T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[KingNomarch]

If a writer really wants to get into Wakandan politics without rehashing some of the stuff we've seen before or without making Wakandans pro western culture , then they should model it after the Mali Empire and introduce Wakanda's version of the 12 Doors of Mali and the Gbara.

[chief12d]

I mean, this would be a good way to end the democracy in Wakanda if they wanted to go this route.

I STRONGLY doubt that after classifying T’Challa’s worldview as that of a dictator they’re gonna have Wakanda revert back to a theocratic-monarchy. Marvel’s not gonna fully endorse T’Challa’s beliefs. What’s far more likely is that T’Challa shows that kings still have a lot of value in Wakandan society despite the Parliament.

He and the new legislature can finally start seeing eye to eye and future writers will be free to ignore the Parliament like most writers ignored the Tribal Council. I mean the only time T’Challa’s role as king really means anything is when he makes foreign policy decisions and controls the military. That’s never gonna change no matter how Western they try to make Wakanda, it’s too baked into the storytelling DNA of the character.

So I could definitely see Wakanda remaining a democracy (in name only) for the foreseeable future. All it does is undermine the core themes of the mythos, it doesn’t fundamentally evolve how BP stories are told. Then again, I don’t think many people who actually read BP would care about the democracy being destroyed.

[MindofShadow]

Then again, I don’t think many people who actually read BP would care about the democracy being destroyed.

Only unfans bring it up lol. "Wakanda should be progressive!" (prolly about 80% of these people are X fans and don't say a thing aout Krakoa lol)

I'm just pretty much sick of so many "fans" wanting to make Wakanda and T'challa... boring AF to be honest. Keep it weird, keep it different.

TBF, I am just sick of Wakanda as a whole and have been for a handful of years now. Which is why it was refreshing to see Ridley T'challa basically go, "LOL this is f'ing stupid" and just getup and leave and go do King/Hero stuff.


If they have an issue where someone is invading and parliament chick goes " TCHALLA WE NEED YOU!" and he just goes, "why don't you go vote on it? Go find Chang" and goes back to playing Monster Hunter World, I woudln't hate it lol

[dkrook]

Mutants and other powered beings would be great. And I think it would be great to have an inhuman Wakandan stationed in Utolan (if it’s still around for that matter). But sadly Marvel is done with the Inhumans for the foreseeable future. Hell I’m not even sure they survived the Death of the Inhumans event.

Perhaps, but we should never limit the possibility of where superhuman Wakandan agents can come from. How about the science team work on there own creating tech to upgrade there own soldiers. That can be through cybernetics, biotechnology, and magic. That the great thing about having creativity, damn there's a part of me that really wanted to have Hickman on this book just seeing the world building on Avengers and X-Men. I know he could come up with some wild ideas about advanced soldiers. I like i have been reading sooo much grounded, depressing stuff from BP books that I just want to be amazed when a put an issue down.

[MindofShadow]

My only problem with introducing so many powered Wakandans is that you end up with a situation where BP seems... boring. Which under the wrong writer, would be really easy to do.

I mean, look at the "only minorities help BP" in the last book arc... I can't even remember what T'challa was doing when he was next to Adam, Monica, Storm, and other powerhouses. Probably "delegating"

Personally, I think Wakanda should be "unconquerable" because Wakandan's themselves are all mildly (very mild) enhanced natural born warriors who have a technological edge from a super metal who will figh tot he last man and woudl rather die than surrender an inch. And they are lead by a Black Panther who is the best of the best among them in a bloodline line of best of the best.

This all goes back to worrying too much about Wakanda instead of worrying about Black Panther.

[Marvell2100]

I STRONGLY doubt that after classifying T’Challa’s worldview as that of a dictator they’re gonna have Wakanda revert back to a theocratic-monarchy. Marvel’s not gonna fully endorse T’Challa’s beliefs. What’s far more likely is that T’Challa shows that kings still have a lot of value in Wakandan society despite the Parliament.

He and the new legislature can finally start seeing eye to eye and future writers will be free to ignore the Parliament like most writers ignored the Tribal Council. I mean the only time T’Challa’s role as king really means anything is when he makes foreign policy decisions and controls the military. That’s never gonna change no matter how Western they try to make Wakanda, it’s too baked into the storytelling DNA of the character.

So I could definitely see Wakanda remaining a democracy (in name only) for the foreseeable future. All it does is undermine the core themes of the mythos, it doesn’t fundamentally evolve how BP stories are told. Then again, I don’t think many people who actually read BP would care about the democracy being destroyed.

There are certain things you can do to shake up the status quo but if you change Wakanda from a monarchy to a democracy, then you've fundamentally change the entire mythology.

That's like changing Captain America and making Him Captain North America. The notion that people have problems with monarchies is really weird given the success of Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, King Arthur, etc.

People want escapism whether it's in a galaxy far, far away or in world 1000s of years in the past. They don't really care if it' a king or president who's in charge.

