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  1. #13861
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJlock View Post
    Even if she went first and challenged S'Yan, what would stop T'Challa from issuing her a challenge for the mantle and thus, establishing his vision for Wakanda's future anyway?
    Probably works similar to the MCU, where you don't have to accept a challenge if you don't want. The only time a challenge is mandatory would be when there's a power vacuum after the ruling BP dies. S'Yan was probably getting up there in age and decided to host a Challenge Day to be relieved of his duties. I imagine T'Chaka did the same thing in the movies.

    I do respect that T'Challa is still technically king though, Shuri's just acting as the Regent. Still don't like the divvying up of his traits, but it's fairly obvious that if/when he returns to Wakanda he'll have full authority.

  2. #13862
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    The only thing I didn’t like was Shuri saying she was basically doing the job anyway. T’Challa in the game wasn’t an Avenger until Klaw’s invasion. Wakanda’s borders had been closed ever since Cap’s death and even then they were only ever briefly opened. He had nothing to do but put down whatever insurrections came his way (assuming there were any) and govern. Doesn’t make sense to depict him as an absentee king at all.

    But it’s fairly obvious this Shuri is arrogant in this game so maybe she thinks running the Wakandan Design Group makes her the de facto leader, which doesn’t really make much sense but wouldn’t be out of this iteration’s character.

    More generally I dislike the idea that the only way for Shuri to level up is for T’Challa to lose his classic traits. Aquaman’s been a member of the League for decades and no one questions how he can be a relatively successful ruler and a full time hero at the same time. Same goes for Namor with the Defenders. Outside Young Justice and the more recent comics, DC shows Aquaman as being able to juggle both his duties.

    But when T’Challa joins the Avengers he has to lose his throne to his sister. When Marvel initially wants to give Shuri a push he’s the one that has to lose his mantle. Marvel needs to get more creative with her character because it’s becoming downright parasitic that the only way they can elevate her is by diminishing T’Challa, which is an issue that she’s had since her creation by Hudlin. Evan was such a huge fan of the Coates run but he didn’t think to just make her Griot? She has to shade her brother’s capabilities as king and then be given the throne despite how nearly every other king in Big 2 comics is allowed to juggle multiple hats? It’s dumb and one of the few things I didn’t like about the expansion.
    If Marvel knew what they were doing then they’d just run with the Griot Shuri idea and make her Marvels answer to Nightwing. A side character that successfully branched out to be a solo hero in their own right without stepping on the toes of the main character. But nope, more of the tired Black man vs Black woman nonsense.
    T'Challa
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  3. #13863
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That’s the issue. Like Marvel2100 said, Shuri’s whole identity is she’s the heir apparent. That was literally it before the MCU had the novel idea of just stealing T’Challa’s intelligence instead. And it looks like due to tragic circumstances she’s also gonna take the mantle anyway lol. The only writers that didn’t go the “she’s next in line and that’s it” route is Coates.

    The clip is essentially implying that if T’Challa’s not around Shuri can reach her full potential. If he is then she’ll always be a shadow of what she could be. That’s a really toxic dynamic to support between an OG and their legacy and you pretty much don’t see it in any other IP. Not in Aquaman, not with Cap, not with Iron Man, etc. Because most IPs have an additive approach where they try to expand the roles of side characters into something new, not cannibalize preexisting concepts while constantly criticizing the stuff that came before. They may use a temporary mantle shift to make headlines but the endgame is nearly always to make them self-sustainable. Shuri’s had several years to do that and people still can’t name a damn thing that’s original about her lol. If she’s not diminishing T’Challa’s intelligence, she’s taking the throne. If she’s not taking the throne, she’s BP. If she’s not BP she’s just waiting in the wings until the right time (Hudlin).

    If Marvel acts like the only remotely relevant parts of BP are being king, being BP, and the Dora Milaje then of course their only method of making Shuri “popular” is by taking one (or both) of those things from T’Challa. You’ll never hear a Captain America project imply Steve is holding Falcon back. Or that if Tony didn’t believe or do XYZ then War Machine and Iron Man mythos would be better off.
    They had a chance to make Shuri more post Secret Wars. and I'm not talking about Griot lol.

    Shuri was queen during the very worst moments of Wakanda's history. Yes, some of the shit was T'challa's fault, but still. Namor flooding was Shuri's reign. Kingpin would have taken shit over if not for T'hcalla in Hell's Kitchen. Wakanda became an aggressor for the FIRST TIME EVER when she destroyed Atlantis. Shuri was queen when Wakanda was conquered and wiped off the map... which Shuri responded by giving up the throne and basically committing suicide.

    Her reign was a failure. She is the worst ruler IN THE HISTORY OF WAKANDA.

    There was a chance for some ridiculous growth after that.... instead Coates did the Griot thing (hey, at least he tried something) and then the MCU messed stuff up and Chadwick's death is about to muck things up further.

