T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Maine Starfish]

and pretty curious about the Wakanda TV show just announced

[Redjack]

They should have recast it. James Bond. Captain Kirk. James Rhodes. Daredevil. Batman. Superman. The Flash. Etc.

It is not "disrespect" to an actor or an audience to recast a role, any role, even one the actor originated, if the actor is, for some reason, unable or unwilling to continue.

Also, in my experience, zero decisions in "Hollywood" are made because of respect or sentiment. Zero.

A company has a plan. The plan takes hits from various factors, sometimes including death. The plan adjusts to deal with the hits but, on the whole, unless the BRAND is tarnished in some way (rape allegations for the lead actor/director/producer or some actual criminal conviction) the plan stays the same.

The plan is abandoned when it stops making money.

The end.

Everything contrary to that is spin.

[Ezyo1000]

That might be a part of it but I just think the biggest thing is that there is tragedy involved, and no actor right now wants to associate themselves with that in a controversial way. If Chadwick hadn't unfortunately passed and just walked away from the role, it would be a completely different matter. Unless the reason for walking away was for something terrible, we would definitely see actors throwing their hats into the ring and Marvel would for sure recast. But this is completely different. This is the lead actor of a monumental and groundbreaking franchise with such an iconic portrayal dying. This is a young actor dying as his career just began to take off. It's way too tragic for some other actor to just come in and Marvel to act like nothing happened.

Yes, they can do it coming from a place of respect but that is still very difficult to do. It's a very difficult thing for a megacorporation like Disney and Marvel to sell to the public that it's out of respect. Nobody believes Disney and Marvel pump out these billion dollar grossing year after year for the advancement of art, for the approval of comic book fans or for the upliftment of black people. They sell these movies to everyone to make as much money as possible. Any other thing that comes alongside that is just a bonus and we all just go along with it because we actually enjoy the movies. They aren't about to change that for a small group of people when it seems like the majority is looking the other way.

Just like pretending that they care yet barely changed the release date for the sequel despite being "devastated" is very telling of the dishonesty behind their "honoring Chadwick". Honoring him would of been to put the project on hold or push thee release date out further than what they have done.

You can't claim that they are honoring Chadwick and all while removing the literal franchise holder and anchors l for essentially brand new director created characters while also turning around and contradicting what was said prior to Chad's passing and now claiming that Wakanda was always bigger. It's ones own words against their own words. That's the issue. Again greed is driving all of this. Sad enough to not recast bit not sad enough to allow proper grieving and not try and continue the brand without the franchise holder

[Will Evans]

I'll be really curious who the star of the Wakanda TV show is.

So far, all the Disney shows announced (unless I am forgetting one) have focused on known heroes/characters. WandaVision, FalWS, Loki, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye, MK, She-Hulk, IronHeart, Armor Wars.

The only exception so far, is the Secret Invasion one. That is anchored by SLJ, who is a big deal.

All these stories are pulling from comics and twisting them, like the MCU does.

The BP Mythos (can we even call it anymore? The Wakandan Mythos i guess is the new thing) doesn't have much of that to offer. It has been solely anchored by T'challa. Shuri is the only one that has come close to being "more" than a supporting character. But if she is going to anchor the movie, it seems really weird to anchor the show. None of the other shows are anchored by the main movie heroes. They are either Avengers characters (wanda, vision, hawkeye), side kicks given the spotlight (rhodey, loki, fury, falcon, ws) or brand new introduced characters (mm, shulk, IH).

So that really leaves a show focused on M'baku... which there are no comics to adapt from. And the Jabari don't really like "outside" stuff anyway.

A show focused on Okoye... which their are no comics to adapt from. And the Dora's in the MCU are low in number and 100% loyal to the crown as bodyguards. They don't go on missions according to the mythos given.

A show focused on Nakia and the spies/war dogs. Makes the most sense due to Lupita's star power... except there is nothing in the comics to pull from again. And they connected T'challa and Nakia so hard that it is going to be hard to bring up one without bringing up the other in some way. Or you ignore it. Both are kinda awkward. And would Lupita even star in a TV show? She didn't even show up or wasn't asked to be in IW/EG.

Basically, Marvel is going ot have to make up a completely original story with NOTHING from the comics to pull from that has any use, if they aren't going to use Shuri. Which means they are REALLY counting on the "Wakanda" brand to be the hook. Which means, the mythos will have to be groundbreaking AGAIN for it to work. There is a very real chance they try and make the show around a completely new character (QDJ???) that hasn't bee introduced in the movie yet. And... the Wakandan mythos are WEAK for supporting cast stories.

I can see the War Dogs show happening if Disney would commit to it, and Lupita liked the premise/scripts.

[BlackClaw]

They should have recast it. James Bond. Captain Kirk. James Rhodes. Daredevil. Batman. Superman. The Flash. Etc.

It is not "disrespect" to an actor or an audience to recast a role, any role, even one the actor originated, if the actor is, for some reason, unable or unwilling to continue.

