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  1. #6451
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    I mean, on the comics landscape he kinda did though. BP is a bigger player in the comics now than he ever was prior. In terms of how much of the MU is actively influenced by wakanda stuff whereas before a lot of the time it was just kinda there, or tied to Avengers only stuff. Wakanda wasn't affecting stuff of galactic marvel before and now it is. The success of this comic played a large role in that. Obviously the movies have done a lot of it too but I dont think that claim is off the mark in any way.
    That was Civil War movie. Al Ewing started the Ultimates before Coates started. And Ewing is the only writer who references Coates work. If you didnt read BP you'd think everything was fine in Wakanda from seeing Tchalla around the rest of the MU. Take Krakoa. Nobody ignores that. That is example of changing the Marvel landscape for characters. Coates could just as easily be happening in another universe.

    And he was a bigger player during the Civil War to Secret Invasion years. Only reason there wasn't a solo was because Mayberry disenfranchised the fanbase and Mavel gave Liss a concept nobody asked for, leaving avoid of Tchalla only appearing in FF and Avengers books. But he was still in the center ofthe action.

    The only Coates will be remembered for is having a run with a lot of coll varient covers. Lol
    Last edited by Cville; 05-26-2021 at 02:04 PM.

  2. #6452
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Waiting til I get my variant cover in to read this. Not surprised by the reaction its getting here but im expecting a decent ending, hopefully a great one. Looking forward to the future of this character and seeing how this run ends.
    Just so you know (as for any one else following this thread) this reaction isn't based on some "wE hAtE cOaTeS nO mAtTeR wHaT iS iN tHe boOk!" This story from day one 5 years ago isn't good from strictly a storytelling standpoint, ignoring the fact that it's a BP book and just looking at what's on the pages form a fiction standpoint. The pacIng is bad, the Characters have zero depth/ conflicting motivations. On one season Characters change on a dime their entire beliefs based on nonsensical reasoning. Characters disappear and/or suddenly appear and are absolutely NEEDED to defeat the big bad with no reasoning or even for shadowing. We literally have all the Black heroes showing up to fight for Wakanda and T'Challa hasn't even interacted with 95% of them in this series or even at all publication history.

    That's why you see the reactions here. If there is one thing is BP fans are good at, it's giving credit where credit is due and to criticize BS. No BP writer is above criticism and no BP writer gets a pass to write garbage and have it worshiped.

    We give credit where credit is due, hell at the start of S3 alot of is gave Coates credit for the first few issues because T'Challa was actually DOING something and was more capable then he ever was prior. Then Coates fell back onto his usual beats and there is go.

  3. #6453
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Just so you know (as for any one else following this thread) this reaction isn't based on some "wE hAtE cOaTeS nO mAtTeR wHaT iS iN tHe boOk!" This story from day one 5 years ago isn't good from strictly a storytelling standpoint, ignoring the fact that it's a BP book and just looking at what's on the pages form a fiction standpoint. The pacIng is bad, the Characters have zero depth/ conflicting motivations. On one season Characters change on a dime their entire beliefs based on nonsensical reasoning. Characters disappear and/or suddenly appear and are absolutely NEEDED to defeat the big bad with no reasoning or even for shadowing. We literally have all the Black heroes showing up to fight for Wakanda and T'Challa hasn't even interacted with 95% of them in this series or even at all publication history.

    That's why you see the reactions here. If there is one thing is BP fans are good at, it's giving credit where credit is due and to criticize BS. No BP writer is above criticism and no BP writer gets a pass to write garbage and have it worshiped.

    We give credit where credit is due, hell at the start of S3 alot of is gave Coates credit for the first few issues because T'Challa was actually DOING something and was more capable then he ever was prior. Then Coates fell back onto his usual beats and there is go.
    I think I remember saying leave Tchalla without his memories. Because from the time he was working to get them back then got them back, Coates reverted to prozac Tchalla.

  4. #6454
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Ultimates happened during the era of coates run too. Thags what I'm talking about. BP even being on a tema like ultimates is a byproduct of his larger presence in the comics world now.

    Look at the Alex ross cover for the BP new run starting in fall. All of that happened under Coates run, arguably some of it is a direct result of his doing.

    Ewing is not just a continuity nerd, hes one of the biggest continuity nerds and his acknowledgement of it says all it needs to say.

    People who are expecting this run to be completely sweeped under the rug in the comic years are likely setting themselves up to be disappointed is all im going to say.
    ultimates came out first.

    So, if anything, give Hickman the credit then. Ultimates was piggy backing off of Hickman, not Coates.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  5. #6455
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    O am reading your GL strictly Because I know the treatment and respect you give to these characters. I am not at all a DC fan really, I have zero idea what goes on in the DCU, however, what your doing with GL is Amazing work.

    I don't get it, how much more do you have to prove your up to the task. You did the Panther quest for bast sake and got critical acclaim and overall positivity from fans. Sure your not a celebrity writer but cotdammit your a veteran comic writer. All this big flashy people we got over the last 5 years contributed nothing valuable to the run and simply used it as a means for their own bias and forced the Character to behave OOC to make their stories work.