    It is just dumb strategy to piss on the main hero to build up the legacy one. Because who are the fans that actually care about the legacy character pre-take over? they are BP fans lol. Shuri's main built in base of "support" is T'challa fans. Pissing any percentage of them off to build of her is immediately making it that much more difficult to make the character stick.
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  4. #13864
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Probably works similar to the MCU, where you don't have to accept a challenge if you don't want. The only time a challenge is mandatory would be when there's a power vacuum after the ruling BP dies. S'Yan was probably getting up there in age and decided to host a Challenge Day to be relieved of his duties. I imagine T'Chaka did the same thing in the movies.

    I do respect that T'Challa is still technically king though, Shuri's just acting as the Regent. Still don't like the divvying up of his traits, but it's fairly obvious that if/when he returns to Wakanda he'll have full authority.
    Meh, there’s hardly anything that can truly save this game at this point. Not even Spider-Man held my interest for an hour. But I can appreciate how T’Challa briefly got people hyped to play this game again, temporarily helped it rebound in sales and had people clamoring for a Black Panther game proper.
    T'Challa
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  5. #13865
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    This reminds me of EMH where Shuri wasn't even a thing and T'Challa was still basically just king the whole time he was with The Avengers .

  6. #13866
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    If Marvel knew what they were doing then they’d just run with the Griot Shuri idea and make her Marvels answer to Nightwing. A side character that successfully branched out to be a solo hero in their own right without stepping on the toes of the main character. But nope, more of the tired Black man vs Black woman nonsense.
    Bro, they gotta get Shuri out of Wakanda. Even now with Wakanda shifting towards democracy, the role of BP is different. If something happens to T'Challa she won't become ruler, not even sure if she would become BP.

    That's why I say get her out of Wakanda so that she can forge her own identity. If they ever brought Young Avengers back, that would be the place for her.

  7. #13867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Bro, they gotta get Shuri out of Wakanda. Even now with Wakanda shifting towards democracy, the role of BP is different. If something happens to T'Challa she won't become ruler, not even sure if she would become BP.

    That's why I say get her out of Wakanda so that she can forge her own identity. If they ever brought Young Avengers back, that would be the place for her.
    Exactly have her fully embrace the Griot identity and then just have a solo series of her going around Africa handing out L’s to mythical African creatures like the Grootslang or Tokoloshes and watch the money flow in. Lol.
    Last edited by BlackClaw; 11-30-2021 at 05:33 PM.
    T'Challa
    A.K.A. The Black Panther
    King of Wakanda
    King of the Dead and The Champion of Bast
    Two-Time Time Magazine "Person Of The Year"
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  8. #13868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    Anti-Tchalla propaganda. Evan can stay far far away from the franchise if this is his work



    https://youtu.be/ur3kqzO8ft4
    Yeah that's pretty dumb and very much anti T'Challa. Shuri is becoming a parasite to T'Challa just like Storm. Despite his garbage run, Coates atleast tried to separate Shuri from T'Challa with something unique. This video is just dumb and very much anti T'Challa. Shuri ain't the draw, and this attitude they are giving her that she would somehow be a better ruler, when we have already seen that she failed harder than T'Challa ever did as BP and basically committed suicide when faced with her failure, is this the character that they should be trying to push? She would be better suited to take in her own Mantle, not trying to constantly take T'Challas

  9. #13869
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    We give too much oxygen to the Shuri shills to be honest. Man do I wish there were more BP stuff so we could talk about that instead. Wish he had another mini or ongoing to break up the gaps between months (Aaronvengers isn’t to my taste). Now that the first issue is out it would be nice if someone interviewed Ridley on what his long term plans for the book are, since he can probably speak more freely.
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  10. #13870
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Bro, they gotta get Shuri out of Wakanda. Even now with Wakanda shifting towards democracy, the role of BP is different. If something happens to T'Challa she won't become ruler, not even sure if she would become BP.

    That's why I say get her out of Wakanda so that she can forge her own identity. If they ever brought Young Avengers back, that would be the place for her.
    More than that, she needs her own identity and skill set. Being a super genius bis only hurting T'Challa, as we can see the MU is inserting Shuris name into EVERYTHING T'Challa shows up in, from that Avengers tech on, to dark ages etc. ANYTIME anything sciencey or super genius talk comes in T'Challa is mentioning Shuri and she ain't even in the book or a major part of it. It's getting old. Make her a griot like Coates did or the alchemist hybrid RJ did in KiB and have her hang with mystic's like strange, voodoo and the like and get her out of Wakanda and off T'Challas back like the parasite they are making her into like they made Storm. T'Challa had been THE super genius for 50+ years, Shuri had been labeled a super genius since 2018 and it gets thrown around and retconned in and it doesn't work
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 11-30-2021 at 05:13 PM.

  11. #13871
    Astonishing Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That’s the issue. Like Marvel2100 said, Shuri’s whole identity is she’s the heir apparent. That was literally it before the MCU had the novel idea of just stealing T’Challa’s intelligence instead. And it looks like due to tragic circumstances she’s also gonna take the mantle anyway lol. The only writers that didn’t go the “she’s next in line and that’s it” route is Coates.

