T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[BlackClaw]

I loved the politic discussion with Shuri - I need more of that in BP book.

Me too. But given that Shuri was Queen at one point, her being naive about this kind of stuff is jarring to a long time Black Panther fan.

[MindofShadow]

Me too. But given that Shuri was Queen at one point, her being naive about this kind of stuff is jarring to a long time Black Panther fan.

Man, go back and read Hudlin/Liss/Mayberry/Hickman Shuri compared this this version and tell me it is even the same character lol

Maybe she's a skrull lol/ The long game revenge fo the Skrulls!!! 6D chess

[DigiCom]

Me too. But given that Shuri was Queen at one point, her being naive about this kind of stuff is jarring to a long time Black Panther fan.

Marvel stopped caring about long-time fans years ago. They see nothing wrong with drastically changing a character's history, personality, or relationships if they think they can get a sale out of it. What happened to Shuri is relatively tame compared to others.

[KingNomarch]

Me too. But given that Shuri was Queen at one point, her being naive about this kind of stuff is jarring to a long time Black Panther fan.

Man, go back and read Hudlin/Liss/Mayberry/Hickman Shuri compared this this version and tell me it is even the same character lol

Maybe she's a skrull lol/ The long game revenge fo the Skrulls!!! 6D chess

Let's not forget that the previous run had Shuri say that the rape camp victims should've been left to die if it meant Wakanda survives.

[DigiCom]

Let's not forget that the previous run had Shuri say that the rape camp victims should've been left to die if it meant Wakanda survives.

See my comment above about "drastic changes". Shuri has had it worse than most, thanks to authorial agendas colliding with cinematic synergy.

[MindofShadow]

Let's not forget that the previous run had Shuri say that the rape camp victims should've been left to die if it meant Wakanda survives.

Sounds like something a Skrull would say to destablize

lol

[Ezyo1000]

Let's not forget that the previous run had Shuri say that the rape camp victims should've been left to die if it meant Wakanda survives.

Which makes it all the more funny how the writer in that article said T'Challa deferred to those wiser than him, when hos Mom, Ramonda, and Storm all said stupid isht during the run, mainly the former two.

Also when the claimed he was disrespecting a woman on power, it's like, did they not bread what was happening? Who disrespected who first? The PM was going on and on and was being disrespectful to start, and T'Challa called out the flaws of democracy. I just find articles like that so funny because they love to criticize the things T'Challa does whole out right ignoring all the other stuff or context of the situation.

[Frontier]

I wonder if they'll ever try to recontexualize current MCU-lite Shuri with old Shuri.

[Ezyo1000]

See my comment above about "drastic changes". Shuri has had it worse than most, thanks to authorial agendas colliding with cinematic synergy.

Honestly? She has become worse of a character because of it. One of the few things Coates did right was making Shuris transition into a new role a fairly logical one in terms of what she went through after being queen. She realized after her death and resurrection, she didn't want that responsibility as queen or ruler of Wakanda. That wasn't her role to fill. I don't like his vague ass powers he gave her, but I appreciate the separation of her development to not make her the female T'Challa.

Honestly they should develop her into Redjacks KiB alchemist version with a particular affinity to the mystical side over the tech to further solidify her lane as a mystic over genius but genius all the same. While T'Challa is THE super genius in the family.

But this teenage/Coates version hybrid is just taking the worst element of both Coates and Cooglers versions and making a weird on between that is just... Bad. And the hamfisting Shuri into everything super genius related is also getting annoying

[Ekie]

I wonder if they'll ever try to recontexualize current MCU-lite Shuri with old Shuri.

I honestly have no interest in her as a concept anymore. She could be replaced by Okoye and I dont think we lose anything. Marvel has completely failed with her as a character to the point that no one even knows what she is.

[chief12d]

Which makes it all the more funny how the writer in that article said T'Challa deferred to those wiser than him, when hos Mom, Ramonda, and Storm all said stupid isht during the run, mainly the former two.

Also when the claimed he was disrespecting a woman on power, it's like, did they not bread what was happening? Who disrespected who first? The PM was going on and on and was being disrespectful to start, and T'Challa called out the flaws of democracy. I just find articles like that so funny because they love to criticize the things T'Challa does whole out right ignoring all the other stuff or context of the situation.

That’s actually the crazy thing. None of the people that were supposedly wiser than T’Challa actually agreed with any of his changes. Ramonda was the one pushing him to put the pressure on Changamire for his liberal beliefs. And she straight up told a member of parliament “Wakanda is not that democratic yet” when at the beginning of Avengers of the New World they tried criticizing T’Challa. Ramonda been with the shits, she’s the biggest autocrat in the entire damn family lol.

