(Spoilers) So like "Steve" and Diana in WW84.... are we gonna talk about it?

[Alpha]

Someone having more power over your body than you and forcing you to do what you don't want to (control over your body = being overpowered by someone stronger).

Someone taking away your ability to make decisions (mind control = drugs). Could also be a stand in for being emotionally manipulated sometimes or coerced by other means like employer-employee relations.

[Jim Kelly]

Some people may have a misplaced sense of compassion. But talking about what's in this movie as if it relates to what those of us have experienced in our lives--it isn't just tone deaf, it's offensive and it's triggering. We have to dredge up our own feelings and memories and deal with them all over again, in response to these posts that relate what we've gone through to what happens in a magic fantasy movie. Do you not hear how insulting that is? I wish it was magic. That's not how it works in the real world. 'Nuff said.

[Alpha]

I hope this thread at least dispels a little bit the line of criticism that WW84 is a sexually abusive film, within this community.

[DochaDocha]

Some people may have a misplaced sense of compassion. But talking about what's in this movie as if it relates to what those of us have experienced in our lives--it isn't just tone deaf, it's offensive and it's triggering. We have to dredge up our own feelings and memories and deal with them all over again, in response to these posts that relate what we've gone through to what happens in a magic fantasy movie. Do you not hear how insulting that is? I wish it was magic. That's not how it works in the real world. 'Nuff said.

I'm with you here 100%.

I get things like nitpicking a scene, or saying you wish the movie went differently, or wish the writer thought about context X or Y, but any time you take a completely unrealistic scenario and compare it to real-world crimes that have real-world victims, I think that's going way too far. That, to me, is far tackier and less tasteful than when a writer didn't think something all the way through and clearly meant not to portray something that was meant to be some sort of real-world hideous acts. If someone says the scene is like [fill in the blank real-world situation], my answer is just no, it's not. This ain't Revenge of the Nerds.

But just to amuse myself, I like to think WW and "Steve" had a discussion that night about how it's weird to do it with someone else's body instead of Steve's so they didn't.

[Robanker]

I'm with you here 100%.

I get things like nitpicking a scene, or saying you wish the movie went differently, or wish the writer thought about context X or Y, but any time you take a completely unrealistic scenario and compare it to real-world crimes that have real-world victims, I think that's going way too far. That, to me, is far tackier and less tasteful than when a writer didn't think something all the way through and clearly meant not to portray something that was meant to be some sort of real-world hideous acts. If someone says the scene is like [fill in the blank real-world situation], my answer is just no, it's not. This ain't Revenge of the Nerds.

But just to amuse myself, I like to think WW and "Steve" had a discussion that night about how it's weird to do it with someone else's body instead of Steve's so they didn't.

Thirded, essentially, but I do think they did it. I can't imagine them going back to cute cuddling in bed the morning after should they had that discussion. They had sex.

[brettc1]

Even under the best of circumstances Steve put this guy's body in harms way. Again, without his permission. Mind controlled, possessed, however you want to put it, none of it was necessary. There was no logical reason this Infinity Sto-er, Dreamstone couldn't just give him his old body back. It literally made nuclear missiles appear out of thin air. This contributed absolutely nothing to the story whatsoever. There was no reason to do it this way.

Let’s think about that.

If the wishes are undone, then it’s like it never happened and if Steve were killed the guy would still be alive. As evidence the guy who killed the woman renounces his wish and the woman presumably is restored.

Second, the wishes are shown to constantly increase in scale and impact. No physical matter is created until after Max imbues himself with stone’s power. That’s when things get freaky.

Or it could be this, that I brought over from another thread...

I saw Wonder Woman 1984 on HBO Max a few days ago. It wasn't a bad movie in my opinion.

However, there's something that's been bugging me: was it ever explained why Wonder Woman never flies in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice or Justice League despite figuring out how to do so decades earlier?

I also have a few questions about the Dreamstone:

1. It's my understanding the object takes away something from the user in exchange for granting the wish. Does this always happen in a "magical" manner, or does the direct result of a wish also count as "paying the price"? For example, would the guy who wished for his wife to drop dead later lose anything else besides his wife?

2. Does the scope of the wish correlate to what the Dreamstone takes in exchange? For example, would the guy who wished for coffee suffer other consequences down the line, besides simply burning his tongue?

I never noticed this but it is to right.

The trick is, you can’t enjoy your wish. Nobody who gets what they want actually enjoys it once they have it. That’s why Max sickens.

Had Steve come back whole, he could have stayed. Coming back in another mans body means that Diana can never truly know happiness because they will always know her wish cost someone else.

It’s a double effect. The a president loses his power to pay for his wish, AND ALSO his wish for more missiles to ensure peace is what triggers a nuclear war.

You pay for what you want and then can’t enjoy it anyway.

[Castling]

I think the wish made the body wholly Steve's.
Handsome guy was effectively killed so that Steve could move in.
Hence none of the struggles between the original soul and the invader that you see in possession cases in entertainment. Steve didn't even have the man's memories, which means Kristoff is completely gone and it's now Steve's body. It's very much like Heaven Can Wait .

