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  1. #751
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Like ABC's The Rookie. Titus Makin (who seems to only exist on that show as the gay black son of a police chief that is a f up. Because most reviewers for that show only mention those tow aspects of him) had a black boyfriend in season one barely seen. Season 2 got a famous white one and was made fun of for it.

    Outside of Designated Survivor, Noah's Arc and actual LGBT web shows like About Him-I can't think of any shows that have black male lovers. Is there some new rule that we don't know about?


    And I think you can have a love interest for Panther from another franchise (NOT X-Men). There has to be some dead franchise with a black woman that can be taken. Like New Universe-like Friction I mean Blur survived why couldn't some others. Or Wildstreak?
    Again, I can Only think of Monica Rambeau that could keep up with his world, and now that opportunity has passed if wanting to venture outside the franchise. Which at this point, LI should be from the franchise to avoid conflict

  2. #752
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    If Hudlin married T'Challa and Monica Rambeau there's a very good chance they would've still been married to this day. Storm and T'Challa got broken up over the movies and because the X-office apparently wanted their toy back. That would've never been an issue with Monica which lends itself to a lot more stability. As stable as a superhero romance can be at least lol. That said, Monica has always been C-D list and would've never generated the hype and media attention that Storm did, who was at the time more popular than T'Challa.

    But long term Monica made more sense for the reasons you said. She had a less vocal, aggressive fanbase in large part because she wasn't particularly popular or essential to any franchise. And she was 100% owned by and created by the Avengers office so you didn't have any significant constraints on her use or on the types of stories you could tell. They'd be an Avengers power couple in the way Scarlet Witch and Vision are. Less high profile than a cross franchise pairing with Marvel's most popular black female hero but still commendable and relevant. In hindsight Monica is an infinitely better superhero love interest for T'Challa, even if that's not necessarily what I'd want now.
    Yeah it's basically comes down to the same thing that's been plaguing BP during Coates era. Stability with less hype, and less of a "wow" factor but likely a more lax editorial mandate vs initial hype with a isht ton of baggage, franchise warring, and general mistreatment of black characters with extreme mandate.

    Again I don't fault Hudlin. It made sense at the time to pair the most popular black heroes together to make a power couple. But unfortunately it was destined to fail hard because of WHO Storm is connected to.

    Monica would of benefited greatly from the exposure, it would of bridged the fan bases, and then long term, honestly I think those dividends would be cashing in right now.

    But the time has passed and it's time to focus on what can be controlled fully without getting the rug ripped out from their feet

  3. #753
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    If Hudlin married T'Challa and Monica Rambeau there's a very good chance they would've still been married to this day. Storm and T'Challa got broken up over the movies and because the X-office apparently wanted their toy back. That would've never been an issue with Monica which lends itself to a lot more stability. As stable as a superhero romance can be at least lol. That said, Monica has always been C-D list and would've never generated the hype and media attention that Storm did, who was at the time more popular than T'Challa.

    But long term Monica made more sense for the reasons you said. She had a less vocal, aggressive fanbase in large part because she wasn't particularly popular or essential to any franchise. And she was 100% owned by and created by the Avengers office so you didn't have any significant constraints on her use or on the types of stories you could tell. They'd be an Avengers power couple in the way Scarlet Witch and Vision are. Less high profile than a cross franchise pairing with Marvel's most popular black female hero but still commendable and relevant. In hindsight Monica is an infinitely better superhero love interest for T'Challa, even if that's not necessarily what I'd want now.
    If not Monica as far as marriage then create a character fitting for the role. If anyone read NOBLE from Lion's Forge, the wife in that series would be someone they could model from. She was pretty much like a high level Dora as far as fighting skills and abilities.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Yeah it's basically comes down to the same thing that's been plaguing BP during Coates era. Stability with less hype, and less of a "wow" factor but likely a more lax editorial mandate vs initial hype with a isht ton of baggage, franchise warring, and general mistreatment of black characters with extreme mandate.

    Again I don't fault Hudlin. It made sense at the time to pair the most popular black heroes together to make a power couple. But unfortunately it was destined to fail hard because of WHO Storm is connected to.

    Monica would of benefited greatly from the exposure, it would of bridged the fan bases, and then long term, honestly I think those dividends would be cashing in right now.

    But the time has passed and it's time to focus on what can be controlled fully without getting the rug ripped out from their feet
    I think you hit the nail on the head. With Black Panther (and most comic characters in general tbh) it always comes down to more stability with less hype vs more hype with less stability. Storm was a great short term boon to the BP franchise sales/media-wise but it arguably wasted years of development and actually hurt T'Challa's standing as a character in the long run.

