T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[MindofShadow]

Yes because that’s what happened lol. Hudlin himself didn’t have much, if any experience with comics when he got the book in the 00s. Coates didn’t have any experience with fiction period. Both made pretty egregious mistakes during the course of their runs and were clearly put on the book because they were big black writers from other mediums (film and journalism respectively).

Coates had to work his way up to Captain America and was rejected from Spider-Man because that’s the top character Marvel has and no one gets him unless they’ve proven themselves time and time again. The Black Panther book is 100% held to a lower standard than most other major books at Marvel. Marvel’s barrier of entry is that you’re black and have some level of notoriety, if not in comics then in some other form of entertainment (mostly the latter). While the term “bigotry of low expectations” is a right wing talking point it aptly fits how Marvel treats the character. T’Challa does not enjoy the same protection as Thor, Cap, and Hulk when it comes to ensuring a basic level of quality from the character’s main writer.

pretty sure Mayberry and Liss's first comics were black panther

[dkrook]

Saying only black writers can write Black Panther and Wakanda is like saying only white dudes can write Thor and Asgard.

But, anyway, my problem isn't that there is an unwritten "no white guy" rule... it is just that the writers they keep using aren't comic writers.

If BP is the pinnacle of black writers (and he probably isn't, Miles Morales is probably a better gig)... then he should be treated like Spider-Man. You should have to pay your dues. What else have you written at Marvel? What have you written at DC? What have you written independently?

I don't love David Walker, but dude paid his dues, he should have been given the title if he wanted it.

I really like RJ stuff... he paid he dues... he should have been given the title if he wanted it.

This is nothing against Ridley... seems he's written comics at least. So, he is paying his dues I suppose.

The flaw in this idea is that not many black writers are ever brought on in a meaningful matter. Case in point, where is Evan after doing the mini Panther book? I even wonder if Marvel tried to lay out more substantial work for Redjack to build Marvel comics profile.

[MindofShadow]

Maybe. Its two months before shooting and we've gotten no new major casting news. BP1 had most of the big side characters (Wkabi, MBaku, Zuri) leaked at least 4 months before shooting.

So either they arent really adding any new cast for real or Marvel's hush hush policy is working much better this year.

I'd be curious what the original title was (Coogler had back in 2019). Find it hard to believe it was Wakanda Forever. No way he was holding out 2 years for that.

wasn't that mexican or spanish dude cast or was that a rumor?

[skyvolt2000]

While that's true, lack of opportunities for Black writers might still be a problem

Black Panther keeps getting black writers because all his success has come at the hands of black writers.

Priest-longest BP solo run.
Hudlin-2nd longest and his run got trades into stores.
Coates-got BP spinoffs and MILKED the movie hype wave.
Ridley-a bigger name than Coates that should keep BP and those trades out there before the movie.

Now to black writers. How many have faced a push back the moment they got hired at Marvel or DC not named Priest?

For all the talk about paying dues-McDuffie and Priest are the poster children of that. McDuffie could NOT get Spider-Man. After ALL he did from Hellraiser to Milestone to Ben 10 to Justice League. Priest could not get Batman unless he wanted to be an editor.

How many white writers can we think of who have done LESS and got big name books like Batman? Because of the good olde boy network.

Now if Marvel put say Jason Aaron on Black Panther-how many stores are going to order the book? What about James Tynion IV? Yeah Cancel Culture will throw a fit but whose fit would be worst theirs or the group who think Aaron or Tynion are WASTING their time on Black Panther and want them off the book?

So as a result we are seeing more black writers do black books at the big two. Because no one else seems to want to do it and deal with the baggage. Meanwhile outside the big two-white and non black writers are doing black lead books to no protest.

[KingNomarch]

No matter how good the pitch was Marvel is probably never gonna let a white writer take on the BP solo. It’s a book reserved for black creators and as Vordan said it sets the character up to get a higher proportion of inexperienced scribes. Ridley doesn’t fit that mold exactly but the fact is there are no A-list/B-list black comic writers who are gonna immediately attract interest in a book if they were announced except maybe Priest. But because Marvel still wants a writer that is a known quality on the BP solo, they’ll pass over smaller, more experienced creators in favor of celebrity writers.