    The clip is essentially implying that if T’Challa’s not around Shuri can reach her full potential. If he is then she’ll always be a shadow of what she could be. That’s a really toxic dynamic to support between an OG and their legacy and you pretty much don’t see it in any other IP. Not in Aquaman, not with Cap, not with Iron Man, etc. Because most IPs have an additive approach where they try to expand the roles of side characters into something new, not cannibalize preexisting concepts while constantly criticizing the stuff that came before. They may use a temporary mantle shift to make headlines but the endgame is nearly always to make them self-sustainable. Shuri’s had several years to do that and people still can’t name a damn thing that’s original about her lol. If she’s not diminishing T’Challa’s intelligence, she’s taking the throne. If she’s not taking the throne, she’s BP. If she’s not BP she’s just waiting in the wings until the right time (Hudlin).

    If Marvel acts like the only remotely relevant parts of BP are being king, being BP, and the Dora Milaje then of course their only method of making Shuri “popular” is by taking one (or both) of those things from T’Challa. You’ll never hear a Captain America project imply Steve is holding Falcon back. Or that if Tony didn’t believe or do XYZ then War Machine and Iron Man mythos would be better off.
    Very well said. I might quote this in other places if you don't mind LOL

  12. #13872
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    We give too much oxygen to the Shuri shills to be honest. Man do I wish there were more BP stuff so we could talk about that instead. Wish he had another mini or ongoing to break up the gaps between months (Aaronvengers isn’t to my taste). Now that the first issue is out it would be nice if someone interviewed Ridley on what his long term plans for the book are, since he can probably speak more freely.
    Eh, it kinda deserves oxygen when the "shills" are making decisions way up the food chain.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  13. #13873
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    We give too much oxygen to the Shuri shills to be honest. Man do I wish there were more BP stuff so we could talk about that instead. Wish he had another mini or ongoing to break up the gaps between months (Aaronvengers isn’t to my taste). Now that the first issue is out it would be nice if someone interviewed Ridley on what his long term plans for the book are, since he can probably speak more freely.
    Man, if we only still had Ultimates around. I would take Carol off the team and replace her with someone like Sue Storm.

    Then we would have T'Challa running both teams and we'd get the inevitable conflict. What side would T'Challa choose? Believe it or not, I think he'd side with the Ultimates.

  14. #13874
    Astonishing Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    They had a chance to make Shuri more post Secret Wars. and I'm not talking about Griot lol.

    Shuri was queen during the very worst moments of Wakanda's history. Yes, some of the shit was T'challa's fault, but still. Namor flooding was Shuri's reign. Kingpin would have taken shit over if not for T'hcalla in Hell's Kitchen. Wakanda became an aggressor for the FIRST TIME EVER when she destroyed Atlantis. Shuri was queen when Wakanda was conquered and wiped off the map... which Shuri responded by giving up the throne and basically committing suicide.

    Her reign was a failure. She is the worst ruler IN THE HISTORY OF WAKANDA.

    There was a chance for some ridiculous growth after that.... instead Coates did the Griot thing (hey, at least he tried something) and then the MCU messed stuff up and Chadwick's death is about to muck things up further.

    It is just dumb strategy to piss on the main hero to build up the legacy one. Because who are the fans that actually care about the legacy character pre-take over? they are BP fans lol. Shuri's main built in base of "support" is T'challa fans. Pissing any percentage of them off to build of her is immediately making it that much more difficult to make the character stick.

    Guess I never really thought about her time in charge in that sort of way. You're absolutely right that it would have been a very interesting story to see her lose all that power and try to find herself without just being a seeker of the mantle. Would have been a chance for her to go on adventures around the world, team up with other Heroes outside of wakanda and truly find herself as a character. That would have been an interesting read for sure

  15. #13875
    Ghost Panther Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    More than that, she needs her own identity and skill set. Being a super genius bis only hurting T'Challa, as we can see the MU is inserting Shuris name into EVERYTHING T'Challa shows up in, from that Avengers tech on, to dark ages etc. ANYTIME anything sciencey or super genius talk comes in T'Challa is mentioning Shuri and she ain't even in the book or a major part of it. It's getting old. Make her a griot like Coates did or the alchemist hybrid RJ did in KiB and have her hang with mystic's like strange, voodoo and the like and get her out of Wakanda and off T'Challas back like the parasite they are making her into like they made Storm. T'Challa had been THE super genius for 50+ years, Shuri had been labeled a super genius since 2018 and it gets thrown around and retconned in and it doesn't work
    Honestly? No matter what they call her or what genius-level she is, she needs to be in another book. As long as she stays in a BP solo, the questions will always be there: What to do with Shuri? How does it impact T'Challa? Can a writer come along and find the perfect balance between the two?

    So far? No. Even when Coates made Shuri into Griot, she was still the problem solver, the wise one. The one who would be at odds with her brother.

    I mentioned before that she needs to be on a team and I said YA. Now that I think about it, she'd be a lot better with the FF. That would inject some new blood into the FF book and give Shuri a chance to build her own name with an established team.

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