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  1. #1
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    Default Potential Secret Wars Spoiler: The Beyonder's Experiments = The Simulation Hypothesis (Our universe is a 2D Projection)?

    I feel that the simulation hypothesis is an underlying theme in Hickman's work.

    Here is a description of the simulation hypothesis as described by Wikipedia:

    "The philosopher Nick Bostrom developed an expanded argument examining the probability of our reality being a simulacrum. His argument states that at least one of the following statements is true:

    1. Human civilization is unlikely to reach a level of technological maturity capable of producing simulated realities, or such simulations are physically impossible to construct. This article essentially rules out this possibility... http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artifi...olution-1.html

    2. A comparable civilization reaching aforementioned technological status will likely not produce a significant number of simulated realities (one that might push the probable existence of digital entities beyond the probable number of "real" entities in a Universe) for any of a number of reasons, such as, diversion of computational processing power for other tasks, ethical considerations of holding entities captive in simulated realities, etc.

    3. Any entities with our general set of experiences are almost certainly living in a simulation.

    His argument rests on the premise that given sufficiently advanced technology, it is possible to represent the populated surface of the Earth without recourse to digital physics; that the qualia experienced by a simulated consciousness is comparable or equivalent to that of a naturally occurring human consciousness; and that one or more levels of simulation within simulations would be feasible given only a modest expenditure of computational resources in the real world.

    If one assumes first that humans will not be destroyed or destroy themselves before developing such a technology, and, next, that human descendants will have no overriding legal restrictions or moral compunctions against simulating biospheres or their own historical biosphere, then it would be unreasonable to count ourselves among the small minority of genuine organisms who, sooner or later, will be vastly outnumbered by artificial simulations."

    This sounds eerily similar to the story Hickman is telling. Reading all of Hickman's work at Marvel in order, the below statements are hinted at if not outright stated:

    A. All of reality is a simulation (an experiment as Hickman described it) run by higher beings
    (beings represented by the Beyonders inside the simulated reality). The beyonders are just representations of the beings, like computer code, similar to the mapmaker code trying to trace back the source of the incursions. The higher beings that the beyonders represent are inaccessible to anyone inside the simulation. By the way, if it's not clear, I'm using the components that a computer needs to function purely as an analogy. It's the easiest way I could come up with to describe the role each piece plays in Hickman's story.

    B. The higher beings (manifested inside the simulation as the beyonders) are ending the simulation and the molecule man is our perception of the code that will terminate the simulation. Entities like The Living Tribunal and the ex nihilo serve important core functions in the BIOS that oversee the simulation and seed it with life. Galactus serves a role analogous to a hard drive defragger. Thus, as powerful as they seem, they are merely a part of the simulation and no longer serve a function now that the simulation is ending.

    C. Doom found out 25 years ahead of the termination date and the incursions are the byproduct of him trying to save the simulation. His actions effectively recruit multitudes of intelligent entities in the simulation towards the task of preventing the simulation from being terminated.

    D. Battleworld is analogous to a computer's boot OS built by doom by salvaging parts of various realities. It is hidden inside the BIOS aka the white space of the "computer (just an analogy)" running the simulation. It's likely that The Living Tribunal existed in the BIOS since The Living Tribunal is a security protocol for the entire simulation/multiverse. This is why The Living Tribunal's code is being used as a life raft to transport a handful of survivors over to the BIOS.

    E. Once the Beyonders finish shutting down the original simulation and effectively reformat the hard drive, this boot OS (battleworld) will serve as the interface that allows Franklin Richards to recreate the multiverse from inside the BIOS itself.

    F. Franklin Richards, like the beyonders themselves, seems to be made up of the computer code that enables the beyonders, ex nihilo and the living tribunal to create "life" or alter reality throughout the multiverse. How and why is not yet explained.



    What are your thoughts on this? Do you think Hickman is challenging our perception of reality itself using the comic book medium?

