T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[BlackClaw]

Yeah, I just wish they had given him more meat on that show. Like they introduce him being like a teacher to the royal siblings but never really did anything with it and after T'Challa beats him in their first fight he has to constantly win through contrived "Just as I planned even though it seems incredibly coincidental" methods.

In an ideal world there would be a Black Panther animated series that would let him play more with Killmonger. Unfortunately every animated series Marvel has coming up with the exception of X-Men is set in the MCU. Then again there might be hope that if it does happen it won’t be connected to the MCU due to Nate Moore’s 616 comment.

[4sake Baned]

I’ve always wanted them to bury the hatchet. Granted that’s hard to do considering the **** they did to one another isn’t really something you can just hug it out over. Lol. But hopefully after all this they can at the very least have a good working relationship.

Yep the hatchet needs to buried Alrite with Shuri putting one in his chest & BP putting another one in his skull..

[chief12d]

Wager they’re certainly part of the long term picture, but I don’t know if they’re tied to the spies plot or merely a red herring. Strange is analyzing them so we should learn soon if they’re from Earth or extra dimensional, if they come from outside the Earth than I think it might be Ridley laying the ground work for his second arc after the spies.

Yea I think it's possible, if not likely, they aren't from Earth. The fact Doctor Strange is analyzing them may hint to some sort of mystical origins but I could easily see them being related to more cosmic stuff that'll likely play out later in the book. One thing that I found interesting is that in the trailer for the #1, the monsters were shown right after the phrase "allies become enemies" or something to that effect.

That could just be a big misdirect but it's got me thinking that maybe the monsters were once human and may have been transformed. And T'Challa was really quick to deny he didn't know what they were or where they came from lol. If this run is gonna focus on T'Challa's shady side, him keeping secrets about the origins of a threat the Avengers are taking on could be a fascinating wrinkle to explore.

[MindofShadow]

It’s the MCU’s fault. T’Challa could be shown as incredibly pro-Wakanda depending on the story but mostly his thing was bucking the prevailing beliefs of his people and wanting to open the kingdom up. Even Priest made that clear in his run, T’Challa may not love outsiders but he has a lot of respect for other cultures and tries to do his best so everyone, including non-Wakandans, benefits from his reign and supeheroism. It’s why he was willing to do stuff like go to war over a single refugee girl. At his core, T’Challa is a global thinker and wants what’s best for everyone, even if he will always end up putting Wakanda first if push comes to shove.

But Coogler had a story tell and that’s one where he for lack of a better word finger wagged at the concept of Wakanda for failing to help out other black people. So T’Challa was turned into a cipher for that story, the xenophobe who was confronted by the shadows of his people’s past who needed to be convinced of letting go of the old ways. It worked for the specific context though so I can’t even say it was bad. T’Chaka got to live into his old age and T’Challa was never forced to wrestle with Wakandan policy until after he died. It’s a compelling arc for that specific iteration of the character. But other mediums like the game just run with the MCU characterization of T’Challa being the backwards looking ******* while Shuri gets to moralize about the stuff comic T’Challa did.

One of the main selling points about T’Challa is that he’s the trailblazer, someone who shatters traditions and manipulates them for the sake of Wakandan and global security. In a sea of xenophobia that makes him really interesting but wider Marvel media has shifted that over to other characters. Now we have a guy who’s little more than a warrior prince with no real sense of innovation. Wakanda’s tech is a function of his sister. The progressive thematic core of the series is his girlfriend. He’s basically black conservative Captain America until he gets criticized enough by Killmonger, Shuri, or Nakia (depending on the story) into being better. And even then as we see in the game T’Challa isn’t actively shaping that cosmopolitan future. He apparently isn’t competent (or interested) enough to be both a king and superhero so he has to lose one role and give it to a supporting character. Despite literally every other king in Big 2 comics being able to wear multiple hats.

The sad part is, BP was meant to be T'challa's origin story. OUR T'challa... the one that opens up Wakanda and starts to help. This was just the beginning.... id imagine we would have started to see his more compassionate side with a dose of "protect Wakanda through any means." The tchalla comic fans are more familiar with.

But, thanks to the death, we will never get the continuation of that story. So it became his origin and conclusion at the same time.

