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  1. #7321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    Hickman's run ended by reverting time to the beginning of where the run started. BP's character was already up there. MCU movie was already on the way. Outside of some cool feats and BAMF moments, it didn't add much to T'Challa's characters aside from making him look like a bad king.

    If T'Challa saw the incursions he should do what was in his character and alert all his allies and the MCU community. The Illuminati's entire thought process and approach was flawed, which is why I appreciated that they got T'Challa's character right the first time around. BP isn't Stark he doesn't do carelessly foolish things despite being a genius.

    T'Challa should have ended Namor the moment he arrived in Wakanda then dealt with the incursions. My BP does not tolerate foolishness.
    The entire thing was half assed and plot driven.

    Every single 'genius' acted stupid for the sake of the plot.

    Writers seem to want the intrigue of a conspiracy without doing the leg work to make it work.

  2. #7322
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    New Avengers T’Challa had the air of a heavy hitter but often fell short when it really mattered. If he had been allowed to kill Namor at the end I think most of my problems with the run would’ve been solved because by and large I liked what Hickman did. I don’t care that much about Wakanda or Shuri dying because it was obvious they’d come back after Secret Wars with everything else. And T’Challa having trepidation about slaughtering entire planets was logical and a great examination of his king vs hero theme.

    The run is also responsible for elevating T’Challa into the B-list and was the first major depiction of BP that really embraced many aspects of BP lore for comic readers who weren’t already reading his solos. For lots of fans Hickman was their first introduction to T’Challa as something more than a minor player and overall I think the character was given a strong voice and decent feats they’d appreciate. He was at the center of the MU in a way we haven’t really seen since.

    Unlike with Coates even though there was lots of deconstruction and T’Challa getting beat up, it actually sold well and had acclaim from the majority of fans while at least giving him some wins here and there. If Hickman wants to work with the Illuminati again I’m fine with T’Challa on it as long as it doesn’t derail the actual BP book and T’Challa is allowed to get his punches in before the X-Men inevitably defeat the rest of the MU. He’s proven he understands the character/lore and wants to position T’Challa as one of the pillars of the MU.
    I understand why some people don't like it but I generally agree with this.

    and yes... Namor should have died. 100%. I would die on that hill lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    The Illuminati went sideways when it treated freakin' Namor as a vital and equally competent member
    to an extent sure

    But he's also been one of hte few level headed members at time (like not wanting ot send the hulk off).

    He is also king of 70% of the earth... kinda makes him important.

    And without him, there would be no comics thanks to him being willing to pull the trigger lol

    If T'Challa saw the incursions he should do what was in his character and alert all his allies and the MCU community.
    This was explained in story why he didn't.

    I'll allow criticism that Shuri should have been told (but she wasn't because no on cares about Shuri lol) but it was explained why he didn't tell the rest of the heroes.

    They would have done what Cap did. Which was stop them from considering blowing up planets. Because the illuminati all thought there were bad asses and logical and could "do what needed to be done" until it actually came to the point it was needed. That was the whole point of the story.

    Only Namor's arrogant ass could do it and even then... he couldn't do it forever. He ate at him because he wasn't evil like Thanos and the Black Order.
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 06-10-2021 at 08:19 AM.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  3. #7323
    Astonishing Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I understand why some people don't like it but I generally agree with this.

    and yes... Namor should have died. 100%. I would die on that hill lol.



    to an extent sure

    But he's also been one of hte few level headed members at time (like not wanting ot send the hulk off).

    He is also king of 70% of the earth... kinda makes him important.

    And without him, there would be no comics thanks to him being willing to pull the trigger lol



    This was explained in story why he didn't.

    I'll allow criticism that Shuri should have been told (but she wasn't because no on cares about Shuri lol) but it was explained why he didn't tell the rest of the heroes.

    They would have done what Cap did. Which was stop them from considering blowing up planets. Because the illuminati all thought there were bad asses and logical and could "do what needed to be done" until it actually came to the point it was needed. That was the whole point of the story.

