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  1. #6706
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    if I'm not mistaken thor was jobbed to make tchalla look badass, which I didn't like. that was one of my biggest complaints about the bp kib issue. yes tchalla should be badass but it shouldn't be by way pis or cis. How was tchalla able to rid all of wakanda of the dome shrouded by the symbiotic cocoon and not alert knull god, while all the other heroes are struggling? The wakandans have a weapon strong enough to defeat phoenix why the heck wasn't it used in avx or more recently in the battle for the mantle? tchalla as technologically advanced as they are i dont see how he could defeat thor a god who battles other gods and comsic beings on the regular. that's why I liked Coates tchalla as he utilized all aspects of her abilities including that of beung a tactician. I've always said a strong leader knows when to get stuff done on their own and when to delegate and I thought Coates balanced this beautifully.
    Why not just admit you haven't read the character much and that you enjoyed Coates?

    Why shit on a character you've barely read? I don't get it. Praise your dude without shitting on the mythos.

    For example.. Aaron's Thor. I liked Aaron's Thor. God butcher arc is one of the best ever. I liked most of Jane Thor, even though it dragged too long. Thor thread hates aarons run. They give good reasons why based on his past history. I don't go in there and go "yall are wrong, aaron thor best thor!" Because Id ont' know better, i haven't read old thor stories. Just enjoyed whwt I enjoyed, commented on that, and moved on. Why not do that?


    quest T'challa just stalled the thor fight with tech. Not like he killed thor.

    BP KIB... BP momentarily stopped the invasion. It is a tiny country, maybe Knull wasn't that interested and would have gotten around to it later with more forces. Who knows... it's comics. Geoffrey used the mythos to tell the story... it wasn't PIS or CIS. You aren't using those terms correctly.

    Maybe the phoenix thing was tested AFTER AvX? And the phoenix event, it wasn't attacking Wakanda then. THe better choice for Tchalla was just to win the tournament.

    How come you don't complain of PIS/CIS when storm gets random power ups here and there? Pray to beat Adversary? PRAISE! T'challa outsmart a god with tech to delay a fight in a cartoon? oh no, that can't happen! This stuf is so transparent man. Just praise what you praise instea do fputting other stuff down when you don't know anything
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  2. #6707
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post

    Nobody defeats death, but I know he deafeated a god and used the power to save the Ultimates.
    And he should have used that God to defeat the orishas or the empire in this arc.

    T'challa coming to an agreement with the Tiger God.. defeat the Orisha/close the portals and he releases him from the poke ball.

    All we can hope for is Ewing pulls it out of his ass in 4 years somewhere lol
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  3. #6708
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Depends on how it's used. Kodak was mostly disappointing and that was from the writer who created it. A new writer getting an upgrade he didn't, I don't see him do in nf much with it.


    Nobody defeats death, but I know he deafeated a god and used the power to save the Ultimates.

    If the empire angle were to be a center point. I'd want Greg Pak or Charles Soule to write it.
    that fight against the tiger God all happened off panel. how exactly did he do it?

    I think both those writers would do a good job.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Why not just admit you haven't read the character much and that you enjoyed Coates?

    Why shit on a character you've barely read? I don't get it. Praise your dude without shitting on the mythos.

    For example.. Aaron's Thor. I liked Aaron's Thor. God butcher arc is one of the best ever. I liked most of Jane Thor, even though it dragged too long. Thor thread hates aarons run. They give good reasons why based on his past history. I don't go in there and go "yall are wrong, aaron thor best thor!" Because Id ont' know better, i haven't read old thor stories. Just enjoyed whwt I enjoyed, commented on that, and moved on. Why not do that?


    quest T'challa just stalled the thor fight with tech. Not like he killed thor.

    BP KIB... BP momentarily stopped the invasion. It is a tiny country, maybe Knull wasn't that interested and would have gotten around to it later with more forces. Who knows... it's comics. Geoffrey used the mythos to tell the story... it wasn't PIS or CIS. You aren't using those terms correctly.

    Maybe the phoenix thing was tested AFTER AvX? And the phoenix event, it wasn't attacking Wakanda then. THe better choice for Tchalla was just to win the tournament.

