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  1. #2251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    What about this one? Remember during the Hudlin run, Wolverine had a solo book and he went to WK and they found fossilized remains of the people all the feline/canine mutants came from. What if we make those the people who imprisoned the originators. But then later they moved on due to drought or something and generations later Romulus is born and creates Rome.
    They gotta get rid of the Native American analogue altogether, shifting the blame to someone else doesn't work for me. Just say Djalia Mother lied to Shuri and Bast pulled a King Fritz, manipulating the minds of both humanity and the Originators to hide the real truth of Wakanda's deep past.

    Instead of being the original inhabitants of the land that would become Wakanda, the Originators were an exiled army of Deviants from ancient Lemuria. They already look the part. The events of Bast's rise happened when Deviants were rulers of the Earth and pillaging humanity. Just say the Originators were banished from their original homeland and wanted to displace Wakanda's ancestors, resulting in the rise of the new Wakandan gods to seal them away.

    After overthrowing the Elder Gods as the main deities of pre-Wakanda's people, Bast and the other Orisha make up the great lie that casts the Originators in a sympathetic light as part of a deal with the demon Damballah, the patron of the Originators. He believes that if the Originators are convinced they had their land stolen they will worship him more as their salvation, in return he agrees to the Orisha's offer never to set foot in Wakanda.

    The Originators are still somewhat sympathetic, the continuity of Coates' story is kept intact, the lore of Wakanda is integrated with pre-Cataclysm MU, we get more context for Bast/Orisha, and T'Challa has a new potential rogue.
    Last edited by chief12d; 02-25-2021 at 08:24 AM.

  2. #2252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Dude is pretty much mailing it in right now.
    And only one person is happy about it and how dare anyone say otherwise.

    What are at least 10 things Coates bought to the franchise (that was NOT there or in canon-like Thunderball being an educated man-we already knew that)?

    What did he do to improve Black Panther. Not STORM. Something that will not get Jedi handwaved by the next writer (who is not fake woke).

    And no brining in rape camps is not one. That is black folks are a monolith thinking. Not all of Africa is rape camps or oppressing women.

    And not mention of a relationship. That nobody cares for.

    No I am not trolling. I am curious at what could HONESTLY rollover to a new book that does not need that other franchise.

  3. #2253
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    You want even more X stuff involved? You absolute mad man


    Can the originators go live with the dinosaurs from McGregor's run?
    I think they retconned that storyline anyway. Lol

    But it's already baked in making it a smooth offramp for a future writer.

    For the empire, if it's not a dream, we can say the crew did crash, but died 2000 years ago. The native inhabitants found them so beautiful and cultured from the ships library, that the elites of their society got plastic surgery to look like Wakandans adopted WK history and started naming themselves and their children after the names in the databases. And they did it for so long they forgot who they use to be.

  4. #2254
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    I think I have a way to solve the problem with the Originators and Coates whole story.



  5. #2255
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I think I have a way to solve the problem with the Originators and Coates whole story.


    That's the ideal way, but its going to tuff to convince Marvel that the entire Coates era(solo, World of Wakanda, Shuri, BP&the Crew and Wakanda Forever) took place in an alternate universe. Lol

    It was a two or three year break between Hudlin and Priest. I don't want to wait that long for them to start asking for reboot retcon pitches.
    Last edited by Cville; 02-25-2021 at 08:41 AM.

  6. #2256
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    I'll try, honestly without too much sarcasm lol

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    And only one person is happy about it and how dare anyone say otherwise.

    What are at least 10 things Coates bought to the franchise (that was NOT there or in canon-like Thunderball being an educated man-we already knew that)?
    1. Aneko/Ayo/new midnight angels and the elimination of the Jabari Tribe
    2. Djalia, although did it just get eliminated lol?
    3. Outsiders and the deep history of Wakanda being colonizers
    4. Knowledge that future Wakandans became colonizers
    5. Force push suit
    6. Shuri as Griot/Sorcery powers
    7. idea of there being more wakandan gods than just Bast/Panther God that BP clan accepts
    8.
    9.
    10.