Shuri point blank said she’s fine with Wakandans getting raped and dying as long as the Golden City stands, at one point her entire character was based around her obsession with power and royal authority. Storm I can take, but she never actually advised T’Challa on policy matters, they just talked about the nature of godhood and slavery. The revisionist history with the Coates run is wild, people are really just projecting what they want out of the characters against what actually happened.

[chief12d]

The semi good thing about Coates entire run is that everything he did was vague and empty. There is no substance and no detail to anything despite all the words.

Parliament? We know nothign about it and it was straight up ignored after it was introduced.

Orisha? Only Bast ever did anything and nothing was every really solved between Bast and T'challa.

Zenzi and Tetu had little to no characterization other than a cool design. It is a shame he killed them off in the end because future writer coudl have used them.

Akili was basically just a name. Ditto with Hodari.

Space Empire is about as empty as you can get.

Storm and T'chalal were never solidified one way or another.

All the time wasted with the midnight angels seemingly had them re-integrated into the Doras.

the whole thing is a blank page that can be molded anywya a new writer wants. Or completely ignored if they want (just like Coates did). Ridley is obviously bringing in the parliament and the empire to some extent, so we will see if his ideas can actually amount to something exciting. Oh and he already gave Akili more depth in 2 pages than Coates did in 5 years lol.

Speaking of Akili, I hope this is his time to shine in a supporting role. We’ve had like 3 different Wakandan intelligence agencies introduced since the Gillis run and it’s still not entirely clear what the HZ are besides special ops soldiers, which is a role already now occupied by the Dora due to the MCU. Are they now a special police force? Are they T’Challa’s regular spies? We need clarification on that and some kind of story that builds up T’Challa’s friendship with Akili. Because it’s gonna get old and lame really quickly if Ridley tries to manufacture emotional moments with underdeveloped OCs.

But overall I agree with your points, Coates did such a shitty job solidifying his concepts Ridley’s free to change them as they want without much argument that he’s going against the original story. Even that articles’ argument that T’Challa embraced democracy in the previous run is complete BS. He begrudgingly accepted democracy when it was clear the fighting wouldn’t stop unless compromises were made. And outside the scene with the parliament in Avengers of the New World there’s absolutely zero basis to suggest T’Challa was in complete support of the change in government. It’s never addressed after that story lol.

Another case of revisionist history by people who did not understand what was actually put on the page and are just projecting. They WANT T’Challa to accept a reduction in his own power and to blindly follow democracy but that’s not what actually happened or what was ever suggested in the book. Expect a lot of that nonsense as Ridley reinterprets what came before.

[KingNomarch]

I wonder if they'll ever try to recontexualize current MCU-lite Shuri with old Shuri.

IIRC Shuri was originally a traditionalist/nationalist compared to T'Challa who was progressive. A good writer could do something with that.

I honestly have no interest in her as a concept anymore. She could be replaced by Okoye and I dont think we lose anything. Marvel has completely failed with her as a character to the point that no one even knows what she is.

A lot of the supporting cast could easily be replaced with someone else. Just goes to show that writers haven't done a particularly good job with them.

[Tofali]

Man, go back and read Hudlin/Liss/Mayberry/Hickman Shuri compared this this version and tell me it is even the same character lol

Maybe she's a skrull lol/ The long game revenge fo the Skrulls!!! 6D chess

Honestly since the movie Shuri is a Skrull to me. Everything interesting about her as a character has been stripped away.

[KingNomarch]

The semi good thing about Coates entire run is that everything he did was vague and empty. There is no substance and no detail to anything despite all the words.

Parliament? We know nothign about it and it was straight up ignored after it was introduced.

Orisha? Only Bast ever did anything and nothing was every really solved between Bast and T'challa.

Zenzi and Tetu had little to no characterization other than a cool design. It is a shame he killed them off in the end because future writer coudl have used them.

Akili was basically just a name. Ditto with Hodari.

Space Empire is about as empty as you can get.

Storm and T'chalal were never solidified one way or another.

All the time wasted with the midnight angels seemingly had them re-integrated into the Doras.

the whole thing is a blank page that can be molded anywya a new writer wants. Or completely ignored if they want (just like Coates did). Ridley is obviously bringing in the parliament and the empire to some extent, so we will see if his ideas can actually amount to something exciting. Oh and he already gave Akili more depth in 2 pages than Coates did in 5 years lol.

It seems like Ridley is already reminding some of the Coates concept.

Under Coates everyone was pretty much on board with Wakanda being democratic. Right now that doesn't seem to be the ccase.

Coates introduced a tribal council that replaced the monarchy and now Ridley replaced that with the parliament and Prime Minister.

Ridley could either choose to pull a Priest and "fix" things from the Coates era the same way that Priest revealed that T'Challa joined the Avengers and became a teacher to spy on them. Or he could ignore most of it. Either fix the Coates concepts or ignore them is good with me.