    Only Namor's arrogant ass could do it and even then... he couldn't do it forever. He ate at him because he wasn't evil like Thanos and the Black Order.
    Yea. Everyone thinks that it is the wise choice to alert the rest of the Marvel Universe but doing so would have caused mass chaos. Imagine all of the semi intelligent villains and heroes on Earth trying to solve the problem themselves. Or just normal civilians reaction to knowing their world is gonna die at any time. Random organizations and ppl Putting things together that they think will work or trying to stop the super intelligent people from doing whatever they think needs to be done which ended up being blowing up planets LOL it would have been chaos. This was the type of situation that should have been handled on a need-to-know basis. We can argue that more people needed to know for sure (I cant think of any) but definitely not everybody. They clearly shouldn't even have invited Captain America into the conversation.

    We saw what Doom did once he found out.
    They had the brightest Minds working on it there was really no need for anyone else
    Last edited by Ekie; 06-10-2021 at 08:35 AM.

  4. #7324
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    It was contrived and dumb just like Doomwar. T'Challa made the same mistake T'Chaka did in the BP movie. He's better than that. The Illuminati ultimately failed, even with Namor's actions. Doom saved reality (sort of). The entire story was just a vehicle to set up a big Reed Richards and Doctor Doom face off and T'Challa was along for the ride.

    They might not have done what Cap did. Just write a better story. The run took a core tenant of BP's character, a pearl of wisdom he had learned over time through his reign and king and dealing with the Avengers and straight-up ignored it so we could get this drama-filled Game of Thrones story arc.

    From Stan Lee & Jack Kirby to Don McGregor to Kurt Busiek to Christopher Priest to Reggie Hudlin, to the theatrical movie. T'Challa's character was written and has evolved a certain way. If he's written in a way that contradicts the core of his character I'm gonna call it out regardless if he gets cool moments along the way. The standard is high because the character deserves it.
    The J-man

  5. #7325
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Maybe they are just asking, "hey guys, has anyone seen Black Bolt?"

    Panther needs help murdering someone again. Woulda been pretty useful against KillmongerSymbiote who is, ya know, weak to sound lol. Does BlackBOlt count as an minority?
    He will if/when Vin gets to play him in live action

    https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...humans-reboot/

  6. #7326
    Incredible Member Vanguard's Avatar
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    I don’t like he idea of TChalla needing help to kill someone. Makes him seem weaker to me. If he gets help to make the plot more interesting in some way, I guess, otherwise, people already underestimate him enough.

  7. #7327
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    I don’t like he idea of TChalla needing help to kill someone. Makes him seem weaker to me. If he gets help to make the plot more interesting in some way, I guess, otherwise, people already underestimate him enough.
    Counterpoint to this particular example:

    Wakanda was obliterated. T'challa was on the run with a small group of people more focused on stopping/researching Incursions. He kept to himself that he was planning on murdering Namor.

    He didn't have access to his usual resources in order to concoct a way to kill someone who, on the surface, is way stronger and way more durable than T'challa is.

    Not like before Wakanda was obliterated, he went, "let me go grab my anti-Namor dust real quick guys" lol

    enter the murder agreement with Black Bolt lol.

    Only thing out of character was delaying pressing the planet blow up bottom to Namor would wake up.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  8. #7328
    Incredible Member Vanguard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Counterpoint to this particular example:

    Wakanda was obliterated. T'challa was on the run with a small group of people more focused on stopping/researching Incursions. He kept to himself that he was planning on murdering Namor.

    He didn't have access to his usual resources in order to concoct a way to kill someone who, on the surface, is way stronger and way more durable than T'challa is.

    Not like before Wakanda was obliterated, he went, "let me go grab my anti-Namor dust real quick guys" lol

    enter the murder agreement with Black Bolt lol.

    Only thing out of character was delaying pressing the planet blow up bottom to Namor would wake up.
    Ok. Didn’t have access to his usual resources, I get it. Only reason I was confused is because he’s fought him fairly well in the past.

