s return and how it was implemented, this was done in the comic before by Trevor’s alternate implanted in the God Eros in WW Volume 1, 322.

[ChibaMariners]

IDK how that made it out of the 1st draft, let alone into the theatrical cut of the movie. They didn't pay any mind to this dude's existence. As a matter of fact they walk around his apartment clowning his tastes. What was going to be the long play? Because if it didn't start inconveniencing Diana's ability to protect humanity, looks like they were prepared to move on as if nothing happened.

If you can materialize nukes out of thin air, they could've just "poofed" Steve into existence, and did a Thanos style "snap" when it was time for WW to send him away. No weird body possession stuff necessary.

[Psy-lock]

Things like this make the movie feel like it was literally made in the 80's. Just because something was a popular trope at the time doesn't me it was ever a good trope.

[Geraldofrivia]

She is Zeus's daughter after all.

[brettc1]

I really don't want to ignore the moral and ethical implications of Steve's return. Excluding the faulty logic of the "magic monkey's paw" in which nukes can appear from thin air but Steve needs to occupy some poor dudes body, what happened to this guy was rape right. Steve enters this guys body, is the guy just unconscious or is his soul somewhere else, and Diana sleeps with this guy. And this all happens without consent. Like Diana sleeps with a random guy, who in her eyes only is actually Steve, without the guy knowing anything....I'm pretty sure that's rape. This is not a good look. No one questioned this in production? Who thought that anything like this was a good idea? Like think about if the sexes were reversed; a woman takes over another woman's body and a guy sleeps with her.....I think that's bad right?

I just don't like what happened and there is no real explanation in the movie for it. We know that Diana was losing her powers because of her wish not because of Barbra, so Steve being in someone else's body was not the "take" from the "give and take" rules of the rock. This just adds another layer on a movie I thought was below sub-par to begin with.

First, the why not bring Steve back whole question.

The wishes start off pretty small, and then get much bigger. My take was that was part of what was going on. Bringing a soul back is a lot easier than doing it and recreating a body.

Per the sexual assault - I wondered about it but ultimately I don’t see it. The guy literally wasn’t in his body when it happened. And I don’t just mean he was unconscious, he just wasn’t there AT ALL. You can’t violate somebody if they aren’t there in any sense whatsoever. Whatever happened did not happen to him.

Consider this - if person A and B swap bodies, and then person A has sex while their mind is in B’s physical shell, was Person B raped? They were in another body at the time.

The whole idea of Diana being willing to leave the poor guys soul in limbo forever is to me far more troubling.

[Perseus]

First, the why not bring Steve back whole question.

The wishes start off pretty small, and then get much bigger. My take was that was part of what was going on. Bringing a soul back is a lot easier than doing it and recreating a body.

Per the sexual assault - I wondered about it but ultimately I don’t see it. The guy literally wasn’t in his body when it happened. And I don’t just mean he was unconscious, he just wasn’t there AT ALL. You can’t violate somebody if they aren’t there in any sense whatsoever. Whatever happened did not happen to him.

Consider this - if person A and B swap bodies, and then person A has sex while their mind is in B’s physical shell, was Person B raped? They were in another body at the time.

The whole idea of Diana being willing to leave the poor guys soul in limbo forever is to me far more troubling.

The McGuffin has some pretty dodgy rules tbh. 1) There is a "give and take" except when there isn't 2) You only get one wish except for Barbara 3) every person's wish needs to be rescinded, this is assuming the people who wished to see there parents again or wanting to be cured of something 4) despite all that happened people just moved on like nothing happened, there was no mind wipe or anything

If person A slept with someone while inside person B's body, then person A is committing sexual assault as person A is using person B's body without consent. And yeah, Diana being fine with whatever happened to Handsome Guy's soul is kind of troubling too.

[Alpha]

The McGuffin has some pretty dodgy rules tbh. 1) There is a "give and take" except when there isn't 2) You only get one wish except for Barbara 3) every person's wish needs to be rescinded, this is assuming the people who wished to see there parents again or wanting to be cured of something 4) despite all that happened people just moved on like nothing happened, there was no mind wipe or anything

If person A slept with someone while inside person B's body, then person A is committing sexual assault as person A is using person B's body without consent. And yeah, Diana being fine with whatever happened to Handsome Guy's soul is kind of troubling too.

I'm not even arguing if it was consensual or not, I'm saying that it doesn't apply to real life so who cares!

Barbara doesn't get two wishes. In the Airplane scene I think it's stated very obviously that Max Lord will use the price of other people's wishes to grant Cheetah her Apex form. And in what instance does a wish not have a cost during the film?

[brettc1]

The McGuffin has some pretty dodgy rules tbh. 1) There is a "give and take" except when there isn't 2) You only get one wish except for Barbara 3) every person's wish needs to be rescinded, this is assuming the people who wished to see there parents again or wanting to be cured of something 4) despite all that happened people just moved on like nothing happened, there was no mind wipe or anything

If person A slept with someone while inside person B's body, then person A is committing sexual assault as person A is using person B's body without consent. And yeah, Diana being fine with whatever happened to Handsome Guy's soul is kind of troubling too.

Is it your body of you’re in a different one? Did Faith sexually assault Buffy when they were mind swapped in Buffy the Vampire Slayer?