I'd imagine BP2 is gonig to pretend opening up was 100% T'chalal's idea and the motivation to "keep open and help" even though he's dead. They will retcon it like was HIS thign completely and keep Wakandan cast chugging forward despite everythign around them going to hell lol. It will let them bring up his name 100x's lol

[BlackClaw]

So is it safe to say Akili is the face of the HZ like how Okoye is the face of the Dora’s?

[Ezyo1000]

It’s the MCU’s fault. T’Challa could be shown as incredibly pro-Wakanda depending on the story but mostly his thing was bucking the prevailing beliefs of his people and wanting to open the kingdom up. Even Priest made that clear in his run, T’Challa may not love outsiders but he has a lot of respect for other cultures and tries to do his best so everyone, including non-Wakandans, benefits from his reign and supeheroism. It’s why he was willing to do stuff like go to war over a single refugee girl. At his core, T’Challa is a global thinker and wants what’s best for everyone, even if he will always end up putting Wakanda first if push comes to shove.

But Coogler had a story tell and that’s one where he for lack of a better word finger wagged at the concept of Wakanda for failing to help out other black people. So T’Challa was turned into a cipher for that story, the xenophobe who was confronted by the shadows of his people’s past who needed to be convinced of letting go of the old ways. It worked for the specific context though so I can’t even say it was bad. T’Chaka got to live into his old age and T’Challa was never forced to wrestle with Wakandan policy until after he died. It’s a compelling arc for that specific iteration of the character. But other mediums like the game just run with the MCU characterization of T’Challa being the backwards looking ******* while Shuri gets to moralize about the stuff comic T’Challa did.

One of the main selling points about T’Challa is that he’s the trailblazer, someone who shatters traditions and manipulates them for the sake of Wakandan and global security. In a sea of xenophobia that makes him really interesting but wider Marvel media has shifted that over to other characters. Now we have a guy who’s little more than a warrior prince with no real sense of innovation. Wakanda’s tech is a function of his sister. The progressive thematic core of the series is his girlfriend. He’s basically black conservative Captain America until he gets criticized enough by Killmonger, Shuri, or Nakia (depending on the story) into being better. And even then as we see in the game T’Challa isn’t actively shaping that cosmopolitan future. He apparently isn’t competent (or interested) enough to be both a king and superhero so he has to lose one role and give it to a supporting character. Despite literally every other king in Big 2 comics being able to wear multiple hats.

Exactly, and that is what I'm saying is the problem. I'm not even turning on the movie. It was a good movie and Chadwick played the role well. However, from a BP standpoint and BP story, it gave the supporting cast too much agency at the cost of T'Challa. No reason why Shuri took credit for being able to make vibranium inert. That is LITERALLY something T'Challa figured out. So Why did it go to Shuri?? She already had her lab and had plenty of credit for things, yet T'Challa couldn't get his due? The only idea we get that he is a genius is when Shuri rags on his CW habit, and a vague bot so clear indication that maybe he made the emp beads?

Did Nakia really HAVE to be the other character pushing for WK to open? She literally Doesn't do enough to warrant such a huge agency in the movie, she could of easily been the one to support the idea whole everyone else doesn't. She could of been shown as the one in T'Challas corner, reassuring him that he IS doing the right thing despite the he push back. And it really would not of changed much in the movie. The throne room scene with Erik would of been slightly different, but the movie overall would of not been different.

As for other mediums. It's laziness and it is feeding onto black men pitted against Black women by having Shuri and T'Challa literally flipping personalities.

It's what bugs me the most, it started with Coates, then reinforced by the MCU, and now is being doubled down on the game. SHURI is the one who was more traditional and xenophobic than T'Challa. T'Challa was all about being progressive. It boggles The mind how MCU and comic Shuri are not at all the same and they basically gave her T'Challas qualities and he was given hers from the comic.

It's stupid more so, and only T'Challa, a black character, has to sacrifice his traits for basically a OC cast

[Ezyo1000]

I like the movie but it didn't do T'Challa many favors taking away his traits and intelligence and now it's made worse that Chad passed.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

This should rile up Ekie. Which isnt a bad thing. Another confusing thing, but still.

KC Walsh
@TheComixKid
Also heard a popular villain is returning to the MCU to be a “guide” for a young hero

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I like the movie but it didn't do T'Challa many favors taking away his traits and intelligence and now it's made worse that Chad passed.

Bro you're taking thing I've said but to the extreme. The movie was GREAT.

