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  1. #9451
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Yea every superhero that gets consistent publication is gonna go through the same story beats. How many times has Steve put down the shield and questioned America? How often does Tony lose his company? Thor being forced to take the throne of Asgard? T'Challa getting constantly deposed is no different than Aquaman going through the same. It's annoying and lazy most of the time unless there's a big twist and it leads somewhere interesting.

    But I could understand Huntsman Spider's point about being uncomfortable or outright opposed to superpowered monarchy. If you grow up in a democratic system it can become difficult to justify a system like Wakanda's. But that's where being able to separate the real and the fantastical comes into play as a writer/editor. Your job is to tell fun stories within the established mythos, trying to deconstruct core elements of said mythos removes what made it engaging for audiences in the first place.

    Liking Black Panther and telling stories where his unilateral leadership of Wakanda saves the day isn't anymore an endorsement of dictatorship than Tony Stark's control of Stark Industries is an endorsement of big business controlling every aspect of our government. Kingship is a storytelling device designed to streamline stories and appeal to humanity's desire for wish fulfillment. It should be embraced for the character's where that's a huge part of their identity, like T'Challa or the Inhumans.
    There ain't nothing comfortable about superhuman dudes running around punching bad guys in NYC either. There ain't nothing comfortable about anything in superhero comics if you force them into "real life." That is why it is fiction.

    I honestly don't know how a black panther fan would want the monarchy to end. It is kinda essential to the character and what makes him different.

    "BP Fans" are really concerned about Wakandan Citizens for some weird reason. BP fans in generally have a massive connection to a bunch of redshirts.

    Thor fans don't give a **** about Asgardians peeps. Black Bolt Fans don't care about some random inhumans. Ditto for namor, aquaman, doom, and other monarch fans.

    But, Wakanda has the nicest, most chill, and most heroic king in all super hero fiction and yet they constantly worry about how Y'jobo the villager feels about democracy????
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 07-26-2021 at 06:01 AM.
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  2. #9452
    Astonishing Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofali View Post
    Duped, because I had already accepted the Internet rumours that she is playing Madame Slay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Morph View Post
    Would have much rather see her play Madame Slay, who is a unique female character, instead of just another Dora. I think Ayo and Okoye are enough Dora representation for the films.
    To be fair Nakia isnt comics Nakia. M'Baku is no longer Man Ape. Killmonger's backstory was changed.

    Its possible Aneka left the Dora's and became a "Madam Slay type character"

    A Dora who became a Killmonger fanatic would be interesting. She believed in the cause so much she reached out to non Wakandan/Atlantis for help. Mimicking N'jobu's bad decision.


    However, chances are I'm probably making it more creative than what they are doing, lol.
    Last edited by Klaue's Mixtape; 07-26-2021 at 06:44 AM.

  3. #9453
    Astonishing Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    Chadwick was so great in this scene


    His reaction in that scene mirrors my thoughts on some of the decisions the franchise has done lately.

  4. #9454
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    There ain't nothing comfortable about superhuman dudes running around punching bad guys in NYC either. There ain't nothing comfortable about anything in superhero comics if you force them into "real life." That is why it is fiction.

    I honestly don't know how a black panther fan would want the monarchy to end. It is kinda essential to the character and what makes him different.

    "BP Fans" are really concerned about Wakandan Citizens for some weird reason. BP fans in generally have a massive connection to a bunch of redshirts.

    Thor fans don't give a **** about Asgardians peeps. Black Bolt Fans don't care about some random inhumans. Ditto for namor, aquaman, doom, and other monarch fans.

    But, Wakanda has the nicest, most chill, and most heroic king in all super hero fiction and yet they constantly worry about how Y'jobo the villager feels about democracy????
    It is fiction, lots of fans and creators forget that.

    A good deal of fans and creators also aren’t fans of T’Challa BP as much as they are the world of Wakanda. Between the Coates era and the BP movie (which in many corners was viewed as an ensemble) you have a new generation of fans who feel the main draw of BP isn’t T’Challa but the factions and side characters that populate Wakanda. So naturally their concerns and interests about what they want the franchise to do are going to disproportionately center people not named T’Challa.

    Few other fan bases deal with that kind of dichotomy, the Batman fanbase is fractured in a similar way where lots of people don’t care for Bruce himself but love Nightwing, Red Hood, Batgirl, etc. the difference is the Bat brand is so popular you can get multiple books and people can choose what they want. But if your only interest in BP is the Dora Milaje I can’t say I’m surprised that people want storylines where they rebel against the throne or are given control of their own region within the pages of BP. That’s the only consistent book where they appear and if they’re not dominating in the pages of his book they got nothing.

    Doesn’t help that BP is the only major black-led franchise at the Big 2 so people pin undue expectations on the title to represent as many types of black folks and every black character possible. That’s why Storm fans love Coates and why “fans” are constantly begging for BP to team up with random black superhero #74, because the chances of those characters getting play anywhere else is low.