[Marvell2100]

Perhaps, but we should never limit the possibility of where superhuman Wakandan agents can come from. How about the science team work on there own creating tech to upgrade there own soldiers. That can be through cybernetics, biotechnology, and magic. That the great thing about having creativity, damn there's a part of me that really wanted to have Hickman on this book just seeing the world building on Avengers and X-Men. I know he could come up with some wild ideas about advanced soldiers. I like i have been reading sooo much grounded, depressing stuff from BP books that I just want to be amazed when a put an issue down.

Ridley can give us some of that with the Wakandan spies and the assassins who are trying to kill them. There should be no conventional isht in this kind of story given the advance tech that Wakanda uses.

[Odd Rödney]

I'm wondering if they might take the next film in the direction of the Galactic Empire of Wakanda.

[Marvell2100]

My only problem with introducing so many powered Wakandans is that you end up with a situation where BP seems... boring. Which under the wrong writer, would be really easy to do.

I mean, look at the "only minorities help BP" in the last book arc... I can't even remember what T'challa was doing when he was next to Adam, Monica, Storm, and other powerhouses. Probably "delegating"

Personally, I think Wakanda should be "unconquerable" because Wakandan's themselves are all mildly (very mild) enhanced natural born warriors who have a technological edge from a super metal who will figh tot he last man and woudl rather die than surrender an inch. And they are lead by a Black Panther who is the best of the best among them in a bloodline line of best of the best.

This all goes back to worrying too much about Wakanda instead of worrying about Black Panther.

I agree. I don't want a solo BP book turned into World of Wakanda. Do a spin-off book for that stuff.

[Marvell2100]

I'm wondering if they might take the next film in the direction of the Galactic Empire of Wakanda.

That's something that would probably come much later if they were to do something like that.

Ironically, the What If...? show could potentially set it up since we already have Star-Challa living in space. Shouldn't be to hard to set it up as being an alternate timeline.

[Ezyo1000]

My only problem with introducing so many powered Wakandans is that you end up with a situation where BP seems... boring. Which under the wrong writer, would be really easy to do.

I mean, look at the "only minorities help BP" in the last book arc... I can't even remember what T'challa was doing when he was next to Adam, Monica, Storm, and other powerhouses. Probably "delegating"

Personally, I think Wakanda should be "unconquerable" because Wakandan's themselves are all mildly (very mild) enhanced natural born warriors who have a technological edge from a super metal who will figh tot he last man and woudl rather die than surrender an inch. And they are lead by a Black Panther who is the best of the best among them in a bloodline line of best of the best.

This all goes back to worrying too much about Wakanda instead of worrying about Black Panther.

See I have no problem with Wakanda having a "Future soldier" program where they tap onto some cybernetics, however it would be minor thing's not augmentation necessarily but the average Wakandan soldier is extremely dangerous on their own. Basically a tier system could help keep this in check.

The reason Coates failed is because HE sucks at fiction. Put that same concept and story with Priest, Hudlin, RJ JA, Hickman, or Ewing. And you instantly have a 100% better story. The problem wasn't the cast or story. It was the writer. Ewing and JS currently have T'Challa on a team with Big hitters and he doesn't feel at all useless. The above names had T'Challa hanging with powerhouses and still getting clutch MVPs. Coates just turns everything he touches into the most boring story ever.

[chief12d]

Only unfans bring it up lol. "Wakanda should be progressive!" (prolly about 80% of these people are X fans and don't say a thing aout Krakoa lol)

I'm just pretty much sick of so many "fans" wanting to make Wakanda and T'challa... boring AF to be honest. Keep it weird, keep it different.

TBF, I am just sick of Wakanda as a whole and have been for a handful of years now. Which is why it was refreshing to see Ridley T'challa basically go, "LOL this is f'ing stupid" and just getup and leave and go do King/Hero stuff.


If they have an issue where someone is invading and parliament chick goes " TCHALLA WE NEED YOU!" and he just goes, "why don't you go vote on it? Go find Chang" and goes back to playing Monster Hunter World, I woudln't hate it lol

And the thing is Wakanda has been progressive since the beginning lol. It's just not a Western form of progressivism and certainly not the kind of progressivism espoused by certain folks on Twitter and Reddit. There were obviously issues (namely the Dora Milaje and some religious conflicts) but Wakanda has always been a bastion of progressive/far-left governance, it simply wasn't modelled or informed by the same things that are present in Europe and North America.

But that's not the image certain writers want to project and when a subset of your "fanbase" is the loudest in the room that kinda gets lost. So yea, seeing T'Challa call out the stupidity is nice even if there's a high chance he won't get exactly what he wants by the end of the story. And I could definitely see a scene in the future where T'Challa tells the Council to figure **** out themselves since they think they can manage every facet of Wakandan society without the figurehead that's been guiding their civilization for millennia lol.

My only problem with introducing so many powered Wakandans is that you end up with a situation where BP seems... boring. Which under the wrong writer, would be really easy to do.

I mean, look at the "only minorities help BP" in the last book arc... I can't even remember what T'challa was doing when he was next to Adam, Monica, Storm, and other powerhouses. Probably "delegating"

Personally, I think Wakanda should be "unconquerable" because Wakandan's themselves are all mildly (very mild) enhanced natural born warriors who have a technological edge from a super metal who will figh tot he last man and woudl rather die than surrender an inch. And they are lead by a Black Panther who is the best of the best among them in a bloodline line of best of the best.