"Taking away" from T'Challa only hurt in HOW they went about handling Chad's death. It did NOTHING to hurt the film itself.

People are starting to get gassed after a couple of "non Coates, but mid BP comics"

Stop. I'm pissed at how they are handling things going forward, but Chad's film is built in stone. Unless we talking special effects there is no need to go to the extreme about the 2018 film.

[chief12d]

So is it safe to say Akili is the face of the HZ like how Okoye is the face of the Dora’s?

I'd say yes but it doesn't mean much right now. Due to Coogler the Dora Milaje have essentially taken the all encompassing role of being Wakanda's "special ops team" in the comics. The HZ are directionless and seem to just be a weaker version of the Dora, so the only way to distinguish them is to copy the MCU and have them be spies/infiltrators.

A part of me thinks Ridley may eventually flesh this out. Him using Akili at all and starting off with an espionage story is a good sign that he'll redefine the intelligence aspects of Wakanda's armed forces, which naturally opens up a way for Akili to get some development. He's pretty much T'Challa's only friend at this point so hopefully he doesn't get forgotten.

Bro you're taking thing I've said but to the extreme. The movie was GREAT.

"Taking away" from T'Challa only hurt in HOW they went about handling Chad's death. It did NOTHING to hurt the film itself.

People are starting to get gassed after a couple of "non Coates, but mid BP comics"

Stop. I'm pissed at how they are handling things going forward, but Chad's film is built in stone. Unless we talking special effects there is no need to go to the extreme about the 2018 film.

Stop what? Commenting on they feel about a movie? That's weird and needlessly demanding. If you like the movie like most of us in here do, it shouldn't be a problem to see it get criticized. We criticize literally everything that comes out, from Priest to Hudlin. Coogler isn't special and none of this is meant to bash Chadwick, we would've had these complaints no matter who played T'Challa.

The ignore button is also another option. There is a legitimate complaint to have about the nerfing of T'Challa's intelligence. And the Coates run dying with a whimper and the start of a new era is the perfect time to talk about it.

[Ekie]

This should rile up Ekie. Which isnt a bad thing. Another confusing thing, but still.

KC Walsh
@TheComixKid
Also heard a popular villain is returning to the MCU to be a “guide” for a young hero

I'd have to be surprised to be riled up. He was practically the star of the first movie thanks to his friendship with the director. None of these movies are getting made without him as long as Coogler is attached to BlackPanther's franchise.

And to Chief's point, I ENJOYED the first movie (mainly because it was the very first Black Panther movie and I've been waiting decades) but that doesn't mean it is above critique. Coogler didnt invent or even revolutionize Black Panther. He was the first who had the opportunity to direct it despite a lack of understanding of the titular character (like Coats). And like Coats issue(movie) #1 sold like crazy to the casual market and myself who watch it 6 times in theater with the hope that the second movie would be better and do more for Chadwick and TChalla.

The brand Lee and Kirby created is strong, as every longtime fan knew about Panther and Wakanda.
We will see how issue/movie 2, 3, and 4 hold up with the casuals. I expect a Coats-esk drop off as Spiderman, Dr Stange, and Carol take center stage in the MCU.

[Ezyo1000]

Bro you're taking thing I've said but to the extreme. The movie was GREAT.

"Taking away" from T'Challa only hurt in HOW they went about handling Chad's death. It did NOTHING to hurt the film itself.

People are starting to get gassed after a couple of "non Coates, but mid BP comics"

Stop. I'm pissed at how they are handling things going forward, but Chad's film is built in stone. Unless we talking special effects there is no need to go to the extreme about the 2018 film.

It's not extreme, I am of the same mindset that I was when the movie dropped. I have been saying the SAME thing since the movie dropped. The difference between then and now is that I wasnt going to hold it against them because we had a sequel coming and T'Challa was moving to the next phase of his character arc. Now however, that is no longer the case so yeah. It hurt the character of T'Challa because now they stupidly think they can continue on without him.

I never said the movie was bad, it's a good movie and still my favorite MCU movie... However, for T'Challa himself, where we are at today, it hurt T'Challa because his deal that makes him interesting is that he, in a nation full of xenophobes, decides to open Wakanda for the betterment of his nation and the world. That was taking from him and giving to Nakia who is basically an OC. His intelligence and his achievements from said intelligence have now been given to Shuri, who like Nakia, is basically an OC.

