T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[Devaishwarya]

With the first film being a historical and record-breaking success, it did nothing to really elevate the source material. The BP comics are in the worst shape it's been in in a long time if not ever.
So with the next movie at least and with near future sequels to be made without T'Challa, I firstly don't give a crap about the upcoming BP sequels. If they flop or if they're a success the comics won't benefit in any meaningful way as current evidence shows.

It's not the Movie's place to "elevate" the source material.
The comic book is a failure entirely because the writing is absolute garbage. Because the "writer" deliberately chose not to elevate the comic book.

[Devaishwarya]

A lot of the acclaim is based in "white liberalism" that views black people and Africans from a particular lens. I'm not so sure but it seems ideologically, Coates sort of subscribes to this. They are married to the idea that no matter how successful or modern black people are, they MUST be treated as victims (hence the bullshit like rape camps in Wakanda).

This brand of liberalism puts identity and race to the forefront of every discussion that even when a black writer writes garbage, they defend it on the basis of "race". It's this same brand of liberalism that calls stuff like "WAP" a feminist anthem (it isn't) and are the same people that feel that BP can ONLY be written by a black man.

That's all I will say about that.

Seriously though, I'm ready to move on from Coates stuff. I'm really looking forward to what Redjack will do and I hope that Marvel can give him the book permanently.

Exac-fockin-tatiously...to all of this.

[Chesterfield]

It's not the Movie's place to "elevate" the source material.
The comic book is a failure entirely because the writing is absolute garbage. Because the "writer" deliberately chose not to elevate the comic book.

I didn't say it was. But with their being to some degree a synergy between the MCU and the comics, the expectation is that with the film being such a ground-breaking success the comics would at least take better care with their output but that obviously wasn't the case.

[Redjack]

A lot of the acclaim is based in "white liberalism" that views black people and Africans from a particular lens. I'm not so sure but it seems ideologically, Coates sort of subscribes to this. They are married to the idea that no matter how successful or modern black people are, they MUST be treated as victims (hence the bullshit like rape camps in Wakanda).

This brand of liberalism puts identity and race to the forefront of every discussion that even when a black writer writes garbage, they defend it on the basis of "race". It's this same brand of liberalism that calls stuff like "WAP" a feminist anthem (it isn't) and are the same people that feel that BP can ONLY be written by a black man.

That's all I will say about that.

Seriously though, I'm ready to move on from Coates stuff. I'm really looking forward to what Redjack will do and I hope that Marvel can give him the book permanently.

My name is geoffrey thorne and I endorse this message.

[Devaishwarya]

I didn't say it was. But with their being to some degree a synergy between the MCU and the comics, the expectation is that with the film being such a ground-breaking success the comics would at least take better care with their output but that obviously wasn't the case.

Again...the writer did not do his duty. Synergy or no. The one has very little (absolutely nothing, really) to do with the other, because the comic book writer is not writing the movie, the screen writer is not writing the comic book.

[DigiCom]

I didn't say it was. But with their being to some degree a synergy between the MCU and the comics, the expectation is that with the film being such a ground-breaking success the comics would at least take better care with their output but that obviously wasn't the case.

Marvel Comics has, more or less without exception, utterly failed to capitalize on the success of the MCU. At best, they've grabbed some of the visuals, and at worst, thrown out a bunch of tie-in miniseries based on characters that share the same names as the latest movie IP.

Or do you think it's a coincidence that Taskmaster & bloody Red Guardian somehow got stories?

I've ranted more than once as to WHY it failed, but I think it can be boiled down to three elements:

1) Divergent continuities. A new reader interested in a specific MCU character has no way to get more of the story.
2) An archaic ordering system. The whole pre-order system does not lend itself to the casual shopper.
3) Unclear marketing, especially for the larger franchises. It's often impossible to know where to start.

Contrast this with the My Hero Academia franchise. The comics (manga, for the purists), TV show and movies all share the same continuity. While the latest chapters are only available online, the backstory remains entirely in print. And if a newcomer wants to start at the beginning, all they need to do is but vol 1.

Contrast that with a new young Black Panther fan, who saw & loved the movie and wanted more. He goes to a bookstore and asks for a Black Panther trade.

If he's given the Coates run, the first thing he sees is this:



Or maybe he gets Rise... which uses the comics continuity, so suddenly T'challa's father dies differently.

If he's REALLY lucky, he's pointed at the Priest run... and just has to wonder why T'Challa is bald, but the Dora aren't.

NONE of these continue the story he loved. So it's highly likely he'll just put it back on the shelf.

[Gessela]

A few thoughts on the use of spears.

Be it Black Panther or Star Gate, if a martial arts culture evolved in a linear fashion not identical to our western world, it would be perfectly plausible that there weapons would retain a spear like aesthetic.
Progression: Stick to Staff to Spear to Energy blasting Spear.

Types of warfare/combat, culture, and concealment have shaped the evolution of our western projectile weapons. One could also look at the bayonet rifle as spear as well.

