T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[CosmiComic]

Never said she would. Just saying she would have been good for the character.

Oh, sorry. I was just thinking out loud. But she could always show up later

[Golden Guardian of Good]

If I didn't start at the beginning of it why on Earth would I start at the end LOL
I've got plenty of other places to read about rape, slavery and misogyny in the real world without having to add flying superheroes to it

And this is why I boycotted Coates run. Wakanda is the most technological advanced nation on Earth but also the richest. No way should there even be slavery, rape, gender inequality or civil war like WTF?

More importantly, as a person who's been to Africa three times(and returning this June), I feel with discussions like this I should offer my real life experiences from visiting three African countries. While I am not African from the continent I still am African-American and do have African relatives through marriage. Moving on, Africa is a continent of 54 countries and yes the majority of the culture/societies on the continent are patriarchal. Now when westerners like Coates see "patriarchal" they automatically see it as bad due to growing up in the western world. Here in the western world patriarchy has been used for oppression. Whereas in Africa it is much more complex. Not no women "not being allowed to vote", or "women should stay in the kitchen" or "women should not be allowed to drive" even. In fact women in most African societies are seen as the "manager" class. What I mean is that they usually handle the business. If you go to the majority of marketplaces in African countries they are handled by WOMEN. Heck its also not surprising Sub-Sahara Africa has the LARGEST amount of FEMALE entrepreneurs.
https://disrupt-africa.com/2017/09/0...hest-in-world/

Yes, there are still some issues like rape in the Democratic Republic of Congo but that's due to instability. I can easily point out stable sub-Saharan African countries like Botswana which is highly developed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRsFT11CxSk

Botswana which also has a HIGH percentage of female entrepreneurs! African patriarchy is not "perfect" but unlike most patriarchies women play a very important and vital part. But back to Botswana... Wakanda would be more like a Botswana than a Democratic Republic of Congo. People like Coates are the same reason Africans did not like Coming to America 2 because of outdated stereotype and projecting western issues on African culture. Coates simply does bot know Africa and its infuriating. He did not do his research.

Anyone wanna pick apart this post?

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Never know how reliable IMDB is at this time, but Ruth Carter isnt listed as returning for the sequel. Instead its Mobolaji Dawodu

[CosmiComic]

Dear God was Coming 2 awful! I barely laughed at all.

Historically Judeo-Christian Eurocentric societies were not especially progressive towards women's rights. Even today in the USA and Canada there are lingering effects of patriarchy. The majority of Native American nations, from what I know, were more egalitarian. I don't know as much about African nations, but I don't think they were as historically sexist, at least generally. But I could be wrong on that. Nevertheless, I don't think any modern African nation is as bad as Saudi Arabia, for instance

[Golden Guardian of Good]

Dear God was Coming 2 awful! I barely laughed at all.

Historically Judeo-Christian Eurocentric societies were not especially progressive towards women's rights. Even today in the USA and Canada there are lingering effects of patriarchy. The majority of Native American nations, from what I know, were more egalitarian. I don't know as much about African nations, but I don't think they were as historically sexist, at least generally. But I could be wrong on that. Nevertheless, I don't think any modern African nation is as bad as Saudi Arabia, for instance

Patriarchy still exists in America. But yes, Eurocentric societies were never progressive towards women's rights. With Africa, like I said its not perfect but its not Black/White like with the West. But lets use the Mali Empire under Mansa Musa for example. Mali Empire which is the CLOSEST thing Africa came to a "Wakanda." Mali Empire was a MUSLIM African empire and one of the most successful in African history. Mansa Musa(you may have heard of him) is the richest man that ever lived. During Mali's height the area of West Africa controlled 2/3rds of the world's supply of gold! Yes you heard that. Anyways here is how women were treated in MUSLIM Mali compared to non-African Muslim societies. Here is what Berber explorer Ibn Battuta had to say:

The Massufa were devout Muslims who said their prayers, learned the law, and memorized the Qu'ran. But their women were "not modest in the presence of men" and did not wear a veil. Although people married, "but the women do not travel with the husband, and if one of them wanted to do that, she would be prevented by her family." Each was free to take other sexual partners from outside the "prohibited degrees of marriage" [father, brother, son, etc.]. "One of them would enter his house to find his wife with her companion and would not disapprove of that conduct."