    How come you don't complain of PIS/CIS when storm gets random power ups here and there? Pray to beat Adversary? PRAISE! T'challa outsmart a god with tech to delay a fight in a cartoon? oh no, that can't happen! This stuf is so transparent man. Just praise what you praise instea do fputting other stuff down when you don't know anything
    1. That question is irrelevant to everything I said.

    2. None of this answers any of the questions I've posed and asking these relevant points isn't sh!tting on tchalla or his mythos. and don't you find this hypocritical? are you shittin on the mythos when you complain incessantly about the current run or the recently ended run?

    3. the way thor lost was inexcusable and im certain most thor fans would agree. the execution was poorly done as it was shown, just as some of the other things I've seen the writer do. but its cool right because it shows tchalla being badass?

    4. when you have to add hypothetical points to make your argument you are essentially making the case for me why it wasn't executed well.


    Plot-Induced Stupidity, or PIS for short, is a term used to refer to events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot. Knull not knowing his shield had been partially destroyed would certainly fall under this definition

    5. See point above. When you have to include hypothetical points to make your case you've essentially making my point for me.

    6. None of that is relevant to the question I've have and you made am entire essay and still didn't answer my questions which demonstrates my position is valid.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  4. #6709
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Why not just admit you haven't read the character much and that you enjoyed Coates?

    Why shit on a character you've barely read? I don't get it. Praise your dude without shitting on the mythos.

    For example.. Aaron's Thor. I liked Aaron's Thor. God butcher arc is one of the best ever. I liked most of Jane Thor, even though it dragged too long. Thor thread hates aarons run. They give good reasons why based on his past history. I don't go in there and go "yall are wrong, aaron thor best thor!" Because Id ont' know better, i haven't read old thor stories. Just enjoyed whwt I enjoyed, commented on that, and moved on. Why not do that?


    quest T'challa just stalled the thor fight with tech. Not like he killed thor.

    BP KIB... BP momentarily stopped the invasion. It is a tiny country, maybe Knull wasn't that interested and would have gotten around to it later with more forces. Who knows... it's comics. Geoffrey used the mythos to tell the story... it wasn't PIS or CIS. You aren't using those terms correctly.

    Maybe the phoenix thing was tested AFTER AvX? And the phoenix event, it wasn't attacking Wakanda then. THe better choice for Tchalla was just to win the tournament.

    How come you don't complain of PIS/CIS when storm gets random power ups here and there? Pray to beat Adversary? PRAISE! T'challa outsmart a god with tech to delay a fight in a cartoon? oh no, that can't happen! This stuf is so transparent man. Just praise what you praise instea do fputting other stuff down when you don't know anything
    Co-sign on all of this. In the mean time they better hope that the X-offices “big plans” actually come to fruition this time around.
    T'Challa
    A.K.A. The Black Panther
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  5. #6710
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    How was tchalla able to rid all of wakanda of the dome shrouded by the symbiotic cocoon and not alert knull god, while all the other heroes are struggling?
    THat's something you should ask Editorial. They approved my story and chose not to use any of the stuff presented in it. I'm sure they have reasons. But the rest of the mini series, AFTER what happens in Wakanda, was not my concern. T'Challa didn't use anything that the other heroes didn't already know. He just used the rules effectively to save his people and his land, which are his primary concern at all times.

    He's the most dangerous human being on the planet for a reason. We showed that.

    The Wakandans have a weapon strong enough to defeat phoenix why the heck wasn't it used in avx or more recently in the battle for the mantle?
    The Wakandans began to build the Hand of Bast after their first encounter with the Phoenix force but it wasn't just sitting in a vault somewhere. This is a prototype that no one had ever used before. They think it can beat the Phoenix. Can it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    but it can definitely handle a Symbiote dragon. Which is why T'Challa told Okoye to bring it out. maybe it isn't ready to take on the Phoenix but it didn't need to. It just needed to take on the dragon long enough for T'Challa to get time to build the actual win. Which we know it did because we all saw it happen (also, who says there's only one? Panthers have four feet.).

    This entire story is about T'Challa-as-Tactician and WHY he's the best.