In a futuristic setting, when a standard pistol/rifle runs out of ammo, or malfunctions, it ceases being a weapon. If the energy blasting spear becomes unable to fire, it maintains its use as an effective close combat weapon.

In history and in my own Afro-Futuristic works, blade shapes (swords/knives/spearheads) can be just as important as clothing or hair, for cultural identifiers. I would do the same if tackling an Asian or European based futuristic sci-fi.

Just a few opinions from a creator and martial artist.

[Ezyo1000]

Marvel Comics has, more or less without exception, utterly failed to capitalize on the success of the MCU. At best, they've grabbed some of the visuals, and at worst, thrown out a bunch of tie-in miniseries based on characters that share the same names as the latest movie IP.

Or do you think it's a coincidence that Taskmaster & bloody Red Guardian somehow got stories?

I've ranted more than once as to WHY it failed, but I think it can be boiled down to three elements:

1) Divergent continuities. A new reader interested in a specific MCU character has no way to get more of the story.
2) An archaic ordering system. The whole pre-order system does not lend itself to the casual shopper.
3) Unclear marketing, especially for the larger franchises. It's often impossible to know where to start.

Contrast this with the My Hero Academia franchise. The comics (manga, for the purists), TV show and movies all share the same continuity. While the latest chapters are only available online, the backstory remains entirely in print. And if a newcomer wants to start at the beginning, all they need to do is but vol 1.

Contrast that with a new young Black Panther fan, who saw & loved the movie and wanted more. He goes to a bookstore and asks for a Black Panther trade.

If he's given the Coates run, the first thing he sees is this:



Or maybe he gets Rise... which uses the comics continuity, so suddenly T'challa's father dies differently.

If he's REALLY lucky, he's pointed at the Priest run... and just has to wonder why T'Challa is bald, but the Dora aren't.

NONE of these continue the story he loved. So it's highly likely he'll just put it back on the shelf.

This is true, although the benefit (or sometimes detriment when a good manga ends early) is that all manga are set on their own universe/author's own controlled universe. So MHA will not cross over with say,
Hunter x hunter or one punch man, unless the author's collaborate and agree and even then it's a one shot crossover thats out of continuity.

Compared to marvel and DC who have neverending stories with characters controlled by Marvel/ dc themselves and have constant writer's who's work can be retconned or ignored (for better or for worse) and you have these situations where depending on the Character, you have a nigh impossible tasks ahead of you to figure out where to start, and either way it's not going to be the MCU version.

The only way is if an MCU verse is created for the comics that follows the movies, but then you run into issues of what's canon and what's not.

I think Marvel/ dc should try the manga style a little more. Comics currently cannot afford to have issues not focus on the main character or plot with out heavily slowing down the pace. All of Coates issues feel like redundant wastes of time because he took Away from the story and slowed the plot down to focus on character development that ultimately made it so the ending were rushed due to limited issues allotted for the story.

Now take Avengers no surrender a couple years back. It was 16 issues long and a weekly story, it allowed for quiet moments without detracting too much from the overall plot because we knew that while a particular issue spent time developing a character, we only had to wait a week before the next issue to jump back into the story.

Personally, I would like to see a manga style story for BP. Give us a year long, 48-52~ issue story that's a complete Arc that focuses on his world and development, that means tech, powers, LI, villains allies etc.

[Marvell2100]

A few thoughts on the use of spears.

Be it Black Panther or Star Gate, if a martial arts culture evolved in a linear fashion not identical to our western world, it would be perfectly plausible that there weapons would retain a spear like aesthetic.
Progression: Stick to Staff to Spear to Energy blasting Spear.

Types of warfare/combat, culture, and concealment have shaped the evolution of our western projectile weapons. One could also look at the bayonet rifle as spear as well.

In a futuristic setting, when a standard pistol/rifle runs out of ammo, or malfunctions, it ceases being a weapon. If the energy blasting spear becomes unable to fire, it maintains its use as an effective close combat weapon.

In history and in my own Afro-Futuristic works, blade shapes (swords/knives/spearheads) can be just as important as clothing or hair, for cultural identifiers. I would do the same if tackling an Asian or European based futuristic sci-fi.

Just a few opinions from a creator and martial artist.

Yea, I don't really see an issue with the use of swords, spears, etc. Just because T'Challa use/need them doesn't mean he wouldn't train in the use of them.

Besides, we've seen him create weapons like the energy daggers and bo staff. He's used a sword in Empyre. It's not a bad thing. He doesn't need them but when he uses them he should be proficient.

[nj06]

The KIB preview looks interesting. I hope T'Challa and Storm are portrayed well. The symbiotes seem to be giving T'Challa and Wakanda trouble lately with Knull's invasion here and its conflict with Emperor N'Jadaka/Killmonger in the main title.


The Avengers preview also looks interesting. Aaron does seem to write T'Challa the best out of the team. I wonder if being empowered by the PF will sever his connection with Bast in the same manner it severed Colossus' connection with Cytorak.