[brettc1]

I think the wish made the body wholly Steve's.
Handsome guy was effectively killed so that Steve could move in.
Hence none of the struggles between the original soul and the invader that you see in possession cases in entertainment. Steve didn't even have the man's memories, which means Kristoff is completely gone and it's now Steve's body. It's very much like Heaven Can Wait .

So murder?

No. I would say it’s translocation. Steve said he was somewhere else but couldn’t remember details.

It’s like squatting in a house while the owner is on holidays. But it’s not his body. It’s only the power of the wish that’s keeping Steve in and the owner out.

[Goldrake]

proper term is spiritual possession not rape.

[Psy-lock]

proper term is spiritual possession not rape.

There aren't mutually exclusive

[superduperman]

So let's say Steve got shot while wearing this guy's body. And he dies. What then? Everyone seems to be looking at the end of the movie and saying "no harm done". The characters don't know they're in a movie and how it will end. No one seems to even understand how this stone works. Which makes it even more problematic. Steve is in this guy's body. But he doesn't know how and he doesn't know where the guy is at the time. So if something happens to Steve, no one knows what becomes of this guy. Steve may have killed this guy and he'd never know it. I don't see an out here that looks good. No matter how you examine it, Steve put someone else in harms way without their knowledge and didn't know what would happen to him if he died. And, again, there was no reason to do it this way. He could have just gotten his old body back. He had to go back to where he came from for Diana to get her powers back regardless. This was an odd creative choice regardless.

[Alpha]

So let's say Steve got shot while wearing this guy's body. And he dies. What then? Everyone seems to be looking at the end of the movie and saying "no harm done". The characters don't know they're in a movie and how it will end. No one seems to even understand how this stone works. Which makes it even more problematic. Steve is in this guy's body. But he doesn't know how and he doesn't know where the guy is at the time. So if something happens to Steve, no one knows what becomes of this guy. Steve may have killed this guy and he'd never know it. I don't see an out here that looks good. No matter how you examine it, Steve put someone else in harms way without their knowledge and didn't know what would happen to him if he died. And, again, there was no reason to do it this way. He could have just gotten his old body back. He had to go back to where he came from for Diana to get her powers back regardless. This was an odd creative choice regardless.

I ain't arguing against it being a bad idea. But it doesn't make this film "problematic "

[Angleman70]

Can't believe [some] people are still going on and on about this. It's a fantasy film about gods and amazons, superheroes and supervillains. A film in which a magical stone turns a woman into a werebeast, who then proceeds to fight the amazon who flies thanks to a magical armor and then on her own power (granted to her by the king of the Olympian gods).
But people (again, some ) are gonna die on this hill? Over a silly movie trope that has been used multiple times in multiple harmless movies.

You are spot on! Why is it that so many want to tear down a ‘MOVIE’ about a fictional hero? It’s just a story that involves magic. I haven’t seen the film yet but even if I don’t like it, I will just move on. I have seen YouTube videos where the narrator tears WW84 down for not being realistic and believable. This is again about a fictional character! What is realistic about a superhero anyway? Also, why do so many want them to be realistic? Most likely I will like it. As for the plot line of Steve Trevor’s return and how it was implemented, this was done in the comic before by Trevor’s alternate implanted in the God Eros in WW Volume 1, 322.

[brettc1]

So let's say Steve got shot while wearing this guy's body. And he dies. What then? Everyone seems to be looking at the end of the movie and saying "no harm done". The characters don't know they're in a movie and how it will end. No one seems to even understand how this stone works. Which makes it even more problematic. Steve is in this guy's body. But he doesn't know how and he doesn't know where the guy is at the time. So if something happens to Steve, no one knows what becomes of this guy. Steve may have killed this guy and he'd never know it. I don't see an out here that looks good. No matter how you examine it, Steve put someone else in harms way without their knowledge and didn't know what would happen to him if he died. And, again, there was no reason to do it this way. He could have just gotten his old body back. He had to go back to where he came from for Diana to get her powers back regardless. This was an odd creative choice regardless.

Okay, so Steve doesn’t go with Fisna to Egypt, she dies in the convoy battle, and the world is obliterated in a nuclear Armageddon.

I don’t see the handsome man being happier with this outcome.

I’ve already given an explanation upthread why he doesnt just get a body all his own.

Note also Max’s comment to a Steve. “What do you wish for? To be a real live boy?” The Pinnochio reference Gives you some insight into the stones malicious nature.

[Goldrake]

You are spot on! Why is it that so many want to tear down a ‘MOVIE’ about a fictional hero? It’s just a story that involves magic. I haven’t seen the film yet but even if I don’t like it, I will just move on. I have seen YouTube videos where the narrator tears WW84 down for not being realistic and believable. This is again about a fictional character! What is realistic about a superhero anyway? Also, why do so many want them to be realistic? Most likely I will like it. As for the plot line of Steve Trevor’s return and how it was implemented, this was done in the comic before by Trevor’s alternate implanted in the God Eros in WW Volume 1, 322.

Exactly
What I am reading out there is ridiculous. "not being realistic and believable" are these people serious?
As if a kryptonian alien, an Amazon or a guy that rules Atlantis are real! Incredible what one has to read.
At least not all are making fuss about this issue, one funny comment I read was on these lines "I bet that 90% of men would not object of having sex with Wonder Woman, even if Steve Trevor uses their body, so Steve help yourself"