    As for whatever was going on in AVENGERS at the time- again, that's nothing to do with the story i pitched them. I had no idea that was even happening.

    i dont see how he could defeat Thor a god who battles other gods and cosmic beings on the regular.
    T'Challa cured Galactus; he can handle a thunder god given the right circumstances. Personally, I never wrote T'Challa "beating" Thor, only getting him off the board long enough to make him an ineffective adversary. Because he's that smart and that good of a tactician. Pulverising an enemy isn't always the best and certainly not the only way to win a fight.

    that's why I liked Coates tchalla as he utilized all aspects of her abilities including that of beung a tactician. I've always said a strong leader knows when to get stuff done on their own and when to delegate and I thought Coates balanced this beautifully.
    Can't comment. The rape camps took me out of the game.

    ALSO: Nothing I write is ever "executed poorly." But, thanks.
    Last edited by Redjack; 05-29-2021 at 06:38 PM.

  6. #6711
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Why not just admit you haven't read the character much and that you enjoyed Coates?

    Why shit on a character you've barely read? I don't get it. Praise your dude without shitting on the mythos.

    For example.. Aaron's Thor. I liked Aaron's Thor. God butcher arc is one of the best ever. I liked most of Jane Thor, even though it dragged too long. Thor thread hates aarons run. They give good reasons why based on his past history. I don't go in there and go "yall are wrong, aaron thor best thor!" Because Id ont' know better, i haven't read old thor stories. Just enjoyed whwt I enjoyed, commented on that, and moved on. Why not do that?


    quest T'challa just stalled the thor fight with tech. Not like he killed thor.

    BP KIB... BP momentarily stopped the invasion. It is a tiny country, maybe Knull wasn't that interested and would have gotten around to it later with more forces. Who knows... it's comics. Geoffrey used the mythos to tell the story... it wasn't PIS or CIS. You aren't using those terms correctly.

    Maybe the phoenix thing was tested AFTER AvX? And the phoenix event, it wasn't attacking Wakanda then. THe better choice for Tchalla was just to win the tournament.

    How come you don't complain of PIS/CIS when storm gets random power ups here and there? Pray to beat Adversary? PRAISE! T'challa outsmart a god with tech to delay a fight in a cartoon? oh no, that can't happen! This stuf is so transparent man. Just praise what you praise instea do fputting other stuff down when you don't know anything
    I always go back to the Aaron Avengers run. Most everyone here likes that book because it’s been one of the few consistent bright spots in T’Challa’s publication recently. It’s also one of the most heavily criticized books out right now because several fanbases are pissed about what Aaron’s been doing with Jen and Thor. I know what I read the book for and I respect the rights of other fanbases I’m not truly a part of to be mad with his direction.

    It takes a certain level of ego and shallowness to turn around to those fans and lie about how a character I generally don’t read is better than ever under Aaron. Imagine telling She-Hulk fans that she had no nuance and was a sex object before Aaron came and they should be happy with his take. That’s how many Storm fans sound when they try to justify every single thing Coates does by basically suggesting he’s “deeper” than Priest, who they never even read lol. Like T’Challa was an inhuman, Goku-type figure with no nuance or challenges until Coates entered the picture.

    All because that’s somehow easier than saying “Y’know it sucks Coates doesn’t really write T’Challa the way he’s traditionally been shown but I really like what he does with Storm”. I’d respect that much more than the weak arguments we tend to get in this thread. Does anyone really think butterflykyss would’ve had an issue with the King In Black tie-in if Storm was there in the background going all Hadari Yao through the prayers of Wakandans lol?

  7. #6712
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    For me Aarons Avengers isnt good. He writes a good Tchalla though. Hes had two good arcs the Vampire and Khonshu arcs.

  8. #6713
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    THat's something you should ask Editorial. They approved my story and chose not to use any of the stuff presented in it. I'm sure they have reasons. But the rest of the mini series, AFTER what happens in Wakanda, was not my concern. T'Challa didn't use anything that the other heroes didn't already know. He just used the rules effectively to save his people and his land, which are his primary concern at all times.

    He's the most dangerous human being on the planet for a reason. We showed that.



    The Wakandans began to build the Hand of Bast after their first encounter with the Phoenix force but it wasn't just sitting in a vault somewhere. This is a prototype that no one had ever used before. They think it can beat the Phoenix. Can it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    but it can definitely handle a Symbiote dragon. Which is why T'Challa told Okoye to bring it out. maybe it isn't ready to take on the Phoenix but it didn't need to. It just needed to take on the dragon long enough for T'Challa to get time to build the actual win. Which we know it did because we all saw it happen (also, who says there's only one? Panthers have four feet.).

