T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Ezyo1000]

I agree that Feige could just be talking out his ass with that comment. Saying that the sequel was always going to be a glorified ensemble is much easier than saying Boseman's death wrecks their plans and they're terrified at the changes that have to be made.

Still, I think going off the first film, people in this thread saw the film differently than general audiences, who I think are much more inclined to see it as a vehicle for Wakanda as a whole than T'Challa. Sure Black Panther is the title, gets the most screen time, and has the strongest arc, but a lot of space was given to the side characters and worldbuilding. This is pretty rare in solo superhero films, where supporting casts tend to be weak and limited to 1-2 decent side characters. As I've said multiple times, the specialization given to the supporting cast of 4+ and their generally more vibrant personalities was a huge focal point of the marketing and response to the film.

Their influence on the plot/world is also pretty major, such as Shuri upgrading T'Challa and Wakanda or Nakia being the emotional core that steals T'Challa's best idea from the comics, opening Wakanda. It's a setup not too different from Star Wars where Luke is the obvious lead, but a lot of characterization and emphasis is put on the larger world. That doesn't mean it's not technically a solo film, but it does at times feel as though the world of Wakanda is pushed to the forefront. I definitely think that's what has convinced many people that the world of Wakanda is bigger than T'Challa and that he isn't necessary to continue the franchise. As far as they're concerned, there are enough competent, interesting side characters to "carry on the legacy".

Difference with star wars is that Luke, Leia, Han, and to a lesser extent, chewy were the stars and main characters. That was an ensemble. We saw Leia doing her own deal to start the movie then we are introduced to Luke then Han. In ESB like gets knocked tf out and we see han save him, when they leave hoth they go separate ways but they are working on their own goals.

Everything in BP revolves around T'Challa. T'Challa retrieves Nakia from her mission. T'Challa goes after klaw, T'Challa brings Ross to Wakanda, T'Challa talks and convinces M'Baku to help his cause, and T'Challa is driving the confrontation with Erik. The difference is that his supporting cast also do more than stand in the background, but not enough to call them an ensemble like in the x men movies were the team dog piles magneto and injects him with the x gene cure.

It's very clear who the movie revolves around, and it also shows in IW and EG. People weren't cheering Because they saw Okoye. IW trailers used T'Challas chant to hype the movie. The BP trailers didn't get extended screen time to the support Cast..

Again see blade. At the time one of the most successful superhero movies during the time and he was the main focus as well as his name on the title, snipes is also still alive and they 100% sidelined him in Trinity.

It doesn't matter if T'Challa had more screen time, the same results would of happened UNLESS Chadwick before passing said "RECAST ME OF I PASS" which I feel like it's obvious he would want that based on his Interviews and what he has said about characters or roles he has played

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I'll say this..

If you watched the Black Panther premiere. Feige was glowing about the movie and said how it was the women who steal the movie. So I could see Feige falling in love with the world of Wakanda.

Edit: Here it is

[Agent Z]

Where are their billion dollar movies at?

The shows are nice but Marvel did not hand them a movie. No one fought Ike to get a Falcon nor War Machine movie. People fought for T-Challa and even Miles Morales.

The issue is when ever a black male gets built up in something-fake woke culture is right there to help tear it down in the name of sista hood.

It's not lets support Nubia & Shuri who have books and novels. Nor Naomi or Riri or Moon Girl.

We get so concerned about black girl magic-we forget our black boys who are not dumb jocks or rappers.

Yeah they want Shuri in that suit and when that movie flops-EVERY black man on the planet will be blamed. Because that is what fake woke does.

It's the opposite actually - we've had more male black leads than female ones. Even from Marvel and DC.

[MindofShadow]

This character is dead in the water. Sooner y'all realize that, the happier you will be.

Nobody in charge cares about you. Not Iger, not Feige, not Coogler.

All that stuff about "black boys seeing a king" was just promotional stuff. It was lip service to get the black community to go hard for the movie. That is all it ever was.

When the movie gets close, they will do the same thing again. This time they will probably push a "black queen" angle WITH a healthy dose of "do it for Chadwick!" type of chants.

It is all entertainment to make money. You can fall for it again or not. Even if you do want to watch BP2, at least do it purely for entertainment. Don't do it because you think anyone making money off of it care about you or anyone that looks like you.