Also, in my experience, zero decisions in "Hollywood" are made because of respect or sentiment. Zero.

A company has a plan. The plan takes hits from various factors, sometimes including death. The plan adjusts to deal with the hits but, on the whole, unless the BRAND is tarnished in some way (rape allegations for the lead actor/director/producer or some actual criminal conviction) the plan stays the same.

The plan is abandoned when it stops making money.

The end.

Everything contrary to that is spin.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[Dboi654]

They should have recast it. James Bond. Captain Kirk. James Rhodes. Daredevil. Batman. Superman. The Flash. Etc.

It is not "disrespect" to an actor or an audience to recast a role, any role, even one the actor originated, if the actor is, for some reason, unable or unwilling to continue.

Also, in my experience, zero decisions in "Hollywood" are made because of respect or sentiment. Zero.

A company has a plan. The plan takes hits from various factors, sometimes including death. The plan adjusts to deal with the hits but, on the whole, unless the BRAND is tarnished in some way (rape allegations for the lead actor/director/producer or some actual criminal conviction) the plan stays the same.

The plan is abandoned when it stops making money.

The end.

Everything contrary to that is spin.

[MindofShadow]

I can see the War Dogs show happening if Disney would commit to it, and Lupita liked the premise/scripts.

I do wonder how exciting this would be for the casuals though.

To go from She-Hulk to... off brand Black Widow is a jump lol.

There isn't much "comic" in the War Dogs. You'd really have to play up the technology to make it a "comic book show"

[dkrook]

Like who? Which of these vague black actors do you know that want to do it? That "would jump at the chance" as you put it, because none of them have come forward. None of them have said anything about that. None of them are campaigning.

You want to know why? Because even if they actually wanted to play the part (which we don't know), none of them are stupid. They know damn well that if they publicly put it out there that they wanted it, they would face backlash from many people. Those of you that would be happy about a recast don't represent everyone else, and you may even be in a minority. And even if it was an equal split (which I don't think it is), that's more than enough discouragement. That's enough to tell their agents and Marvel to avoid the controversy.

All of these things you're saying are just projected and idealised notions onto people in an industry you're not part of because of what you want. Not every actor is in it for money and fame, and that isn't even guaranteed. If being Chadwick's replacement while honouring was as easy as you paint it out to be then why haven't any of these black actors said anything about it? Why haven't they protested Marvel's decision? Why aren't they putting their names out there? Answer me that.

Respectfully bro, do you not think your doing the same kind of projecting that you're accusing others of per this statement :

All of these things you're saying are just projected and idealised notions onto people in an industry you're not part of because of what you want. Not every actor is in it for money and fame, and that isn't even guaranteed. If being Chadwick's replacement while honouring was as easy as you paint it out to be then why haven't any of these black actors said anything about it? Why haven't they protested Marvel's decision? Why aren't they putting their names out there? Answer me that.

How do you know actors haven't tried going for the role of T'Challa only to be rebuffed? Furthermore how do we know that Feige is resolute to not have another T'Challa and isn't allowing for people to go for the role. Facts and reality have proven Hollywood is drive by money, not emotion or sentiment.

[BushidoBlade2]

Is it too much to hope that maybe they have T'Challa in the sequel but he stays in the suit the whole time. When asked a question he can just nod yes or no.

[Overhazard]

They should have recast it. James Bond. Captain Kirk. James Rhodes. Daredevil. Batman. Superman. The Flash. Etc.

It is not "disrespect" to an actor or an audience to recast a role, any role, even one the actor originated, if the actor is, for some reason, unable or unwilling to continue.

Also, in my experience, zero decisions in "Hollywood" are made because of respect or sentiment. Zero.

A company has a plan. The plan takes hits from various factors, sometimes including death. The plan adjusts to deal with the hits but, on the whole, unless the BRAND is tarnished in some way (rape allegations for the lead actor/director/producer or some actual criminal conviction) the plan stays the same.

The plan is abandoned when it stops making money.

The end.

Everything contrary to that is spin.

All they had to do was delay the movie by a year or two, then announce the recast. Twitter would be angry for about 12-18 hours, a day tops, I'm sure a politician would say something stupid and take their attention away. People would only get angry again around the time the movie came out, they'd get over it though.

[Ekie]

That might be a part of it but I just think the biggest thing is that there is tragedy involved, and no actor right now wants to associate themselves with that in a controversial way. If Chadwick hadn't unfortunately passed and just walked away from the role, it would be a completely different matter. Unless the reason for walking away was for something terrible, we would definitely see actors throwing their hats into the ring and Marvel would for sure recast. But this is completely different. This is the lead actor of a monumental and groundbreaking franchise with such an iconic portrayal dying. This is a young actor dying as his career just began to take off. It's way too tragic for some other actor to just come in and Marvel to act like nothing happened.