    I honestly can't think of anymore right now but this has been a LONG 5 years lol

    What did he do to improve Black Panther.
    - Force Push suit, which other writers (not Coates lol) have used decently well at times
    - Midnight Angel armor
    - The new planes are kinda decently cool looking
    - Brought back Okoye. Yes, he was forced by editorial/mcu and he handwaved it and didn't explain it but at least she is back
    - Brought back QDJ and Vibraxas and that one chick I can't remember who does something with light lol
    - Killmonger is alive again (for now)
    - Tetu and Zenzi have potential for future writers
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  7. #2257
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    That's the ideal way, but its going to tuff to convince Marvel that the entire Coates era(solo, World of Wakanda, Shuri, BP&the Crew and Wakanda Forever) took place in an alternate universe. Lol
    Hey, remember when Wakanda was a democracy?
    Or when Storm was a member of The Crew?
    How 'bout that time when Shuri was a magic totem pole?
    I know people remember when they did Coming to America starring Ayo and Aneka?
    And that dead guy that was in the Crew, what was his name?
    And that time when Changemire and Ramona hooked up?

    Lol, I'm sure Marvel will find a way to sweep all this under a Vibranium rug somewhere.

  8. #2258
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Even coates ignores coates so... lol



    No more monarchy... T'challa still acts unilaterally

    no more Doras... why hello Okoye, welcome back

    Where has aneka/ayo been?

    Chang been MIA outside of getting oozed by the symbiote since season 1.

    Shuri basically turned into MCU shuri instead of magic pants shuri.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  9. #2259
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    And only one person is happy about it and how dare anyone say otherwise.

    What are at least 10 things Coates bought to the franchise (that was NOT there or in canon-like Thunderball being an educated man-we already knew that)?

    What did he do to improve Black Panther. Not STORM. Something that will not get Jedi handwaved by the next writer (who is not fake woke).

    And no brining in rape camps is not one. That is black folks are a monolith thinking. Not all of Africa is rape camps or oppressing women.

    And not mention of a relationship. That nobody cares for.

    No I am not trolling. I am curious at what could HONESTLY rollover to a new book that does not need that other franchise.
    Coates brought a bunch of named locations. I actually like that aspect of this run, even if some of the storylines attached to them are trash. Alkama Fields and its contentious history with Niganda, the Hekima Shule as a Wakandan liberal arts school and center of non-monarchial thought. A bunch of Birnins that we don't actually visit lol, but we did see a glimpse of some in that Soul of the Machine mini.

    Obviously Coates gave us the Djalia, which existed to some extent in previous runs but was never named or as prominently used. Coates pushed the idea of pre-Wakandan civilization with Adowa and previous dynasties and he's the guy that explored this conflict between first and second gen Wakandan gods. He also solidified an official pantheon with the Orisha and outlined a collective origin (but Wakandans worship many gods outside them).

    He also introduced the kinetic energy absorption suit which is probably the biggest upgrade the character's gotten since Priest's vibranium weave. Coates may have contributed a decent bit to the rogues gallery. Zenzi, Tetu, maybe he leaves behind a rump state of the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda, the Originators could always go evil again. Future writers will determine how relevant they become going forward. Gave us Kimoyo beads.

    Overall, Coates made an impact on the mythos, like it or not. We already saw elements of his run implemented in the MCU (Djalia, kinetic suit, kimoyo beads). I expect Alkama Fields and the Hekima Shule to appear in the D+ show if they don't show up in the sequel. I don't think that Coates introduced any mythos-defining institutions like the Dora/Hatut Zeraze or supporting characters like Shuri though. The sorcerers of Mujaji are forgettable and Eden, Changamire, Akili, are all nothing characters. I wouldn't be shocked if they make an appearance in the MCU but they're basically blank slates like Okoye was.

    In terms of narrative, I don't see this constitutional monarchy stuff being referenced past this run and the Dora being liberated doesn't seem to matter either. The Jabari will probably be ruled by NuM'Baku or actual at least actual Jabari come the relaunch. So in truth, while this run was bad, most of the stuff we hate can easily be ignored in issue #1 of the next run and the stuff of value can be kept or updated.

  10. #2260
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    I also think the Midnight Angels are real dark horses as it stands in terms of relevance. I think that if the the Wakanda D+ series is indeed centered on the Dora Milaje, Aneka will be introduced, paired with Ayo, and that they'll get some arc approximating their comic counterparts (becoming anti-heroic revolutionaries/rebels). They may not be Coates creations but he obviously did the most with them and outside Okoye they're the most prominent Dora and the most likely BP characters to get the MCU stimulus package. I think they're far more likely to get pushed than Vibraxas or Akili, for example. They may end up being core BP characters in a few years.

    In truth, a lot of Coates' contributions depend on the future of MCU, in particular that D+ show. That'll do more worldbuilding/character exploration than any movie can and if it has multiple seasons there's a good chance we'll see BP characters and concepts through the decades adapted in some form. Whichever writer gets the most of their contributions onto the big and/or small screen can be regarded as having the most impact on the mythos and its presence in pop culture.