At first Battuta wanted to leave immediately with a group of pilgrims from Walata, but then decided to remain and visit the Mali capital. Battuta ultimately spent about 50 days in Walata, and left this description of the town: "The town of Iwalatan is very hot and there are in it a few small date palms in whose shade they plant melons. They obtain water from the ground which exudes it. Mutton is obtainable in quantity there. The clothes of its people are of fine Egyptian material. Most of the inhabitants belong to the Massufa, and as for their women--they are extremely beautiful and are more important than the men."

As you can see Battuta being an outside Muslim was shocked. In Mali Muslim women did not need to wear a veil/hijab, can travel without a man, they could also teach, own land and many other things. We did not see this in Arab cultures at the time and not even Europe! And again this is MUSLIM Mali.... Even today, most Muslim African countries(outside of Somalia, Chad, Sudan, or Niger) or countries in Africa that have big muslim population you will notice that the muslim women don't even wear hijabs and have lots of freedoms. Lastly I'll end this post of what colonizers saw firsts hand when it came to gender relations during pre-colonization Africa.





All in all for a guy that calls himself to be Black conscious Coates did not do his research. And the third screenshot in fact argues that colonization bought western style oppression of women to Africa! Wakanda.... Which was not colonized.

Edit:

Here is a video that summarizes Mali's gender role for those who prefer to watch animated videos.

[Username taken]

And this is why I boycotted Coates run. Wakanda is the most technological advanced nation on Earth but also the richest. No way should there even be slavery, rape, gender inequality or civil war like WTF?

More importantly, as a person who's been to Africa three times(and returning this June), I feel with discussions like this I should offer my real life experiences from visiting three African countries. While I am not African from the continent I still am African-American and do have African relatives through marriage. Moving on, Africa is a continent of 54 countries and yes the majority of the culture/societies on the continent are patriarchal. Now when westerners like Coates see "patriarchal" they automatically see it as bad due to growing up in the western world. Here in the western world patriarchy has been used for oppression. Whereas in Africa it is much more complex. Not no women "not being allowed to vote", or "women should stay in the kitchen" or "women should not be allowed to drive" even. In fact women in most African societies are seen as the "manager" class. What I mean is that they usually handle the business. If you go to the majority of marketplaces in African countries they are handled by WOMEN. Heck its also not surprising Sub-Sahara Africa has the LARGEST amount of FEMALE entrepreneurs.
https://disrupt-africa.com/2017/09/0...hest-in-world/

Yes, there are still some issues like rape in the Democratic Republic of Congo but that's due to instability. I can easily point out stable sub-Saharan African countries like Botswana which is highly developed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRsFT11CxSk

Botswana which also has a HIGH percentage of female entrepreneurs! African patriarchy is not "perfect" but unlike most patriarchies women play a very important and vital part. But back to Botswana... Wakanda would be more like a Botswana than a Democratic Republic of Congo. People like Coates are the same reason Africans did not like Coming to America 2 because of outdated stereotype and projecting western issues on African culture. Coates simply does bot know Africa and its infuriating. He did not do his research.

Anyone wanna pick apart this post?

I absolutely agree with this and this has been one of my major critiques of Coates run.

He’s running with the neoliberal view of Africa that ignores so much about the actual continent. He chose to bring in real life strife and issues into the run which is curious because a large number of African countries are not dealing with these issues. Ghana for example has an explicitly matriarchal culture and is one of the largest economies in West Africa. Heck, there’s even evidence that the women of Congo developed mathematical systems before colonialism.