  9. #7329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    I don’t like he idea of TChalla needing help to kill someone. Makes him seem weaker to me. If he gets help to make the plot more interesting in some way, I guess, otherwise, people already underestimate him enough.
    I guess it depends on the power level of the enemy

  10. #7330
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    Ok. Didn’t have access to his usual resources, I get it. Only reason I was confused is because he’s fought him fairly well in the past.
    Namor vs T'challa where T'challa gets 10 mins of prep time in Wakanda is an L for namor 10/10. BP's have been putting Namor on his ass for 100 years now lol.

    IF I were the re-write that scene, I would have changed it. That stupid dagger would have had some mystical properties to it (if it was really as important as Hickman wanted it to be) that would have evened the playing field with Namor. And then BP would have beat his ass and killed him.

    But, in the context of the scene, i'm cool with him using BB. I'm not cool with him delaying blowing up the planet to kill them all. That was just plot induced stupidity. It screamed that editorial wouldn't allow BP to get his moment there for some reason. Especially considering SW was bringing everyone back alive anyway. I don't get it.
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 06-10-2021 at 10:25 AM.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  11. #7331
    Be seeing you… DigiCom's Avatar
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    The only Illuminati I care about:


  12. #7332
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    I don’t like he idea of TChalla needing help to kill someone. Makes him seem weaker to me. If he gets help to make the plot more interesting in some way, I guess, otherwise, people already underestimate him enough.
    One good thing that came out of it was that T'CHalla and Black Bolt became friends somewhat. Reed is the only true friend that T'Challa has so glad to see that at least BP and BB are bros.

  13. #7333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    One good thing that came out of it was that T'CHalla and Black Bolt became friends somewhat. Reed is the only true friend that T'Challa has so glad to see that at least BP and BB are bros.
    Their bro name can be 'The Black Besties'

  14. #7334
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    Hickman's run ended by reverting time to the beginning of where the run started. BP's character was already up there. MCU movie was already on the way. Outside of some cool feats and BAMF moments, it didn't add much to T'Challa's characters aside from making him look like a bad king.

    Firstly, it was a contrived story, but I'll ignore that. If T'Challa saw the incursions he should do what was in his character and alert all his allies and the MCU community. The Illuminati's entire thought process and approach was flawed, which is why I appreciated that they got T'Challa's character right the first time around. BP isn't Stark he doesn't do carelessly foolish things despite being a genius.

    T'Challa should have ended Namor the moment he arrived in Wakanda then dealt with the incursions. My BP does not tolerate foolishness.
    I think it was fine,. BUT: T'Challa should of shown beating Black dwarf on panel (which would of allowed him to beat him in IW) he should of been allowed to make good on his promise and kill Namor (especially since Namor died by Doom, was brought back and killed off in a d list team book) and when he fought god Doom he should of been left standing but unable to fight (standing tall based on sheer will power) and Doom should of been bloodier. Oh and when Maximus was giving his King vs hero speech, T'Challa, like Black bolt, should of beaten the Batman analogue. Those are the 4 things that should of happened and I would of been good. Seriously black bolt for the most kill shots/ action of all

  15. #7335
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Namor vs T'challa where T'challa gets 10 mins of prep time in Wakanda is an L for namor 10/10. BP's have been putting Namor on his ass for 100 years now lol.

    IF I were the re-write that scene, I would have changed it. That stupid dagger would have had some mystical properties to it (if it was really as important as Hickman wanted it to be) that would have evened the playing field with Namor. And then BP would have beat his ass and killed him.

    But, in the context of the scene, i'm cool with him using BB. I'm not cool with him delaying blowing up the planet to kill them all. That was just plot induced stupidity. It screamed that editorial wouldn't allow BP to get his moment there for some reason. Especially considering SW was bringing everyone back alive anyway. I don't get it.
    Yeah, I would of made it short and sweet. He stabs him, Namor taunts him, then all of a sudden he is weak in the knees and feeling the effects, T'Challa stabs him again, for his sister, another for Wakanda, and then walks away as BB blows him off the platform. Namor is still alive when Thanos and Co find him, but he is dying due to the wounds received by T'Challa preventing him from being able to heal. Thanos and Co leave him and go to the next incursion point and Namor dies cursing T'Challas name.

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