  5. #9455
    Astonishing Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    So T'Challa might be getting dragged into some X-Men shenanigans but I'm not sure what to what extent. Al Ewing talked about how he drew heavily from the Coates era BP goddess stuff for Storm to write her op and that he read Ridley's BP script. Since Ewing is a continuity nerd it could be nothing more than him just making sure that the continuity lines up with whatever Ridley has plans for the issue where T'Challa visits Storm.
    Last edited by KingNomarch; 07-26-2021 at 07:33 AM.

  6. #9456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I would guess one of these. I really don't think it's Erik, he literally just died lol.

    I think Achebe, Wanda (RJs version), Solomon prey may be a good one too. There's alot of villains that can use a revamp.
    Hopefully this is the cAse

  7. #9457
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    There ain't nothing comfortable about superhuman dudes running around punching bad guys in NYC either. There ain't nothing comfortable about anything in superhero comics if you force them into "real life." That is why it is fiction.

    I honestly don't know how a black panther fan would want the monarchy to end. It is kinda essential to the character and what makes him different.

    "BP Fans" are really concerned about Wakandan Citizens for some weird reason. BP fans in generally have a massive connection to a bunch of redshirts.

    Thor fans don't give a **** about Asgardians peeps. Black Bolt Fans don't care about some random inhumans. Ditto for namor, aquaman, doom, and other monarch fans.

    But, Wakanda has the nicest, most chill, and most heroic king in all super hero fiction and yet they constantly worry about how Y'jobo the villager feels about democracy????
    Keep bleeding out these facts bruh! There are many of us that understand T'Challa is KING, and is the heart of all things Black Panther. People can sandbag all these other agenda moves they can conjure, it doesn't change the truth that is seemingly about to be rewritten.

  8. #9458
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    So T'Challa might be getting dragged into some X-Men shenanigans but I'm not sure what to what extent. Al Ewing talked about how he drew heavily from the Coates era BP goddess stuff for Storm to write her op and that he read Ridley's BP script. Since Ewing is a continuity nerd it could be nothing more than him just making sure that the continuity lines up with whatever Ridley has plans for the issue where T'Challa visits Storm.
    Yeah, but that brief synopsis though...???? Why they got him a King looking all humbled??

  9. #9459
    Astonishing Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Yeah, but that brief synopsis though...???? Why they got him a King looking all humbled??
    It depends on how Ridley's take on T'Challa is written
    It could be an act on T'Challa's part to sell whatever image he's feeding Storm and the X-Men so that they won't figure out why he's really there.

    I'm still trying to figure out how does someone killing Wakandan spies connect to Sol. Unless the villain is a mutant or something.

  10. #9460
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    It depends on how Ridley's take on T'Challa is written
    It could be an act on T'Challa's part to sell whatever image he's feeding Storm and the X-Men so that they won't figure out why he's really there.

    I'm still trying to figure out how does someone killing Wakandan spies connect to Sol. Unless the villain is a mutant or something.
    Yea I have a hard time connecting spy assassinations on Earth to cosmic politics. Like even if these enemies were using Krakoan tech or mutants were the culprit it’d seem more appropriate for T’Challa to take up his concerns with Professor X or Magneto since Storm’s role is intergalactic.

    A possible explanation could be the assassins are somehow tied to space. Another is that T’Challa has a spy within Storm’s council on Mars and he’s trying to protect that spy from getting killed, which would surely draw the ire of mutantkind, since they’d find out T’Challa’s been performing espionage on them.

    And I agree while the cover is concerning, it’s all about how Ridley subverts expectations. People seem to think T’Challa is gonna dragged by the X-Men based off how humble he’s looking but it could easily be an act of his to feign weakness and achieve his real goal. The synopsis definitely implies T’Challa has a trick up his sleeve and the tag line is T’Challa vs the X-Men of Mars, I don’t expect this to be T’Challa getting his ass kicked and put down by his ex, even if that is a possibility given the recent history.

    I think we’ll have a good idea of how this plays out based on the first two issues of the run, if T’Challa’s depicted in a Coates/garbage-ass Vita Ayala-like way we already have a good idea of how his meeting on Mars will go lol. But a cover of T’Challa standing over defeated mutants would be cool and probably have generated more interest though lol.
    Last edited by chief12d; 07-26-2021 at 08:19 AM.

  11. #9461
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Yea I have a hard time connecting spy assassinations on Earth to cosmic politics. Like even if these enemies were using Krakoan tech or mutants were the culprit it’d seem more appropriate for T’Challa to take up his concerns with Professor X or Magneto since Storm’s role is intergalactic.

    A possible explanation could be the assassins are somehow tied to space. Another is that T’Challa has a spy within Storm’s council on Mars and he’s trying to protect that spy from getting killed, which would surely draw the ire of mutantkind, since they’d find out T’Challa’s been performing espionage on them.