[Ekie]

I'll say this..

If you watched the Black Panther premiere. Feige was glowing about the movie and said how it was the women who steal the movie. So I could see Feige falling in love with the world of Wakanda.

.
Edit: Here it is

Alot of casual fans came away with that idea (hence my complaints) and going by Feigie's most recent comments, he is merely a casual fan who thinks the comics focused more on wakanda than Tchalla. Which is why he didnt skip a beat in production after losing the titular character.
Had this been a character Feigie actually knew and cared about (one of his white iconic ones) im sure his comments and choices would be much different on the handling of this situation.

But...movie is still "all black" so we can call it good, make some money, and pretend we are honoring Chad by making him a footnote in his own solo franchise.

When you believe (especially as a white man) that the only selling point of this movie was that it was "all black" then the story really doesnt matter much. Wont get my support.

[chief12d]

This character is dead in the water. Sooner y'all realize that, the happier you will be.

Pretty much. This next comic run is probably the last one that'll prominently feature T'Challa pre-MCU synergy and I'm pretty sure editorial will find a way to **** that up too. Let's see how Marvel handles Blade because looking at everything's that happened last year the age of T'Challa is dead. Unless we get some non-MCU project that features T'Challa as a lead, I expect him to slither back into relative obscurity like so many "fans" seem to want.

[Dboi654]

Alot of casual fans came away with that idea (hence my complaints) and going by Feigie's most recent comments, he is merely a casual fan who thinks the comics focused more on wakanda than Tchalla. Which is why he didnt skip a beat in production after losing the titular character.
Had this been a character Feigie actually knew and cared about (one of his white iconic ones) im sure his comments and choices would be much different on the handling of this situation.

But...movie is still "all black" so we can call it good, make some money, and pretend we are honoring Chad by making him a footnote in his own solo franchise.

When you believe (especially as a white man) that the only selling point of this movie was that it was "all black" then the story really doesnt matter much. Wont get my support.

They will just replicate the marketing strategy from the first one and people will still eat it up.

What pisses me off is these people who have never read a BP book in their lives tell me what is best for the franchise going forward. GTFO

[Dboi654]

This character is dead in the water. Sooner y'all realize that, the happier you will be.

Nobody in charge cares about you. Not Iger, not Feige, not Coogler.

All that stuff about "black boys seeing a king" was just promotional stuff. It was lip service to get the black community to go hard for the movie. That is all it ever was.

When the movie gets close, they will do the same thing again. This time they will probably push a "black queen" angle WITH a healthy dose of "do it for Chadwick!" type of chants.

It is all entertainment to make money. You can fall for it again or not. Even if you do want to watch BP2, at least do it purely for entertainment. Don't do it because you think anyone making money off of it care about you or anyone that looks like you.

If the second movie turns out to be more successful than the first, then it will further validate the fact that T'Challa is not essential to this franchise.

Honestly, it's quite sad.

[Overhazard]

They will just replicate the marketing strategy from the first one and people will still eat it up.

What pisses me off is these people who have never read a BP book in their lives tell me what is best for the franchise going forward. GTFO

It's the aesthetics of Wakanda that people love. The casual fans, non comic readers, have a hard time seeing past the aesthetic of Wakanda. They can do without T'challa. They don't really like him as much as they loved Chadwick. Coates deconstructed him so much they'res almost nothing left. Another X-Men fan (maybe that's the problem, X-fans writing him) will come along and add a few more steps to the humiliation conga.

Edit: Though I imagine that people will want to see the film in order to honor Chadwick. Recasting is disrespectful but just making the movie anyway and claiming that Wakanda is bigger than Black Panther isn't, somehow.

[Devaishwarya]

Of the millions who watched the film several times and bought the dvds and such...how many were actual comic book readers and of that number, how many were actually staunch readers of the BP comic book leading up before the Movie was released?

[Ezyo1000]

Pretty much. This next comic run is probably the last one that'll prominently feature T'Challa pre-MCU synergy and I'm pretty sure editorial will find a way to **** that up too. Let's see how Marvel handles Blade because looking at everything's that happened last year the age of T'Challa is dead. Unless we get some non-MCU project that features T'Challa as a lead, I expect him to slither back into relative obscurity like so many "fans" seem to want.