    This entire story is about T'Challa-as-Tactician and WHY he's the best.

    As for whatever was going on in AVENGERS at the time- again, that's nothing to do with the story i pitched them. I had no idea that was even happening.



    T'Challa cured Galactus; he can handle a thunder god given the right circumstances. Personally, I never wrote T'Challa "beating" Thor, only getting him off the board long enough to make him an ineffective adversary. Because he's that smart and that good of a tactician. Pulverising an enemy isn't always the best and certainly not the only way to win a fight.



    Can't comment. The rape camps took me out of the game.
    1. Well if criticism should be directed at editorial for the aspects I thought could have been done differently in KIB I think the same should be the case for the latest BP run. That said, editorial should do better in terms of making sure crossovers are more aligned and don't do anything to conflict with one another.

    2. Thanks for the explanation. I think when these things occur out of nowhere (I don't believe I read of this weapon after AvX at any point) it seems to be used as a tool to demonstrate how powerful the weapon is instead without using the story to show us. It just read to convenient a tool considering it had not appeared before that story or even referenced.

    3. The fight i saw where Thor was BFR using tech does count as a defeat if only momentarily. As I said, I'm sure some that battle worked well for and looked cool but it didn't seem realistic based upon the stories I've seen with Thor.

    4. Rape camps were a tool used to show how evil man can be regardless of the society. Rape can be seen across the globe. His run shouldn't have been reduced to that because it was definitely much more that that.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  9. #6714
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    2. Thanks for the explanation. I think when these things occur out of nowhere
    that never happened. it was explained in-story.

    3. The fight i saw where Thor was BFR using tech does count as a defeat if only momentarily.
    Nope. At no time is Thor "defeated" or even knocked off his feet. We did that on purpose. NOTHING T'Challa did to Thor did anything more than piss him off.

    4. Rape camps were a tool used to show how evil man can be regardless of the society. Rape can be seen across the globe.
    Not in Wakanda. Sorry about it.

    His run shouldn't have been reduced to that because it was definitely much more that that.
    Can't comment. The rape camps took me out.

  10. #6715
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I always go back to the Aaron Avengers run. Most everyone here likes that book because it’s been one of the few consistent bright spots in T’Challa’s publication recently. It’s also one of the most heavily criticized books out right now because several fanbases are pissed about what Aaron’s been doing with Jen and Thor. I know what I read the book for and I respect the rights of other fanbases I’m not truly a part of to be mad with his direction.

    It takes a certain level of ego and shallowness to turn around to those fans and lie about how a character I generally don’t read is better than ever under Aaron. Imagine telling She-Hulk fans that she had no nuance and was a sex object before Aaron came and they should be happy with his take. That’s how many Storm fans sound when they try to justify every single thing Coates does by basically suggesting he’s “deeper” than Priest, who they never even read lol. Like T’Challa was an inhuman, Goku-type figure with no nuance or challenges until Coates entered the picture.

    All because that’s somehow easier than saying “Y’know it sucks Coates doesn’t really write T’Challa the way he’s traditionally been shown but I really like what he does with Storm”. I’d respect that much more than the weak arguments we tend to get in this thread. Does anyone really think butterflykyss would’ve had an issue with the King In Black tie-in if Storm was there in the background going all Hadari Yao through the prayers of Wakandans lol?
    I actually liked how storm was used here. tchalla showed his love for her as she was being possessed by knull which was consistent to the main book and consistent with Coates. no issues for me beloved.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  11. #6716
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    that never happened. it was explained in-story.



    Nope. At no time is Thor "defeated" or even knocked off his feet. We did that on purpose. NOTHING T'Challa did to Thor did anything more than piss him off.


    Not in Wakanda. Sorry about it.



    Can't comment. The rape camps took me out.
    1. as I mentioned in story was super convenient for me which took me out of it.

    2. he wasn't battle field removed with the tech put on his body?

    3. Coates BP is canon and it occurred in wakanda. that is fact.

    4. gotcha.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  12. #6717
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I always go back to the Aaron Avengers run. Most everyone here likes that book because it’s been one of the few consistent bright spots in T’Challa’s publication recently. It’s also one of the most heavily criticized books out right now because several fanbases are pissed about what Aaron’s been doing with Jen and Thor. I know what I read the book for and I respect the rights of other fanbases I’m not truly a part of to be mad with his direction.