    Simply put. You deserve your shot just as much as anyone else. Especially given what you have done already (King in Black is still the best oneshot I have ever read and the best thing to come out of this Coates era nightmare out of the solo)
    Mr Coates beat us all with his Pulitzer. That's part of what major awards are for. I do find it disheartening that someone like David Walker was passed over in favor of an untried celebrity. Leaving me out of the equation, we didn't get David Walker's Panther so Mr. Coates could learn as he went? That's bad business.

    By contrast, Mr Ridley certainly has an Oscar to smack people with but, more important, he's been in and out of comics at least as long as me. He's a perfect storm from a corporate comics POV. he's good, the right color, he's acclaimed and he knows comics.

    So, at the very least, you're going to get a well-written run.

    Depending on what he does with the title, the longer it takes for them to "let me get my hands on the book," the less and less likely my pitch for Panther would be allowed to go.

    All i'm noodling right now is whether or not to tell it in the same way Kirkman did with INVINCIBLE or Busiek with the Samaritan.

    If I decide NOT to do the indie version, I'll do a MY TAKE post on my blog the way I did with IRON FIST.

    Always remember, whether you like the creators or not, whatever you're seeing in ANY Big Two comic is precisely and only what the company WANTS.
    Last edited by Redjack; 05-26-2021 at 02:20 PM.

  6. #6456
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    @Digi
    Glad my gif is gaining more power by the day lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    I mean, on the comics landscape he kinda did though. BP is a bigger player in the comics now than he ever was prior. In terms of how much of the MU is actively influenced by wakanda stuff whereas before a lot of the time it was just kinda there, or tied to Avengers only stuff. Wakanda wasn't affecting stuff of galactic marvel before and now it is. The success of this comic played a large role in that. Obviously the movies have done a lot of it too but I dont think that claim is off the mark in any way.
    No... He didn't. That was Hickman making T'Challa a main Character in one of the biggest Marvel events on recent history. That's what put T'Challa in the lime light on the comics side.

    Coates didn't even have T'Challa interacting with the greater MU at all, that was other writers, yet now we gonna act like that was Coates doing??? Really???

    This is what we have been saying. Coates Seems to just suck up all credit and praise for things he didn't do. It's crazy. He gets credit for stelfreeze aesthetics and force push, gets credit for Narcisse Rise story, and apparently now is getting praise for raising T'Challas profile in the comics when they start before he was even penning the solo

  7. #6457
    Be seeing you… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    @Digi
    Glad my gif is gaining more power by the day lol


    This is what we have been saying. Coates Seems to just suck up all credit and praise for things he didn't do. It's crazy. He gets credit for stelfreeze aesthetics and force push, gets credit for Narcisse Rise story, and apparently now is getting praise for raising T'Challas profile in the comics when they start before he was even penning the solo
    You think that's bad? Look at who wrote that interview!

  8. #6458
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    You think that's bad? Look at who wrote that interview!
    So it's a social nepotism article?. Lol

  9. #6459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Ultimates happened during the era of coates run too. Thags what I'm talking about. BP even being on a tema like ultimates is a byproduct of his larger presence in the comics world now.

    People who are expecting this run to be completely sweeped under the rug in the comic years are likely setting themselves up to be disappointed is all im going to say.
    Then get ready to see 13K sales.

    Then get ready for a final issue with a ton of variants -stores chose NOT to order as I learned today.

    Hickman had Panther doing stuff in Secret Wars.

    Priest still holds the longest Panther run.

    Hudlin got trades on the shelf and worked on the first Panther cartoon.

    Black Panther the movie was in the works in 2014 after the first script try was in 2011.

    Cap America Civil War came out before Coates.

    All Coates added was 50 issues.

    In that interview-Coates gave CREDIT to everyone that came before him. Heck he probably did more for Thunderball and Prodigy than Panther.


    A Alex Ross variant with Coates cast means NOTHING. I can show you Batman variant covers with Duke Thomas-who has done NOTHING. I can show you Archie covers with folks who never appear in the BOOK.


    This is what we have been saying. Coates Seems to just suck up all credit and praise for things he didn't do.
    Because you are dealing with a narrative that want to claim black excellence where it has not happened. Because other deserving black excellence keeps being ignored or comes from the pen of a nonblack writer.

    Folks want to forget Miles, Riri & Naomi have a white Daddy. As does Moon Girl.

  10. #6460
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    T’Challa being more relevant now has zero to do with Coates, that’s all the Russo Brothers, Chadwick Boseman, and Ryan Coogler led by Kevin Feige. With Hickman doing by far the most to raise the character’s profile in the 2010’s and setting the stage for his his continued prominence in the comics. I’d go as far as saying that it was Hickman who took T’Challa from the C-list and made T’Challa the B-lister he is now. Priest and Hudlin took T’Challa from the D-list but if Hickman didn’t put T’Challa on New Avengers and feature him in his FF book (including Secret Wars) he’d be in far worse shape sales-wise, the man sparked a whole new generation of BP fans.