    That's why when Marvel eventually tries to rebuild the character post-Coates they should tell stories and develop characters that will promote the long term health of the franchise. This means focusing on in-house supporting characters, love interests, and villains to build up world of BP. It also means selecting writers and creative directions that may not get the most hype in the media, but will result in stories that actual fans want to read and will support for years to come. One would hope the failure of the Coates era would teach Marvel this lesson, but that remains to be seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    If not Monica as far as marriage then create a character fitting for the role. If anyone read NOBLE from Lion's Forge, the wife in that series would be someone they could model from. She was pretty much like a high level Dora as far as fighting skills and abilities.
    A love interest like that would be great. Noble had great approach to the "girl of action" trope, much like the MCU did with Nakia. I'm personally more in favor of a Daenerys Targaryen kind of love interest (minus the crazy lol). Just revamp Monica Lynne as a big shot NGO leader with a rebounding music career and have her brought back into the fold as T'Challa's main political ally with her own humanitarian agenda. She has the legacy of being T'Challa's first lover, has the established background in social work, and offers us someone who could really humanize T'Challa without having to be in the field with him.

  5. #755
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head. With Black Panther (and most comic characters in general tbh) it always comes down to more stability with less hype vs more hype with less stability. Storm was a great short term boon to the BP franchise sales/media-wise but it arguably wasted years of development and actually hurt T'Challa's standing as a character in the long run.

    That's why when Marvel eventually tries to rebuild the character post-Coates they should tell stories and develop characters that will promote the long term health of the franchise. This means focusing on in-house supporting characters, love interests, and villains to build up world of BP. It also means selecting writers and creative directions that may not get the most hype in the media, but will result in stories that actual fans want to read and will support for years to come. One would hope the failure of the Coates era would teach Marvel this lesson, but that remains to be seen.



    A love interest like that would be great. Noble had great approach to the "girl of action" trope, much like the MCU did with Nakia. I'm personally more in favor of a Daenerys Targaryen kind of love interest (minus the crazy lol). Just revamp Monica Lynne as a big shot NGO leader with a rebounding music career and have her brought back into the fold as T'Challa's main political ally with her own humanitarian agenda. She has the legacy of being T'Challa's first lover, has the established background in social work, and offers us someone who could really humanize T'Challa without having to be in the field with him.
    Yeah I mean, it's been HUGELY plaguing T'Challa in the WORST ways on two fronts. You have those people who wanted the MCU to use BP to introduce Storm and kick out Nakia/ turn her into Malice. Then you have the comic side, who trolls and flings isht every chance they get..
    Yet still turn around and tie/ rely on storms development to be done through Wakanda.

    As for the Monica angle, is she still alive? If so, you could tie in events of the recent years for her getting involved with humanitarian work and learning she has a knack for it naturally ontop of her time in Wakanda with T'Challa can easily fix that without a whole revamp. I'm not big on ignoring things straight up so I would rather Retcon via explanation in story reason that makes sense keeps it from being mentioned without the full story.

  6. #756
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Yeah I mean, it's been HUGELY plaguing T'Challa in the WORST ways on two fronts. You have those people who wanted the MCU to use BP to introduce Storm and kick out Nakia/ turn her into Malice. Then you have the comic side, who trolls and flings isht every chance they get..
    Yet still turn around and tie/ rely on storms development to be done through Wakanda.

    As for the Monica angle, is she still alive? If so, you could tie in events of the recent years for her getting involved with humanitarian work and learning she has a knack for it naturally ontop of her time in Wakanda with T'Challa can easily fix that without a whole revamp. I'm not big on ignoring things straight up so I would rather Retcon via explanation in story reason that makes sense keeps it from being mentioned without the full story.
    pairing him with storm was an editorial error.

    pairing him with anyone not either created in or now limited to his solo book is always going to be a mistake. there are too many competing influences when the love interest isn't built into the MAIN HERO's story.

    this is not limited to BP. it's just a poorly thought out pairing.
    Last edited by Redjack; 01-24-2021 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #757
    Thinking the Unthinkable DigiCom's Avatar
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    I don't think T'Challa NEEDS a "love interest". Traditionally, they've been less characters than plot devices, driving the story by getting kidnapped, hurt, or (since the '80s, especially in a certain street-level book) killed. Monica Lynne was, sadly, the perfect example of thet.

    But I could see him gaining a _partner_ who he is in a relationship with. An equal in power if not rank, who can hold her own in the physical and political battles to come. I agree with Mister Thorne that the character NEEDS to be under the exclusive control of the book, tho. Storm was a poor choice from that perspective. But it need not be someone from the mythos specifically. Pulsar would work, as would someone of a more mystical bent (since T'Challa & his crew have science tied up).

    I wonder whatever happened to Topaz....