    It takes a certain level of ego and shallowness to turn around to those fans and lie about how a character I generally don’t read is better than ever under Aaron. Imagine telling She-Hulk fans that she had no nuance and was a sex object before Aaron came and they should be happy with his take. That’s how many Storm fans sound when they try to justify every single thing Coates does by basically suggesting he’s “deeper” than Priest, who they never even read lol. Like T’Challa was an inhuman, Goku-type figure with no nuance or challenges until Coates entered the picture.

    All because that’s somehow easier than saying “Y’know it sucks Coates doesn’t really write T’Challa the way he’s traditionally been shown but I really like what he does with Storm”. I’d respect that much more than the weak arguments we tend to get in this thread. Does anyone really think butterflykyss would’ve had an issue with the King In Black tie-in if Storm was there in the background going all Hadari Yao through the prayers of Wakandans lol?
    We all know the answer to that can’t wait for both O & her fan base to go away & stay away for all those reasons above.. Wish them luck with those “big plans” lol

  13. #6718
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    1. as I mentioned in story was super convenient for me which took me out of it.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    2. he wasn't battle field removed with the tech put on his body?
    Shuri: I can't believed that worked.
    T'Challa: We have to run before he gets back.

    No reasonable person would describe that as Thor getting defeated.

    3. Coates BP is canon and it occurred in wakanda. that is fact.
    well. yeah. until the next writer erases it. Which, if I ever get in the chair, I will absolutely do.

  14. #6719
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    if I'm not mistaken thor was jobbed to make tchalla look badass, which I didn't like. that was one of my biggest complaints about the bp kib issue. yes tchalla should be badass but it shouldn't be by way pis or cis. How was tchalla able to rid all of wakanda of the dome shrouded by the symbiotic cocoon and not alert knull god, while all the other heroes are struggling? The wakandans have a weapon strong enough to defeat phoenix why the heck wasn't it used in avx or more recently in the battle for the mantle? tchalla as technologically advanced as they are i dont see how he could defeat thor a god who battles other gods and comsic beings on the regular. that's why I liked Coates tchalla as he utilized all aspects of her abilities including that of beung a tactician. I've always said a strong leader knows when to get stuff done on their own and when to delegate and I thought Coates balanced this beautifully.
    ... What are you even talking about? Are you complaining about Panther quest, or King in black, or... Both? I'm going to assume both so let's see:

    Thor wasn't job in Panther quest. He was outsmarted, T'Challa knew he couldn't beat Thor on a straight fight, so he distracted hi him and told Shuri to get his tech weapon he prepared for Thor. Then he used his tech to redirect Thors lightning strike from Shuri to T'Challas shield and fired it back at Thor. None of T'Challas strikes actually hurt Thor and Thor wasn't trying to kill T'Challa. Finally thot throws his hammer (what T'Challa was waiting for) and it sets off his trap which fires Thor off the earth taking him out of the fight. Thor wasn't jobbed. He was beating the Frak out of T'Challa when he connected.

    King In black, already explained how he rid knull from Wakanda do I'm not going to go into that. The hand of Bast, the weapon designed to face the Phoenix was still a prototype, that means it wasn't around when AvX happened and was more likely started after that event for when it came back again.

    ... I mean do you Know anything about T'Challa? He regularly fights above his weight class. This has always been a thing. Wakanda repelled the skrulls solo and repelled Thanos forces twice before it fell. Are you going to complain about that too? The most technologically advanced nation on earth shown holding its own is a bad thing? T'Challa doesn't beat gods and cosmic beings by out fighting them, he puts smarts them. Something Coates failed to have T'Challa do.

    Really sound's like you just don't like T'Challa and Wakanda to be shown as powerful without a certain someone being there to help.

    Coates Wakanda is weak as frak and that's why no one else on the MU used It that way.

  15. #6720
    Be seeing you… DigiCom's Avatar
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    "Canon" only matters when it's a story you like.

    I still remember folks trying to justify the Adversary as a god-level threat when it was "canon" that he could be defeated by being stuck in an ordinary metal box.

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