Wakanda should NEVER have dealt with issues like rape camps and the likes considering how developed it is. A lot of conflict in Africa has arisen due to the colonial “scramble for the continent”, Wakanda was NEVER colonized so such things should have been alien to them.

Coates allowed his own personal politics get in the way of telling the story. But if he did a lot more research on the African continent (and focused less on white supremacy and the after effect of colonialism) he wouldn’t have written the ridiculous stories he wrote.

[Besouro]

And this is why I boycotted Coates run. Wakanda is the most technological advanced nation on Earth but also the richest. No way should there even be slavery, rape, gender inequality or civil war like WTF?

More importantly, as a person who's been to Africa three times(and returning this June), I feel with discussions like this I should offer my real life experiences from visiting three African countries. While I am not African from the continent I still am African-American and do have African relatives through marriage. Moving on, Africa is a continent of 54 countries and yes the majority of the culture/societies on the continent are patriarchal. Now when westerners like Coates see "patriarchal" they automatically see it as bad due to growing up in the western world. Here in the western world patriarchy has been used for oppression. Whereas in Africa it is much more complex. Not no women "not being allowed to vote", or "women should stay in the kitchen" or "women should not be allowed to drive" even. In fact women in most African societies are seen as the "manager" class. What I mean is that they usually handle the business. If you go to the majority of marketplaces in African countries they are handled by WOMEN. Heck its also not surprising Sub-Sahara Africa has the LARGEST amount of FEMALE entrepreneurs.
https://disrupt-africa.com/2017/09/0...hest-in-world/

Yes, there are still some issues like rape in the Democratic Republic of Congo but that's due to instability. I can easily point out stable sub-Saharan African countries like Botswana which is highly developed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRsFT11CxSk

Botswana which also has a HIGH percentage of female entrepreneurs! African patriarchy is not "perfect" but unlike most patriarchies women play a very important and vital part. But back to Botswana... Wakanda would be more like a Botswana than a Democratic Republic of Congo. People like Coates are the same reason Africans did not like Coming to America 2 because of outdated stereotype and projecting western issues on African culture. Coates simply does bot know Africa and its infuriating. He did not do his research.

Anyone wanna pick apart this post?

Much appreciated and great applause.

Many forget that Africa also had Queens would led armies into battle like Queen Nzingha, Queen Aminatu, Queen Kandake, etc.

IIs there some misogyny in some African cultures....yes!

For instance, there is a tribe that "circumcise" women but they are like 2 or three tribes on a countinent of 1,000s of tribes so it can not and should not be used as representation of an entire continent.

[Besouro]

I absolutely agree with this and this has been one of my major critiques of Coates run.

He’s running with the neoliberal view of Africa that ignores so much about the actual continent. He chose to bring in real life strife and issues into the run which is curious because a large number of African countries are not dealing with these issues. Ghana for example has an explicitly matriarchal culture and is one of the largest economies in West Africa. Heck, there’s even evidence that the women of Congo developed mathematical systems before colonialism.

Wakanda should NEVER have dealt with issues like rape camps and the likes considering how developed it is. A lot of conflict in Africa has arisen due to the colonial “scramble for the continent”, Wakanda was NEVER colonized so such things should have been alien to them.

Coates allowed his own personal politics get in the way of telling the story. But if he did a lot more research on the African continent (and focused less on white supremacy and the after effect of colonialism) he wouldn’t have written the ridiculous stories he wrote.

Agreed and co-signed!!!

If TNC was Soo gung-ho to write about rape camps and slavery he should have places such nonsense in other African countries and used Wakanda as liberators trying to resolve those issues in other African formerly colonized African countries trying to wrestle with the "colonial mentality" (y'all should read on this) of those countries without being racist to former colonizers (some readers claim Hudlin struggled with this last part).

[Golden Guardian of Good]

I absolutely agree with this and this has been one of my major critiques of Coates run.