  8. #758
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I don't think T'Challa NEEDS a "love interest". Traditionally, they've been less characters than plot devices, driving the story by getting kidnapped, hurt, or (since the '80s, especially in a certain street-level book) killed. Monica Lynne was, sadly, the perfect example of thet.

    But I could see him gaining a _partner_ who he is in a relationship with. An equal in power if not rank, who can hold her own in the physical and political battles to come. I agree with Mister Thorne that the character NEEDS to be under the exclusive control of the book, tho. Storm was a poor choice from that perspective. But it need not be someone from the mythos specifically. Pulsar would work, as would someone of a more mystical bent (since T'Challa & his crew have science tied up).

    I wonder whatever happened to Topaz....
    Not always. Lois, Selina, MJ, Jane, Elektra have developed into more than just plot devices and have become well developed characters in their own right.. Being in a healthy(or unhealthy) is just a part of life and shouldn't be seen as some kind of hindrance to a character.

    T'Challa's problem has been they haven't given much thought to a fully developed character who isn't a trope that could have grown with T'Challa. Even if that character was an on again/off again LI, that would have been someone that could have been a bedrock character like the others I mentioned earlier.

    While we've debated the merits of Hudlin's decision to have BP marry Storm, it just highlights the fact that T'Challa doesn't have his own in-house character and his supporting cast is now is basically Shuri, Okoye, Ramonda and the random Dora or HZ. We all keep talking about world building but you can't build anything without a foundation and T'Challa really doesn't have one other than he's smart and Vibranium.

    And there have been too many times previous supporting casts didn't make it over to the next series. T'Challa solos have been a series of disconnected stories with little to no reference of what came before it. We've seen more references of what happens in Avengers or events than what's happened in his own previous series. It's hard to build a foundation when they keep tearing all the bricks down.

  9. #759
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Not always. Lois, Selina, MJ, Jane, Elektra have developed into more than just plot devices and have become well developed characters in their own right.. Being in a healthy(or unhealthy) is just a part of life and shouldn't be seen as some kind of hindrance to a character.

    T'Challa's problem has been they haven't given much thought to a fully developed character who isn't a trope that could have grown with T'Challa. Even if that character was an on again/off again LI, that would have been someone that could have been a bedrock character like the others I mentioned earlier.

    While we've debated the merits of Hudlin's decision to have BP marry Storm, it just highlights the fact that T'Challa doesn't have his own in-house character and his supporting cast is now is basically Shuri, Okoye, Ramonda and the random Dora or HZ. We all keep talking about world building but you can't build anything without a foundation and T'Challa really doesn't have one other than he's smart and Vibranium.

    And there have been too many times previous supporting casts didn't make it over to the next series. T'Challa solos have been a series of disconnected stories with little to no reference of what came before it. We've seen more references of what happens in Avengers or events than what's happened in his own previous series. It's hard to build a foundation when they keep tearing all the bricks down.
    Very good points there, especially at the end about the writers/editorial not investing effort into a foundation that actually sticks for T'Challa's character and mythos.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #760
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Very good points there, especially at the end about the writers/editorial not investing effort into a foundation that actually sticks for T'Challa's character and mythos.
    Yeah and it's not a continuity thing either. It's just a base of characters that are important enough to travel from one series to the next. Same thing with his villains. T'Challa has enough obscure supporting characters and villains that would benefit from an upgrade and be good enough to travel from series to series.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Yeah and it's not a continuity thing either. It's just a base of characters that are important enough to travel from one series to the next. Same thing with his villains. T'Challa has enough obscure supporting characters and villains that would benefit from an upgrade and be good enough to travel from series to series.
    Oh, most definitely. I still like the idea of the Supremacists coming back, since they seem like the kind of foes who could be dusted off for another run at Wakanda now that it's making even more waves in the world.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Oh, most definitely. I still like the idea of the Supremacists coming back, since they seem like the kind of foes who could be dusted off for another run at Wakanda now that it's making even more waves in the world.
    I've been saying for years that T'Challa needs a Sinister Six. The Supremacists could fit that bill. Likely need a name change.

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I've been saying for years that T'Challa needs a Sinister Six. The Supremacists could fit that bill. Likely need a name change.
    Of course they would. "Supremacists" is a little too on the nose these days, although a name with "Supreme" or "Superior" in it could maybe work.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #764
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Of course they would. "Supremacists" is a little too on the nose these days, although a name with "Supreme" or "Superior" in it could maybe work.
    every time we get into these talks it KILLS me I'm never getting my hands on this franchise.

    I might need to step away.

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Of course they would. "Supremacists" is a little too on the nose these days, although a name with "Supreme" or "Superior" in it could maybe work.
    Supreme Squadron? Squadron Superior? The Imperialists?

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