Yes, they can do it coming from a place of respect but that is still very difficult to do. It's a very difficult thing for a megacorporation like Disney and Marvel to sell to the public that it's out of respect. Nobody believes Disney and Marvel pump out these billion dollar grossing year after year for the advancement of art, for the approval of comic book fans or for the upliftment of black people. They sell these movies to everyone to make as much money as possible. Any other thing that comes alongside that is just a bonus and we all just go along with it because we actually enjoy the movies. They aren't about to change that for a small group of people when it seems like the majority is looking the other way.

You keep saying no actor wants this job but you don't have any proof the same way that I don't have any proof Of the opposite Period the only proof I have is that actors like to Make money Period just like Disney likes to make money which is why they're pushing the sequel out there to begin with Despite their whole grieving process that they claim to have. You're projecting your feelings onto other actors In fact All actors in Hollywood for some reason. My argument isn't based on feelings It's based on the fact that actors Act And the bigger the role the more people that want it . Nobody in Hollywood doesn't want a big role No matter how they get it Unless they're already high up on the food chain And we can only name about two black actors Who fit that description . You keep saying it's too tragic to move on from Chadwick Boseman While at the same time ignoring the fact That Marvel Is quickly moving on without Chadwick Boseman And his character Inside his own universe . They clearly don't share your level of grief .

If Marvel did a casting call today Do you think nobody would show up to be a lead character in the most lucrative movie franchise they have?

[Will Evans]

Disney + TV show main lead ideas (most of these I believe were possible even before Chadwick’s death):

Shuri
Nakia
M’Baku
Casper Kole
Okoye
Ayo and Aneka: Midnight Angels
Queen Divine Justice

Of these, I can see Okoye, M’Baku and Shuri staying in the films.

Of those remaining, I can only see Nakia getting a tv show. With the remaining like Ayo, Casper, Queen Divine, etc being her supporting characters.

[chief12d]

I do wonder how exciting this would be for the casuals though.

To go from She-Hulk to... off brand Black Widow is a jump lol.

There isn't much "comic" in the War Dogs. You'd really have to play up the technology to make it a "comic book show"

But it’s black Black Widow, that’ll get the audiences raving lol. That said, I do think Nakia should take the mantle of BP. A War Dog show doesn’t really make sense if you want to explore the world of Wakanda, they’re spies dispatched to foreign nations. Sure, the HZ could have a division located in Wakanda, but if we’re looking to explore the various tribes, political factions, and religions it makes more sense to focus on the Dora, M’Baku/W’Kabi, and Ramonda.

With guest appearances from the likes of Shuri and Nakia while using obscure characters like Kantu and Hadari to fill in the spaces. A Kingdom of Wakanda show makes the most sense as a Game of Thrones-style series with multiple POVs across several institutions and walks of life. T’Challa will be the Eddard Stark of these next installments assuming he doesn’t come back lol.

[Dboi654]

You keep saying no actor wants this job but you don't have any proof the same way that I don't have any proof Of the opposite Period the only proof I have is that actors like to Make money Period just like Disney likes to make money which is why they're pushing the sequel out there to begin with Despite their whole grieving process that they claim to have. You're projecting your feelings onto other actors In fact All actors in Hollywood for some reason. My argument isn't based on feelings It's based on the fact that actors Act And the bigger the role the more people that want it . Nobody in Hollywood doesn't want a big role No matter how they get it Unless they're already high up on the food chain And we can only name about two black actors Who fit that description . You keep saying it's too tragic to move on from Chadwick Boseman While at the same time ignoring the fact That Marvel Is quickly moving on without Chadwick Boseman And his character Inside his own universe . They clearly don't share your level of grief .

If Marvel did a casting call today Do you think nobody would show up to be a lead character in the most lucrative movie franchise they have?

Marvel is moving so fast they don't even know who T'Challa is anymore lol.

[chief12d]

All they had to do was delay the movie by a year or two, then announce the recast. Twitter would be angry for about 12-18 hours, a day tops, I'm sure a politician would say something stupid and take their attention away. People would only get angry again around the time the movie came out, they'd get over it though.

This is why I push back against the idea this was motivated by money and not emotion. I can 100% buy Disney would go in your direction because it probably disrupts their plans a lot less than killing off or otherwise sidelining a character that was being positioned as the lead of their new generation. But I can also buy them kowtowing to what Coogler wanted because he was emotionally devastated by Boseman’s passing and wanted to use the sequel to memorialize his friend.

What would they do if the director that got them an Oscar and headlines their biggest solo superhero franchise didn’t want to push forward with someone new? Fire him? After just losing the star of the franchise? Coogler and the cast/creators had all the cards in their hands with this decision, no way Disney is forcing them to do something that they didn’t want to do. The optics alone if that were to ever be leaked would condemn the sequel to eternal controversy. This wasn’t a Disney decision, it was a Coogler and co. decision made in a very emotional state with an undercurrent of greed because Disney wants that BP money ASAP. As long as there’s a black person in that suit by the end of the sequel they’ll be happy given the circumstances.