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  1. #12526
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    for the comic side it appeared more like Coates was going for the mystical route for Shuri, one of the few things that wasn't a bad idea on his part. The problem was that, like Zenzis power, it was so thinly and poorly thought out, it came off more like a ex machina than a defined power set.

    In the Comics I still believe T'Challa is responsible for tech still, but Shuri is now creeping in on it due to the MCU and also creeping on mystical side due to comics. Shuri should be an alchemist. Mixing tech and magic while T'Challa takes the tech role soley. The difference between them should be T'Challa believes on advancing Wakanda purely through science and technology and Shuri thinks the next step is through magic and science via alchemy.

    We need someone like Redjack to come in and clear the air. For the MCU Shuri should move into the alchemy side because again, if T'Challa is still around, then not doing this they are turning him into Black Cap and that is diminishing his character all to give a supporting cast member something to do, and IF T'Challa is gone and they try to make Shuri BP that's going to look really wrong considering Letitia had no physical presence at all and that would be pretty shitty to make her THE tech genius and a h2h fighter whilst T'Challa wasnt highlighted as such
    Slow clap!!!!!

  2. #12527
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Writers don’t know what the hell to do with Shuri when she’s not BP. That led to two very different iterations of her character that have been clashing since 2018. Coates’ mystical direction was objectively the best way to differentiate her from T’Challa and open her up to her own lane but the MCU’s tech princess direction is the default way she’s seen. So basically she’s now an experienced martial artist per her time as BP, a mid-tier sorceress, a top 10 genius, etc.

    Everything that made T’Challa special is basically getting watered down to make Shuri relevant. If Shuri gets alchemy then there’s no point to Shadow Physics. If Shuri is also Griot then KOTD is just useless in comparison. If Shuri is gonna basically invent all of T’Challa’s tech from now on why even pretend like he’s still a peer to the likes of Tony Stark and Reed Richards?

    Poor management and really unfortunate timing is the cause tbh, Coates was reinventing Shuri at the same time the movie came out and Marvel is so desperate to make Shuri a thing they immediately switched up her character, which leads to inconsistency. Now she’s most likely gonna get reduced to being T’Challa’s Q/Robin in the Ridley run when she could’ve easily built her own franchise based around the supernatural. Then when her MCU status quo as BP settles in they’ll probably try and have her share the mantle with T’Challa, basically killing any chance of her ever being her own thing. Shuri has more potential than pretty much any legacy character in comics today and yet because there’s few creators that care about T’Challa, there’s hardly anyone thinking about how to differentiate and develop her outside of copying the movies.
    Co-signed on all of this. Though I always thought an easy fix for the Griot stuff is to just simply take away the necromancy so that KOTD doesn’t seem redundant.
    T'Challa
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  3. #12528
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    T'challa's paranoid ass probably didn't trust half the room TBF lol

    T'challa and Tony have never had the "brother" relationship that T'challa and Cap had.


    I'm also thinking of Panther's Quest where Tony was always trying to get along with T'Challa and T'Challa seemingly wanted nothing to do with him .

  4. #12529
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Writers don’t know what the hell to do with Shuri when she’s not BP. That led to two very different iterations of her character that have been clashing since 2018. Coates’ mystical direction was objectively the best way to differentiate her from T’Challa and open her up to her own lane but the MCU’s tech princess direction is the default way she’s seen. So basically she’s now an experienced martial artist per her time as BP, a mid-tier sorceress, a top 10 genius, etc.

    Everything that made T’Challa special is basically getting watered down to make Shuri relevant. If Shuri gets alchemy then there’s no point to Shadow Physics. If Shuri is also Griot then KOTD is just useless in comparison. If Shuri is gonna basically invent all of T’Challa’s tech from now on why even pretend like he’s still a peer to the likes of Tony Stark and Reed Richards?

    Poor management and really unfortunate timing is the cause tbh, Coates was reinventing Shuri at the same time the movie came out and Marvel is so desperate to make Shuri a thing they immediately switched up her character, which leads to inconsistency. Now she’s most likely gonna get reduced to being T’Challa’s Q/Robin in the Ridley run when she could’ve easily built her own franchise based around the supernatural. Then when her MCU status quo as BP settles in they’ll probably try and have her share the mantle with T’Challa, basically killing any chance of her ever being her own thing. Shuri has more potential than pretty much any legacy character in comics today and yet because there’s few creators that care about T’Challa, there’s hardly anyone thinking about how to differentiate and develop her outside of copying the movies.
    Marvel comics all stupid, pretending some shitty mini series would work if only Shuri was a genius too, just like the MCU version! Because that transfer of fans from MCU to comics has worked for all the other characters.......