Dude they already fucked blade 20 years ago, and fucked the biggest Black hero of all time.. I have no confidence they will "get it right" this time around with blade

[MindofShadow]

If the second movie turns out to be more successful than the first, then it will further validate the fact that T'Challa is not essential to this franchise.

Honestly, it's quite sad.

I don't even think the sequel with Chadwick would have made as much as the first. I think the first one was a lightning in a bottle similar to the first Avengers movie. BP was riding crazy hype coming off of billion dollar Civil War and came out right after super hyped Ragnorak and right before nutso hyped Infinity War.

I think just by natural lessening of hype factor for the MCU has a whole is going to bring down ticket sales overall. I am not one of those people who think that, "after end game, the MCU has nothing going for it" but there is no denying that it is unlikely the MCU buzz will be anywhere near as loud in 2022 as it was in 2018-2019. You had consistent momentum since 2008 to build that initial hype. I really doubt a couple year sof black widow, shang, and eternals will re-create it in 2 years.

Without Chadwick, it means the franchise has to be carried by... Lupita? She has the biggest name yet but that is a giant leap forward for her. and T'challa love interest without T'challa is ultra weird. So do you turn to anti-vax idiot Letitia? "not been in anything" Winston? "walking dead isn't popular anymore" Danai? Do you burst W'kabi out of jail? I would expect a A list villain actor for sure. They are probably blowing up Denzel's phone everyday.

[Devaishwarya]

Pretty much. This next comic run is probably the last one that'll prominently feature T'Challa pre-MCU synergy and I'm pretty sure editorial will find a way to **** that up too. Let's see how Marvel handles Blade because looking at everything's that happened last year the age of T'Challa is dead. Unless we get some non-MCU project that features T'Challa as a lead, I expect him to slither back into relative obscurity like so many "fans" seem to want.

It can be argued that Coates himself is the sole arbiter of said obscurity when he decided to follow up a genre defining film with...well...whatever he's written since the movie came out.

[chief12d]

It's the aesthetics of Wakanda that people love. The casual fans, non comic readers, have a hard time seeing past the aesthetic of Wakanda. They can do without T'challa. They don't really like him as much as they loved Chadwick. Coates deconstructed him so much they'res almost nothing left. Another X-Men fan (maybe that's the problem, X-fans writing him) will come along and add a few more steps to the humiliation conga.

Edit: Though I imagine that people will want to see the film in order to honor Chadwick. Recasting is disrespectful but just making the movie anyway and claiming that Wakanda is bigger than Black Panther isn't, somehow.

Yup, Wakanda is black excellence personified, you don't need T'Challa specifically as an entry point to sell that world. At least that's the rationale that Disney probably has (outside the fact Coogler and the cast might not have wanted a recast). As long as they can parade any ole black person in the BP habit they think audiences will support the film. Shuri, Killmonger, Okoye, Nakia, M'Baku, it truthfully doesn't matter because the marketing will be more or less the same.

We'll see if that theory holds water when the film drops. BP2 had such strong legs because of repeat viewings and strong support from black consumers. If the sequel does little more than give a nice send-off to T'Challa, people will only watch it once to respect Boseman and nothing more. The film would underperform and that'll be all the proof Disney needs to know the franchise needs T'Challa at the helm. If the film meets their expectations (in a post-COVID economy no less) then yea, T'Challa is entirely nonessential to the world of Wakanda in the eyes of general audiences. And those who were saying this is an ensemble franchise were right from the start.

Dude they already fucked blade 20 years ago, and fucked the biggest Black hero of all time.. I have no confidence they will "get it right" this time around with blade

Nope, and I'm sure they'll have his daughter waiting in the wings too lol. But if they make the movie R-rated that does give me a bit of hope.

[chief12d]

It can be argued that Coates himself is the sole arbiter of said obscurity when he decided to follow up a genre defining film with...well...whatever he's written since the movie came out.

Coates definitely helped. How in the name of all that is holy is your book selling in the mid 20,000s in the same year that the character made a billion dollars at the box office? Grade A incompetence that was fostered by an equally lazy and incompetent editorial who will likely double down now that T'Challa won't have the MCU to back up his relevance anymore.