This all goes back to worrying too much about Wakanda instead of worrying about Black Panther.

Once you start introducing Wakandan omega-level mutants, nuhumans, and super advanced cyborgs people are gonna start wondering why we're focusing on the guy in the cat suit. It can work in a team dynamic like the Avengers because it's an ensemble and T'Challa gets pigeonholed into being the "strategist" and statesman. It doesn't work if his supporting cast has too many superpowered types or if stories play into the fact such beings exist in Wakanda to any meaningful extent. It's no different than Batman, it's rare to see legitimately superpowered types up and about in Gotham and when they do pop up its temporary before they get exiled to places where they can be ignored (like Duke in the Outsiders).

And besides, Wakanda is the most powerful, ancient, and "advanced" society on Earth because they represent the highest potential of human excellence. That gets diminished when they start relying on the fake "next step of humanity" and alien-adjacent citizens to defend themselves. It's the same reason writers are smart enough to not have Wakandans summon their gods whenever they get invaded, it takes away from the quintessentially human element that makes them so fantastically impressive.

A low-level mutant or mutate is fine as part of some special operation but outside that, I have zero interest in seeing those characters play a prominent role. Like if we see Wakandan nuhumans infiltrate Attilan that'd be dope, but I want those kinds of characters firmly on the periphery, they don't need to take up space from side characters like Shuri and Okoye. Same goes for mutants and even vibranium mutates.

[chief12d]

There are certain things you can do to shake up the status quo but if you change Wakanda from a monarchy to a democracy, then you've fundamentally change the entire mythology.

That's like changing Captain America and making Him Captain North America. The notion that people have problems with monarchies is really weird given the success of Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, King Arthur, etc.

People want escapism whether it's in a galaxy far, far away or in world 1000s of years in the past. They don't really care if it' a king or president who's in charge.

T'Challa's role as king is only really relevant when he does his politicking with rival nations or is leading forces in the field. Even under garbage ass Coates who introduced the concept we see that this remains the case after the democracy is established.

I'm not saying I like it but in terms of actual stories the only thing hurt by the Parliament is the non-Western framing of Wakanda as a culture. It doesn't change the storytelling mechanisms used to move the plot along. T'Challa can still call on his soldiers to fight alongside him at a moment's notice and we've seen him making a bunch of foreign policy-related moves in Avengers and other books. He can leave Wakanda when he damn well pleases and since Wakanda presumably has a separation between church and state I doubt the new government is infringing on T'Challa's spiritual duties as BP.

Even if the Parliament is somehow involved in these things offscreen (and we've gotten zero indication that they are), they're wholly irrelevant to the actual story beats fans care about. Unless a writer like Ridley wants to explicitly reference them I think it'll get treated like the Tribal Council was. Present and doing stuff in the background but not relevant to the actual things that people care about in a BP story. The democracy should have been ignored and forgotten with Coates' run but if it's not, it doesn't alter how BP stories usually work as far as we've seen.

[Marvell2100]

T'Challa's role as king is only really relevant when he does his politicking with rival nations or is leading forces in the field. Even under garbage ass Coates who introduced the concept we see that this remains the case after the democracy is established.

I'm not saying I like it but in terms of actual stories the only thing hurt by the Parliament is the non-Western framing of Wakanda as a culture. It doesn't change the storytelling mechanisms used to move the plot along. T'Challa can still call on his soldiers to fight alongside him at a moment's notice and we've seen him making a bunch of foreign policy-related moves in Avengers and other books. He can leave Wakanda when he damn well pleases and since Wakanda presumably has a separation between church and state I doubt the new government is infringing on T'Challa's spiritual duties as BP.

Even if the Parliament is somehow involved in these things offscreen (and we've gotten zero indication that they are), they're wholly irrelevant to the actual story beats fans care about. Unless a writer like Ridley wants to explicitly reference them I think it'll get treated like the Tribal Council was. Present and doing stuff in the background but not relevant to the actual things that people care about in a BP story. The democracy should have been ignored and forgotten with Coates' run but if it's not, it doesn't alter how BP stories usually work as far as we've seen.

But it's more relevant outside of the comics to the fanbase. A lot of fans have referred to T'Challa as "my king" because it's pretty much a unique concept in mainstream comics.

How much of a storyline should the democratic govt of Wakanda become? And if it isn't going to be an import part going forward, why make the change to begin with? Does the govt have any authority or control over T'Challa and what he does? Or is BP like Captain America, not loyal to the govt but the idea? How did the tribes fall in line?

A lot of these questions won't get answered and really don't matter which is why it's an issue of why do this to begin with?

[MindofShadow]

And besides, Wakanda is the most powerful, ancient, and "advanced" society on Earth because they represent the highest potential of human excellence. That gets diminished when they start relying on the fake "next step of humanity" and alien-adjacent citizens to defend themselves..

Agreed.

Wakandans are simply better than you. Period. And they know it and it makes them xenophobic dicks lol.