    Keep trying to capture that Moon Girl magic. Shoulda gave tech Shuri a pet Panther or something lol

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Co-signed on all of this. Though I always thought an easy fix for the Griot stuff is to just simply take away the necromancy so that KOTD doesn’t seem redundant.
    I'd gladly give away the stupid KOTD stuff to Shuri if T'challa would go back to the only top 10 genius
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  5. #12530
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Writers don’t know what the hell to do with Shuri when she’s not BP. That led to two very different iterations of her character that have been clashing since 2018. Coates’ mystical direction was objectively the best way to differentiate her from T’Challa and open her up to her own lane but the MCU’s tech princess direction is the default way she’s seen. So basically she’s now an experienced martial artist per her time as BP, a mid-tier sorceress, a top 10 genius, etc.

    Everything that made T’Challa special is basically getting watered down to make Shuri relevant. If Shuri gets alchemy then there’s no point to Shadow Physics. If Shuri is also Griot then KOTD is just useless in comparison. If Shuri is gonna basically invent all of T’Challa’s tech from now on why even pretend like he’s still a peer to the likes of Tony Stark and Reed Richards?

    Poor management and really unfortunate timing is the cause tbh, Coates was reinventing Shuri at the same time the movie came out and Marvel is so desperate to make Shuri a thing they immediately switched up her character, which leads to inconsistency. Now she’s most likely gonna get reduced to being T’Challa’s Q/Robin in the Ridley run when she could’ve easily built her own franchise based around the supernatural. Then when her MCU status quo as BP settles in they’ll probably try and have her share the mantle with T’Challa, basically killing any chance of her ever being her own thing. Shuri has more potential than pretty much any legacy character in comics today and yet because there’s few creators that care about T’Challa, there’s hardly anyone thinking about how to differentiate and develop her outside of copying the movies.
    All of this and yet, RJ solved the whole thing on a single issue in KiB. MCU Shuri is NOT set up as a fighter, and at this point it would be jarring to even try and it would not be believable in the slightest. Shuri CAN move to the alchemy route relinquish the hold on a things science to some extent.

    I seriously think it was a huge mistake to give literally EVERYTHING related to science, medicine, engineering etc etc. To Shuri in the first movie. The more I think about it, the more the conversation she has with Ross gets on my nerves when she is talking about how she figured out how to transport vibranium by making it temporarily inert.

    That was literally how T'Challa stopped Doom in DW, and they gave it to Shuri, as well as everything else.thst was the one thing, that, like T'Challa making his CW habit, should of been credited to T'Challa. It would of been a huge feat that was not only his already but also helps explain why he told Shuri to turn on the trains (in terms of movie pacing) and it gives him his super genius while Shuri still has her role.

    Honestly we will have to see what Ridley does but at this point we NEED Redjack to get the book after him. It's the only way we can get a solid difference between the two that will not cause one to be overshadowed by the other (Which is currently T'Challa being overshadowed) and allow Shuri to actually spin off

  6. #12531
    On a Mission… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulp Fiction View Post
    Editorial would never let that happen to doom, who balances tech and magic and cosmic. In Marvel vs capcom doom gets a great move set and T’Challa is handcuffed to this agile guy in a suit status quo. I’d bet money if they did another MVC, the developers would genuinely think having shuri pop up in his ultimate move to provide him the tech is something his fans would like. What a mess
    Doom was originally mostly tech (with a little bit of magic). In fact, it was even a minor plot point in Triumph & Torment. But starting around the Waid run of FF, he's been written as more and more of a magic-user, to the point that he went from "barely able to hear a magical message" to "Sorcerer Supreme candidate". *shrug*

  7. #12532
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    T'challa's paranoid ass probably didn't trust half the room TBF lol

    T'challa and Tony have never had the "brother" relationship that T'challa and Cap had.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post