    To understand how this plays into our world, these three articles are essential reading:

    http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/pr...-20140826.html

    http://www.nature.com/news/simulatio...logram-1.14328

    and most importantly,

    http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html
    Last edited by Wikoogle; 05-12-2015 at 12:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member MikeMC005's Avatar
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    wow... I just... Wow...

    Pull List:
    DC: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Action Comics, Detective Comics, Green Lanterns, The Flash, Aquaman, Titans, Justice League, HJATGL, Supergirl, Superwoman, DC Bombshells
    Marvel: CANCELLED (good luck with your seasonal approach and constant reboots... I'll miss the characters though)
    Zenescope: Grimm Fairy Tales

  3. #3
    Incredible Member Wissenschaft's Avatar
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    A video game tried this story twist in "Star Ocean, till the end of time". In short, it did not go over well with fans. So I'm hoping marvel doesn't make the same mistake. And to be honest, I'm pretty sure that not going to be the case.

  4. #4
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    secret-wars-04-06-7b1cc.jpg

    The ideas presented through out secret wars, such as the notion of defragmented remnants of different deleted realities being pieced back together into one world, eventually ending with doom and adult franklin richards rebooting all of reality in secret wars #8, the super powers that so many people have that defy all laws of physics, chemistry and biology (even basics ones like energy can't be created or destroyed), these things only make sense if the marvel multiverse itself was a simulation.


    It's not a story twist, everything we know about the nature of our universe suggests that it may well be the truth...

    http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/pr...-20140826.html

    http://www.nature.com/news/simulatio...logram-1.14328

    Besides, it's not the twist that people reacted negatively to, it's the way in which the twist was delivered. Hickman seems like he can flesh it out far better than most, though he may need to do an Epilogue to Secret Wars to really flesh it out the way it deserves to be.
    Last edited by Wikoogle; 06-25-2015 at 03:39 PM.

  5. #5
    Royal graffiX's Avatar
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    Wat8.jpg

    1010101010101010

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wissenschaft View Post
    A video game tried this story twist in "Star Ocean, till the end of time". In short, it did not go over well with fans. So I'm hoping marvel doesn't make the same mistake. And to be honest, I'm pretty sure that not going to be the case.
    It's not the story, it's how it's presented and written.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    I want to point that those researchers don't claim that our Universe is an artificial simulation, only that our Universe is a reflection of sorts of the "true" Universe.

  8. #8
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    So...we're dreams? Or we're dreamers?

  9. #9
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    Well damn. My third eye hurts now.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    So...we're dreams? Or we're dreamers?
    We're both. Just because someone's reality is just a small part of yet another larger reality that they may not be aware of doesn't make their experiences any less real.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Tazpocalapse's Avatar
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    Nice write up.

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    If this reality is a simulation, then it brings to mind an issue of Bendis Avengers during the Secret Invasion, where all the Illuminati were sitting in a room, and suddenly realised they weren't the real Illuminati, but some simulation. It turned out they were all clones, but the reader had no idea, and had to stop immersing themselves in these characters because we were duped into thinking they were the real thing. It was one of the most startling stories I've read, because it took me out of my self-assurance and into the realm of paranoia for a moment.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    This magnficent analysis is the type of posting that makes this forum a joy to read. Well done!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamlore View Post
    This magnficent analysis is the type of posting that makes this forum a joy to read. Well done!
    Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed the analysis.

    There's quite a few number of threads running through both Hickmans FF and Avengers runs that hint at precisely this outcome.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member Bafflement's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikoogle View Post
    It's not a story twist, everything we know about the nature of our universe suggests that it may well be the truth...

    http://www.fnal.gov/pub/presspass/pr...-20140826.html

    http://www.nature.com/news/simulatio...logram-1.14328

    Besides, it's not the twist that people reacted negatively to, it's the way in which the twist was delivered. Hickman seems like he can flesh it out far better than most, though he may need to do an Epilogue to Secret Wars to really flesh it out the way it deserves to be.
    The papers those articles refer to cover something rather different from what you're talking about.

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