Chad wore multiple hats and a lesser actor would of been swallowed by the star studded cast, but the movie plot hurt T'Challa DESPITE Chad killing it in the role. It's a great movie, but it didn't do T'Challa the justice it should of, and that's why they are pulling the bullisht they are pulling now

[KingNomarch]

In an ideal world there would be a Black Panther animated series that would let him play more with Killmonger. Unfortunately every animated series Marvel has coming up with the exception of X-Men is set in the MCU. Then again there might be hope that if it does happen it won’t be connected to the MCU due to Nate Moore’s 616 comment.

Also with the exception of most Spider-Man cartoons, Marvel for some reason has been doing only ensembles cartoons. T'Challa will likely appear in Avengers cartoons. The closes to a BP animated series that we'll have is BP's Quest which was just season 5 of AA. You could count the motion comic adaption of WitBP. Marvel Studios creating their own animated division is likely why we haven't gotten any news on any new animated series not connected to the MCU. Before the Nate Moore interview, a prequel cartoon focusing on T'Challa's first 8 years as BP before CW would've been cool like the Spider-Man one they announced. But right now the most we can expect from T'Challa is a variant guest appearing in a cartoon or a movie.

Outside the comics, I think T'Challa's future lies in videogames. Fingers crossed that he gets a game set in the same universe as the Spider-Men games and Wolverine or appear in a game set in that universe.

So is it safe to say Akili is the face of the HZ like how Okoye is the face of the Dora’s?

For now but I'd prefer Hunter to come back and lead them, that's when they were their most interesting. Now they're essentially pointless. They're treated as expendable foot soldiers while the Dora went from bodyguards to special forces, leading armies, and whatever other new roles writers choose to give them. They need to go back to being a covert unit. Next time marvel tries to do another side BP book I wouldn't be opposed to it focusing on the HZ. They already tried and failed multiple times with the Dora and Shuri, might as well give the HZ a chance focusing on Akili and a team of HZ, make it an espionage book.

[Ezyo1000]

I'd say yes but it doesn't mean much right now. Due to Coogler the Dora Milaje have essentially taken the all encompassing role of being Wakanda's "special ops team" in the comics. The HZ are directionless and seem to just be a weaker version of the Dora, so the only way to distinguish them is to copy the MCU and have them be spies/infiltrators.

A part of me thinks Ridley may eventually flesh this out. Him using Akili at all and starting off with an espionage story is a good sign that he'll redefine the intelligence aspects of Wakanda's armed forces, which naturally opens up a way for Akili to get some development. He's pretty much T'Challa's only friend at this point so hopefully he doesn't get forgotten.



Stop what? Commenting on they feel about a movie? That's weird and needlessly demanding. If you like the movie like most of us in here do, it shouldn't be a problem to see it get criticized. We criticize literally everything that comes out, from Priest to Hudlin. Coogler isn't special and none of this is meant to bash Chadwick, we would've had these complaints no matter who played T'Challa.

The ignore button is also another option. There is a legitimate complaint to have about the nerfing of T'Challa's intelligence. And the Coates run dying with a whimper and the start of a new era is the perfect time to talk about it.

This. I always find it interesting how people have no issues when we criticize the GOATs here (especially Hudlin now given what s gone of with Storm and Shuri) yet they get up on arms about the criticisms of those who have made some MAJOR mistakes (Coates Coogler) and don't want to hear it.

I liked the movie. I hated T'Challas nerfing of his intelligence and the loss of what literally makes him the character we all know and love. Among a nation of exceptional people, he stands above the rest.

Also yeah Coates run crashed and burned, they delayed it for a long ass time for it to die on a small smoldering wisp. A shitty end to a shitty series

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Coogler is near GOAT status on his medium. What he and Chad accomplished is not to be tainted because of a screwup after his death.
No matter how you cut the sh*t up I'm calling out the slander. Especially people who had no problems months ago let alone before Boseman death.

The sus posts are just that.

The Go along get along gang are popping up to seek validation because T'Challa was a lead in an ensemble instead of a lone standout.

And is it really nerfing of T'Challa's intelligence instead of them just making Shuri OD instead? I swear yall talk about him like he was an idiot at times (NO I know yall aint said that, but thats how it reads sometimes)

Be mad that Shuri is made the smartest in the MCU. Not that T'Challa wasnt a genius. He delegated. He has other ish to focus on.