  11. #2261
    Ask the Question DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I think I have a way to solve the problem with the Originators and Coates whole story.
    I can do it in two words...

  12. #2262
    Fantastic Member mbeezy561's Avatar
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    I actually liked Season 1 of Coates run ALOT. He introduced new characters, and gave more voices to others. I think where he messed up at is not building on Season 1 in Season 2. Like what happened with the New Republic of Wakanda, what was Changamire up too. How did the Jabari Tribe feel about being led by Ayo and Aneka. What effect did the assassination attempt have on Ramonda's Psych and her attitude towards rebellion. You invested us in these characters and then in Season 2 you just kind of dropped them. The only storyline from Season 1 to 2 that kept building was the Relationship between T'challa and Ororo. That i DID appreciate ALOT.

    Season 2 was a cluttered mess. You didn't find out the "True" villian until the last two issues and it turned out to be some Z-List Xmen Adversary. Tehtu and Zenzi are just kind of there and so is everyone else from season 1 but your not building on or addressing there storylines. And why was Klaw in the storyline? If you're going to do a Klaw story DO IT! Like Joker War or Death of the Family Level

    Then fast forward to Season 3 you just drop them completely until T'challa got back from space. I'm more dissapointed than anything because I felt like after season 1 it was just lazy writing and bad editorial and it kinda watered down what could have been an AMAZING RUN.

    SN: THE REAL MVP FOR WAKANDA LORE IS STEELFREEZE ALOT OF HIS ART WAS IN THE MOVIE!
    After reading Priest's run on Black Panther, I can truly said I've learned nothing, but I remember everything!
    I'm back from the Djailia!
    Since D9 exists in the MU, T'challa is definitely an Alpha! (Don't Debate me)

  13. #2263
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    What was Tchallas big moment?
    Who did he defeat by himself?
    Tchalla feats during this run was pretty lackluster

  14. #2264
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I also think the Midnight Angels are real dark horses as it stands in terms of relevance. I think that if the the Wakanda D+ series is indeed centered on the Dora Milaje, Aneka will be introduced, paired with Ayo, and that they'll get some arc approximating their comic counterparts (becoming anti-heroic revolutionaries/rebels). They may not be Coates creations but he obviously did the most with them and outside Okoye they're the most prominent Dora and the most likely BP characters to get the MCU stimulus package. I think they're far more likely to get pushed than Vibraxas or Akili, for example. They may end up being core BP characters in a few years.

    In truth, a lot of Coates' contributions depend on the future of MCU, in particular that D+ show. That'll do more worldbuilding/character exploration than any movie can and if it has multiple seasons there's a good chance we'll see BP characters and concepts through the decades adapted in some form. Whichever writer gets the most of their contributions onto the big and/or small screen can be regarded as having the most impact on the mythos and its presence in pop culture.
    "No one man" is gonna be hard to do with the "one man" gone though lol?


    The MA armor is 100% coming. And I Aneka/Ayo in someway are 100% coming (I think Aneka is already MCU canon) but I doubt the yare going to be forbiden (god that was dumb) lesbian lovers who revolt for rape camp "no one man" reasons.

    For one... the Doras in the MCU aren't "wives in training" and it was never mentioned in that way, ever. They are just elite woman warriors (and a general) loyal to the throne.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  15. #2265
    Fantastic Member mbeezy561's Avatar
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    And another thing. Okoye just kind of pops back into the story out of nowhere in season 2? She's the most loyal Dora Miljae in the bunch particularly in Priest's run? We NEVER saw her reaction to that crap Ayo and Aneka pulled. And this is Marvel's fault but they even did a book with them traveling together. I could see Okoye not wanting to be anywhere near Aneka and Ayo for what they did. Like you tried to delete an Ancient Wakandan Tradition all because you wanted to save your GF, that in itself should have almost caused a Civil War in the country. You know how many girls probably grew up waiting for there chance to become Dora's how many tribes probably hand selected girls to join that military order? And you just kind of not address it. If anything Okoye should have stepped in and trained all new ones, adn then maybe had the MA's shunned to the Jabari Lands. But they need to definitively bring the Dora's back. Like I get it you don't want them to be sex objects but do what the movie did and show them as the Warriors and Pride of the Nation that they are.
    After reading Priest's run on Black Panther, I can truly said I've learned nothing, but I remember everything!
    I'm back from the Djailia!
    Since D9 exists in the MU, T'challa is definitely an Alpha! (Don't Debate me)

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