T’Challa should be one of those characters where a writer has to work themselves up before getting the opportunity to work with him. Look how long Coates had to write BP and coordinate several spin-offs before Marvel let him do Cap. And remember Coates didn’t even wanna write Steve, he wanted to do Spider-Man but Marvel was smart enough to see he wasn’t built to handle their most important solo book. Cap was a consolation prize because he’s a lower priority than Spider-Man.

T’Challa should at least be as high a priority as Cap and Tony. You should have at least some experience and some level of acclaim before you get the book, but if Marvel’s only standard is black and celebrity, you get stuff like Coates.

At best they'll get side books like Ralph Macchio on The Sound and The Fury or Black Panther vs Deadpool by Daniel Kibblesmith and never the main title. Marvel seems to be in the habit of pairing minority characters with writers of the same race and gender. I remember Mark Waid once pitched a BP series but someone had said that it was to bad that he isn't black. All I want is a writer that wants to elevate T'Challa and Wakanda and not keep kicking him down with constant deconstruction. Don't care if they black, white, Asian or whatever. The best "modern" BP story IMO is still SWAD by Jason Aaron.

IMO T'Challa needs his own "office", someone running point for him at Marvel that actually cares about him otherwise we will get more writers like Coates and writers new to comics like Nendi or Roxane Gay. If we took elements like the rape camps from season 1 and put them in Gotham, Hell's Kitchen or NYC in general, Metropolis, etc, and the heroes knew about it. I'm certain that it wouldn't have been allowed to slide like with Coates. I agree with MoS that T'Challa is the character that you have to earn to write like the others.

[chief12d]

pretty sure Mayberry and Liss's first comics were black panther

I’m 99% sure Mayberry had written some Wolverine and Punisher before he took on BP. Liss I don’t remember. I was thinking writers who actually got to define the character and work on T’Challa for several years.

[BlackClaw]

Maybe. Its two months before shooting and we've gotten no new major casting news. BP1 had most of the big side characters (Wkabi, MBaku, Zuri) leaked at least 4 months before shooting.

So either they arent really adding any new cast for real or Marvel's hush hush policy is working much better this year.

I'd be curious what the original title was (Coogler had back in 2019). Find it hard to believe it was Wakanda Forever. No way he was holding out 2 years for that.

Wakanda forever sounds like the kind of title you save for the third movie of a trilogy to cap things off. Unless Black Panther ends up being a duology (at least for now) like some people are speculating. Ugh, we were robbed man.

[CosmiComic]

Yes because that’s what happened lol. Hudlin himself didn’t have much, if any experience with comics when he got the book in the 00s. Coates didn’t have any experience with fiction period. Both made pretty egregious mistakes during the course of their runs and were clearly put on the book because they were big black writers from other mediums (film and journalism respectively).

Coates had to work his way up to Captain America and was rejected from Spider-Man because that’s the top character Marvel has and no one gets him unless they’ve proven themselves time and time again. The Black Panther book is 100% held to a lower standard than most other major books at Marvel. Marvel’s barrier of entry is that you’re black and have some level of notoriety, if not in comics then in some other form of entertainment (mostly the latter). While the term “bigotry of low expectations” is a right wing talking point it aptly fits how Marvel treats the character. T’Challa does not enjoy the same protection as Thor, Cap, and Hulk when it comes to ensuring a basic level of quality from the character’s main writer.

I've never bought into the "bigotry of low expectations" considering how much more effort PoC have to put in to get the same respect White people get for doing less.

Anyway, I see what you're saying. BP needs to be treated the same way as other major characters. Idk what it'll take for that to happen

Black Panther keeps getting black writers because all his success has come at the hands of black writers.

Priest-longest BP solo run.
Hudlin-2nd longest and his run got trades into stores.
Coates-got BP spinoffs and MILKED the movie hype wave.
Ridley-a bigger name than Coates that should keep BP and those trades out there before the movie.

Now to black writers. How many have faced a push back the moment they got hired at Marvel or DC not named Priest?

For all the talk about paying dues-McDuffie and Priest are the poster children of that. McDuffie could NOT get Spider-Man. After ALL he did from Hellraiser to Milestone to Ben 10 to Justice League. Priest could not get Batman unless he wanted to be an editor.

How many white writers can we think of who have done LESS and got big name books like Batman? Because of the good olde boy network.