    I'm also thinking of Panther's Quest where Tony was always trying to get along with T'Challa and T'Challa seemingly wanted nothing to do with him .
    They had made great strides in their trust and friendship in John’s run on Avengers and as to not trusting each other back then, Tony has always been very paranoid himself. Tony says in the preview that T’ Challa has every right not to trust him.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 10-26-2021 at 12:03 PM.
    " I am alive. I am angry. I am no longer apologizing for anything. Not my machines. Not my decisions. Not my deeds. I am going to win this fight. I am the one who wins. Korvac thinks he is a god. But I Am Iron Man.." TONY STARK

  8. #12533
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Doom was originally mostly tech (with a little bit of magic). In fact, it was even a minor plot point in Triumph & Torment. But starting around the Waid run of FF, he's been written as more and more of a magic-user, to the point that he went from "barely able to hear a magical message" to "Sorcerer Supreme candidate". *shrug*
    If I remember correctly, in Triumph, he used to tech to basically supplant his low magical ability right (in comparison to other sorcerers at the thingy)?
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  9. #12534
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Co-signed on all of this. Though I always thought an easy fix for the Griot stuff is to just simply take away the necromancy so that KOTD doesn’t seem redundant.
    That fixes the problem mostly, Griot should be about connecting to the Djalia and interfacing with spiritual energy found in the living world, leave the necromancy and summoning stuff to KOTD. There's nothing inherently wrong with both T'Challa and Shuri delving into science and magic, but there need to be distinctions because its ridiculous how Marvel consistently downgrades one while heaping powers on the other.

    Really, what should've happened is Shuri went full on magic but if we're not doing that then the skills she does share with T'Challa need to feel unique to her. Redjack is one of only a handful of writers that understands that and I'm hoping Ridley does to. Making Shuri into a female, quippier clone of T'Challa isn't going to make her a viable character in the comics.

  10. #12535
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That fixes the problem mostly, Griot should be about connecting to the Djalia and interfacing with spiritual energy found in the living world, leave the necromancy and summoning stuff to KOTD. There's nothing inherently wrong with both T'Challa and Shuri delving into science and magic, but there need to be distinctions because its ridiculous how Marvel consistently downgrades one while heaping powers on the other.

    Really, what should've happened is Shuri went full on magic but if we're not doing that then the skills she does share with T'Challa need to feel unique to her. Redjack is one of only a handful of writers that understands that and I'm hoping Ridley does to. Making Shuri into a female, quippier clone of T'Challa isn't going to make her a viable character in the comics.
    It's not even something that can't be applied to the MCU either to make them different. They just need to heavily highlight T'Challas Super genius and make it clear that it's only because his other responsibilities is why he doesn't tinker on a lab. Hell I would settle for some on the fly tech feats st this point, assuming he is alive still

  11. #12536
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    T'Challa
    A.K.A. The Black Panther
    King of Wakanda
    King of the Dead and The Champion of Bast
    Two-Time Time Magazine "Person Of The Year"
    Six-Time People Magazine "Sexiest Man Alive"

  12. #12537
    On a Mission… DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    If I remember correctly, in Triumph, he used to tech to basically supplant his low magical ability right (in comparison to other sorcerers at the thingy)?
    Yeah. He took off his gauntlets, disabling his weapons & force field… but he kept the tech that allowed him to analyze & record his opponents. Sneaky Vic.

  13. #12538
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Marvel comics all stupid, pretending some shitty mini series would work if only Shuri was a genius too, just like the MCU version! Because that transfer of fans from MCU to comics has worked for all the other characters.......

    Keep trying to capture that Moon Girl magic. Shoulda gave tech Shuri a pet Panther or something lol



    I'd gladly give away the stupid KOTD stuff to Shuri if T'challa would go back to the only top 10 genius
    I still maintain that Preyy should be resurrected and become one of the good guys. Lol.
    T'Challa
    A.K.A. The Black Panther
    King of Wakanda
    King of the Dead and The Champion of Bast
    Two-Time Time Magazine "Person Of The Year"
    Six-Time People Magazine "Sexiest Man Alive"

  14. #12539

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    Culture Crave Popcorn
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    Kevin Feige wanted all the OG Avengers to die in #Endgame

    The Russos pushed back because they didn't think fans could process it and there wouldn't be enough time to celebrate all of them within the story
    Just wish the Russos or Feige pushed back on killing T'Challa in IW. Would have been great to see T'Challa really interact with Tony, Thor and Steve.

  15. #12540

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    Ezyo, Dboi and BlackClaw after they find out MCU made Shuri basically T'Challa+

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