[Marvell2100]

The KIB preview looks interesting. I hope T'Challa and Storm are portrayed well. The symbiotes seem to be giving T'Challa and Wakanda trouble lately with Knull's invasion here and its conflict with Emperor N'Jadaka/Killmonger in the main title.


The Avengers preview also looks interesting. Aaron does seem to write T'Challa the best out of the team. I wonder if being empowered by the PF will sever his connection with Bast in the same manner it severed Colossus' connection with Cytorak.

Curios if T'Challa will cut loose with the PF against Namor. He obviously hasn't forgotten what happened.

But I guess he won't since that would mean surrendering himself to the PF and letting it take control.

[Hypestyle]

so has anyone played the Wakanda Forever board game? Is it fun?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahp8tBqfJ3o

[Ekie]

Marvel Comics has, more or less without exception, utterly failed to capitalize on the success of the MCU. At best, they've grabbed some of the visuals, and at worst, thrown out a bunch of tie-in miniseries based on characters that share the same names as the latest movie IP.

Or do you think it's a coincidence that Taskmaster & bloody Red Guardian somehow got stories?

I've ranted more than once as to WHY it failed, but I think it can be boiled down to three elements:

1) Divergent continuities. A new reader interested in a specific MCU character has no way to get more of the story.
2) An archaic ordering system. The whole pre-order system does not lend itself to the casual shopper.
3) Unclear marketing, especially for the larger franchises. It's often impossible to know where to start.

Contrast this with the My Hero Academia franchise. The comics (manga, for the purists), TV show and movies all share the same continuity. While the latest chapters are only available online, the backstory remains entirely in print. And if a newcomer wants to start at the beginning, all they need to do is but vol 1.

Contrast that with a new young Black Panther fan, who saw & loved the movie and wanted more. He goes to a bookstore and asks for a Black Panther trade.

If he's given the Coates run, the first thing he sees is this:



Or maybe he gets Rise... which uses the comics continuity, so suddenly T'challa's father dies differently.

If he's REALLY lucky, he's pointed at the Priest run... and just has to wonder why T'Challa is bald, but the Dora aren't.

NONE of these continue the story he loved. So it's highly likely he'll just put it back on the shelf.

Thank you. This is why continuity is important. This is why its a problem for editors and supposed stewards of this Marvel "universe" and its history to ignore quality in the name of diversity advertising. Thats why this movie will do nothing to advance the longterm aspirations of a Black character finally hitting Batman/Spiderman level fame and importance. Wakanda as a selling point without its history (which is pretty much all Tchalla thanks to marvels poor output historically) ...is not going to break the real glass ceiling. Marvel views it as a cultural social event as proven by their immediate attempt to do the same with ShangChi. And by their willingness to continue a movie without to titular character when exploration of Wakanda would be better served with DisneyPlus. Tchalla's potential is bigger than that of a social event.

[dkrook]

A lot of the acclaim is based in "white liberalism" that views black people and Africans from a particular lens. I'm not so sure but it seems ideologically, Coates sort of subscribes to this. They are married to the idea that no matter how successful or modern black people are, they MUST be treated as victims (hence the bullshit like rape camps in Wakanda).

This brand of liberalism puts identity and race to the forefront of every discussion that even when a black writer writes garbage, they defend it on the basis of "race". It's this same brand of liberalism that calls stuff like "WAP" a feminist anthem (it isn't) and are the same people that feel that BP can ONLY be written by a black man.

That's all I will say about that.

Seriously though, I'm ready to move on from Coates stuff. I'm really looking forward to what Redjack will do and I hope that Marvel can give him the book permanently.

It's a shame that you feel that you can't even be truthful and speak plainly about a very real problem that's prevelant in the culture right now. You're right about racial nuance games being played in so many mediums.

[Ekie]

A few thoughts on the use of spears.

Be it Black Panther or Star Gate, if a martial arts culture evolved in a linear fashion not identical to our western world, it would be perfectly plausible that there weapons would retain a spear like aesthetic.
Progression: Stick to Staff to Spear to Energy blasting Spear.

Types of warfare/combat, culture, and concealment have shaped the evolution of our western projectile weapons. One could also look at the bayonet rifle as spear as well.

In a futuristic setting, when a standard pistol/rifle runs out of ammo, or malfunctions, it ceases being a weapon. If the energy blasting spear becomes unable to fire, it maintains its use as an effective close combat weapon.

In history and in my own Afro-Futuristic works, blade shapes (swords/knives/spearheads) can be just as important as clothing or hair, for cultural identifiers. I would do the same if tackling an Asian or European based futuristic sci-fi.

Just a few opinions from a creator and martial artist.

I have always loved spears. I never understoid the complaints. Yes Wakanda should have very advanced forms of them but we never seem to complain when other cultures proudly portray cultute weaponry. Who doesnt love nunchuku?