    And I agree while the cover is concerning, it’s all about how Ridley subverts expectations. People seem to think T’Challa is gonna dragged by the X-Men based off how humble he’s looking but it could easily be an act of his to feign weakness and achieve his real goal. The synopsis definitely implies T’Challa has a trick up his sleeve and the tag line is T’Challa vs the X-Men of Mars, I don’t expect this to be T’Challa getting his ass kicked and put down by his ex, even if that is a possibility given the recent history.

    I think we’ll have a good idea of how this plays out based on the first two issues of the run, if T’Challa’s depicted in a Coates/garbage-ass Vita Ayala-like way we already have a good idea of how his meeting on Mars will go lol. But a cover of T’Challa standing over defeated mutants would be cool and probably have generated more interest though lol.
    Storm would be one of the few people who would know where certain wakandan spies were at.

    Maybe T'challa is coming by to find out if she told anyone at the mutant orgies about some of them lol.

    Or if a telepath got into her head somehow.

    Or maybe he is stressed and is there for a booty call lol
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  12. #9462

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    So I'm clear, T'challa isn't allowed to sleep with anyone except Storm? Its either Storm or Rosy Palm, the end?

  13. #9463
    Incredible Member Pulp Fiction's Avatar
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    There's a huge translucent silhouette with the cowl on that's quietly dominating the cover. Even the way t'challa hand is drawn is telling. It's an espionage story after all. My bet is he has a spy among the mutants he needs to protect but I'm choosing to be an optimist

  14. #9464
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Storm would be one of the few people who would know where certain wakandan spies were at.

    Maybe T'challa is coming by to find out if she told anyone at the mutant orgies about some of them lol.

    Or if a telepath got into her head somehow.

    Or maybe he is stressed and is there for a booty call lol
    I like to think T’Challa revamped certain aspects of the Wakandan security/intelligence network so Storm didn’t know how Wakanda was defending itself without her as its queen. Even Vita managed to get that right when she tried to input a code to breakout of the temple where Skybreaker was being held but was denied and attacked by security drones.

    But that’s a good theory, Storm might be leaking info to whoever is attacking the Wakandan spies or someone is tampering with her mind. I’d prefer if T’Challa talked to Manifold or Gentle and one or both of them was giving him sensitive info about Krakoa stuff. It’d actually make sense because Gentle makes a great bodyguard for Storm and could potentially be one of her confidants/part of her court on Mars as a former student. He’d be one of the most high value spies to protect.

    I’d be annoyed if it’s a booty call lol but it would not surprise me.

  15. #9465
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    It is fiction, lots of fans and creators forget that.

    A good deal of fans and creators also aren’t fans of T’Challa BP as much as they are the world of Wakanda. Between the Coates era and the BP movie (which in many corners was viewed as an ensemble) you have a new generation of fans who feel the main draw of BP isn’t T’Challa but the factions and side characters that populate Wakanda. So naturally their concerns and interests about what they want the franchise to do are going to disproportionately center people not named T’Challa.

    Few other fan bases deal with that kind of dichotomy, the Batman fanbase is fractured in a similar way where lots of people don’t care for Bruce himself but love Nightwing, Red Hood, Batgirl, etc. the difference is the Bat brand is so popular you can get multiple books and people can choose what they want. But if your only interest in BP is the Dora Milaje I can’t say I’m surprised that people want storylines where they rebel against the throne or are given control of their own region within the pages of BP. That’s the only consistent book where they appear and if they’re not dominating in the pages of his book they got nothing.

    Doesn’t help that BP is the only major black-led franchise at the Big 2 so people pin undue expectations on the title to represent as many types of black folks and every black character possible. That’s why Storm fans love Coates and why “fans” are constantly begging for BP to team up with random black superhero #74, because the chances of those characters getting play anywhere else is low.
    I was thinking something along these lines about how non-BP fans and some of the recent new-comers have expectations on BP that aren't consistent with who he's actually supposed to be. That's why I always argue that BP is not a super-hero in the truest sense. He can do heroic things, he can be a role model, he can be heroic but ultimate he's a king and king's make decisions that aren't always in the best interests of everybody.

    Then I started thinking, "when was the last time BP killed someone"? I don't mean some demon or symbiote or otherworldly creature. I mean an actually person. BP has killed before, we know this. BP's in the past have killed before. But now there has been some effort to homogenize him for the masses. I can understand that with the MCU BP and why they would avoid having him kill and maybe make him a tad more heroic than the comics version. But there is precedent for BP to kill his enemies or at least try. We haven't seen that in quite some time. He rarely evens threatens a kill these days unless like I said, it's some non human entity. Is that a conscious decision on Marvel's part and how do we feel about that?

    I think his last "kill" was the Cotati Swordsman(not human). I don't recall him killing anything directly in KiB:Black Panther(somebody refresh my memory). There's been an ongoing effort by Marvel to strip away some of the characteristics away from the comics BP for quite awhile. This is what has really been bugging long-time BP fans, seeing a watered down version of a character they like while other characters get upgrades. I think and hope with the sleeper agents angle that Ridley is taking is that we get back to seeing the chess master Panther doesn't hesitate to do things is way and by any means necessary.

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