    Coates’ run has barely been referenced, none of his lore is transferring to other series, most of the story elements he introduced were put to bed in issue 25 or straight up ignored in other corners of the MU. How can T’Challa entering the cosmic space mean anything when none of the actual cosmic books cared enough to mention it lol?

    The role that T’Challa plays in the comics is entirely a result of the character being one of the most prominent characters in the MCU, you could’ve put a relative nobody on the title who did an even worse job than Coates and nothing changes. He’d still be leading the Avengers and he’d still be getting a shitton of spin-off books. He may very well have influence on future BP books, but in terms of actual influence on the wider MU Coates is a nonfactor. And even the former is unlikely given how we’re already seeing a substantial break in direction under Ridley.

    If you like that Coates went in a radically different direction than past runs and basically built up his own mythos from the ground up that’s fine. But acting like it was his run that brought the character to prominence in the comics is blatantly ahistorical and borderline disrespectful to the talent that came before him and who had to go through much more in order to raise the character’s profile, especially Mr. Boseman.
    Last edited by chief12d; 05-26-2021 at 02:55 PM.

  11. #6461
    Be seeing you… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    So it's a social nepotism article?. Lol
    And this is why I don't rate Rise as highly as some others. Narcisse can't even take credit for his OWN WRITING without glorifying TNC.

    As I said once upon a time... when people said they wanted a POC writer on BP, I don't think they meant "Pal Of Coates".

  12. #6462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    Ultimates happened during the era of coates run too. Thags what I'm talking about. BP even being on a tema like ultimates is a byproduct of his larger presence in the comics world now.

    Look at the Alex ross cover for the BP new run starting in fall. All of that happened under Coates run, arguably some of it is a direct result of his doing.

    Ewing is not just a continuity nerd, hes one of the biggest continuity nerds and his acknowledgement of it says all it needs to say.

    People who are expecting this run to be completely sweeped under the rug in the comic years are likely setting themselves up to be disappointed is all im going to say.
    Haaa haaaaa thanks I need a good laugh

  13. #6463
    Incredible Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    And this is why I don't rate Rise as highly as some others. Narcisse can't even take credit for his OWN WRITING without glorifying TNC.

    As I said once upon a time... when people said they wanted a POC writer on BP, I don't think they meant "Pal Of Coates".
    It's funny that in past articles, Narcisse gave Coates no credit for Rise but here he's singing a different tune.

  14. #6464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mr Coates beat us all with his Pulitzer. That's part of what major awards are for. I do find it disheartening that someone like David Walker was passed over in favor of an untried celebrity. Leaving me out of the equation, we didn't get David Walker's Panther so Mr. Coates could learn as he went? That's bad business.

    By contrast, Mr Ridley certainly has an Oscar to smack people with but, more important, he's been in and out of comics at least as long as me. He's a perfect storm from a corporate comics POV. he's good, the right color, he's acclaimed and he knows comics.

    So, at the very least, you're going to get a well-written run.

    Depending on what he does with the title, the longer it takes for them to "let me get my hands on the book," the less and less likely my pitch for Panther would be allowed to go.

    All i'm noodling right now is whether or not to tell it in the same way Kirkman did with INVINCIBLE or Busiek with the Samaritan.

    If I decide NOT to do the indie version, I'll do a MY TAKE post on my blog the way I did with IRON FIST.

    Always remember, whether you like the creators or not, whatever you're seeing in ANY Big Two comic is precisely and only what the company WANTS.
    Redjack aka Creator Sweet please tell the stories indie, don’t wait on marvel get your much deserved followers worldwide just like Kirkman did & boss that up into a tv show/anime/cartoon... Please life is short

  15. #6465
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Mr Coates beat us all with his Pulitzer. That's part of what major awards are for. I do find it disheartening that someone like David Walker was passed over in favor of an untried celebrity. Leaving me out of the equation, we didn't get David Walker's Panther so Mr. Coates could learn as he went? That's bad business.

    By contrast, Mr Ridley certainly has an Oscar to smack people with but, more important, he's been in and out of comics at least as long as me. He's a perfect storm from a corporate comics POV. he's good, the right color, he's acclaimed and he knows comics.

    So, at the very least, you're going to get a well-written run.

    Depending on what he does with the title, the longer it takes for them to "let me get my hands on the book," the less and less likely my pitch for Panther would be allowed to go.

    All i'm noodling right now is whether or not to tell it in the same way Kirkman did with INVINCIBLE or Busiek with the Samaritan.

    If I decide NOT to do the indie version, I'll do a MY TAKE post on my blog the way I did with IRON FIST.

    Always remember, whether you like the creators or not, whatever you're seeing in ANY Big Two comic is precisely and only what the company WANTS.
    This is the biggest head scratcher. You have T'Challa coming off the biggest event on recent marvel history. Bigger presence, leading at the time the most powerful team, huge waves on the MCU side with his debut in CW.

    And Comics division decides that the best story to tell is a depressing, racially stereotypical, sexist contrived and convoluted mess of a story that sidelined T'Challa, shat all over his Character and mythos, and had him not interact with the mu at all to the point that it could be an else world story and everyone ignores it entirely?

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