Now if Marvel put say Jason Aaron on Black Panther-how many stores are going to order the book? What about James Tynion IV? Yeah Cancel Culture will throw a fit but whose fit would be worst theirs or the group who think Aaron or Tynion are WASTING their time on Black Panther and want them off the book?

So as a result we are seeing more black writers do black books at the big two. Because no one else seems to want to do it and deal with the baggage. Meanwhile outside the big two-white and non black writers are doing black lead books to no protest.

I think people protest precisely because Black writers don't get as much respect, as you've pointed out. As for comics outside the big two, they're not as well known, so that doesn't really result in as large of a following to protest in the first place

[CosmiComic]

Wakanda forever sounds like the kind of title you save for the third movie of a trilogy to cap things off. Unless Black Panther ends up being a duology (at least for now) like some people are speculating. Ugh, we were robbed man.

Idk if this or any of the others so far will result in trilogies. But maybe 3 can be "Agents of Wakanda"

[Ezyo1000]

Grace Randolph said they may not use Namor anymore after Ryan had to change the script.

Grace Randolph also claimed she had a "credible source" that told her Marvel was going to CGI Chadwick in and kill him off at the start of BP II... But I'm SURE she was right about this one...

[Klaue's Mixtape]

wasn't that mexican or spanish dude cast or was that a rumor?

Yea. But again that was during the time when it was rumored Namor was going to be the villain (when they were going to make Atlantis = Aztec)

Still we at least got major castings like Christian Bale for Thor and Jonathan Majors as Kang for Antman. Everything seems to be quiet on the BP front.

[skyvolt2000]

pretty sure Mayberry and Liss's first comics were black panther

Mayberry-first Marvel work was a backup starring Wolverine. Black Panther was his first monthly gig. He is famous for Netflix's V-Wars.

Liss-Panther was his 2nd Marvel work but his first full time series. Liss does mystery novel set in Sherlock Holmes era.

What else have you written at Marvel? What have you written at DC? What have you written independently?

Robert Venditti was doing warehouse work for Image when he pitched Surrogates-that became a movie. He did Demon Knights for his first DC work and got Green Lantern the following year.
Scott Lobdell submitted a story using Contest of Champions and got hired. He got Excalibur and later Gen X and Uncanny X-Men as monthly gigs.

What dues are they paying? I have looked at some and I see a TREND-unlike Liss & Mayberry-they are working on properties like Batman, Deadpool and X-Men. Those one shots or backups have lead to bigger gigs and shots.

MEANWHILE-We are NOT getting those gigs.

Brandon Thomas (probably the first black man) to write an X-title-X-Force Shatterstar. It took him 11 years to get another shot at Marvel. He has Excellence & Noble under his belt.
Brandon Easton got Star Trek, Transformers, MASK and Thundercats under his belt. He can't even get in the door at Marvel. DESPITE working on Agent Carter.
Rodney Barnes's first Marvel work was introducing Rayshaun Lucas as Patriot followed by Falcon series.
Marc Bernardin-only Big two monthly gig was Static last 2 issues. All he is doing is working on Star Trek Picard and Castle Rock among other shows.

What I am seeing is what Priest did NOT want-black writers only getting black lead gigs at the big two.

[BlackClaw]

Grace Randolph also claimed she had a "credible source" that told her Marvel was going to CGI Chadwick in and kill him off at the start of BP II... But I'm SURE she was right about this one...

You know you’re a bad liar if Marvel themselves send out a spokesperson specifically to shut down a rumor you put out. Lmao.

[CosmiComic]

Yea. But again that was during the time when it was rumored Namor was going to be the villain (when they were going to make Atlantis = Aztec)

Still we at least got major castings like Christian Bale for Thor and Jonathan Majors as Kang for Antman. Everything seems to be quiet on the BP front.

That can be the title of BP3: All Quite on the Wakanda Front

You know you’re a bad liar if Marvel themselves send out a spokesperson specifically to shut down a rumor you put out. Lmao.

What is even the point of putting out faulty rumors if they'll be so easily refuted?

[Marvell2100]

While that's true, lack of opportunities for Black writers might still be a problem

That's more a problem at Marvel and DC and more importantly a lack of opportunities to write the big name heroes, Supes, Bats, Spidey.

The majority of poc writers get the obscure or C, D level characters. They get little fanfare, promotion or PR and they usually get the poc characters.