He’s running with the neoliberal view of Africa that ignores so much about the actual continent. He chose to bring in real life strife and issues into the run which is curious because a large number of African countries are not dealing with these issues. Ghana for example has an explicitly matriarchal culture and is one of the largest economies in West Africa. Heck, there’s even evidence that the women of Congo developed mathematical systems before colonialism.

Wakanda should NEVER have dealt with issues like rape camps and the likes considering how developed it is. A lot of conflict in Africa has arisen due to the colonial “scramble for the continent”, Wakanda was NEVER colonized so such things should have been alien to them.

Coates allowed his own personal politics get in the way of telling the story. But if he did a lot more research on the African continent (and focused less on white supremacy and the after effect of colonialism) he wouldn’t have written the ridiculous stories he wrote.

Thanks!


I wouldn't exactly say Ghanaian culture is matriarchal but... Fact is women in Ghana culture from what I notice have lots of power. And fact is throughout African history you have women in power positions like Queen Nzinga more so than in early western culture. And agreed with the bolded. Like I said Coates is projecting naïve western thought onto Wakanda. And YES!!! I been saying he allowed his own personal politics to get in the way!

If anything Coates could have written how progressive Wakanda is.

[Ezyo1000]

And this is why I boycotted Coates run. Wakanda is the most technological advanced nation on Earth but also the richest. No way should there even be slavery, rape, gender inequality or civil war like WTF?

More importantly, as a person who's been to Africa three times(and returning this June), I feel with discussions like this I should offer my real life experiences from visiting three African countries. While I am not African from the continent I still am African-American and do have African relatives through marriage. Moving on, Africa is a continent of 54 countries and yes the majority of the culture/societies on the continent are patriarchal. Now when westerners like Coates see "patriarchal" they automatically see it as bad due to growing up in the western world. Here in the western world patriarchy has been used for oppression. Whereas in Africa it is much more complex. Not no women "not being allowed to vote", or "women should stay in the kitchen" or "women should not be allowed to drive" even. In fact women in most African societies are seen as the "manager" class. What I mean is that they usually handle the business. If you go to the majority of marketplaces in African countries they are handled by WOMEN. Heck its also not surprising Sub-Sahara Africa has the LARGEST amount of FEMALE entrepreneurs.
https://disrupt-africa.com/2017/09/0...hest-in-world/

Yes, there are still some issues like rape in the Democratic Republic of Congo but that's due to instability. I can easily point out stable sub-Saharan African countries like Botswana which is highly developed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRsFT11CxSk

Botswana which also has a HIGH percentage of female entrepreneurs! African patriarchy is not "perfect" but unlike most patriarchies women play a very important and vital part. But back to Botswana... Wakanda would be more like a Botswana than a Democratic Republic of Congo. People like Coates are the same reason Africans did not like Coming to America 2 because of outdated stereotype and projecting western issues on African culture. Coates simply does bot know Africa and its infuriating. He did not do his research.

Anyone wanna pick apart this post?

See, this is the Africa people aren't seeing, they don't want to show this africa, one that has Black Kings with their equally important black queens. Black excellence, men and women working together and succeeding together. This right here as well as your other post, should be the very embodiment of Wakanda (which it is, WK has always shown women in high positions of power through out publication history) the fact that Coates didn't do any research at all other then picking out a few African names here and there. Shows the complete lack of understanding of Wakanda and what it represents

[CosmiComic]

I think there are other nations that could have been used to deal with these problems. It could have still been shown in BP comics, but not actually in Wakanda

I think it's fair to want to discuss the problems in African nations, as well as others, but the good should be shown alongside the bad, to give everyone a complete picture, and not stereotype African nations as entirely problematic

[butterflykyss]

I absolutely agree with this and this has been one of my major critiques of Coates run.

He’s running with the neoliberal view of Africa that ignores so much about the actual continent. He chose to bring in real life strife and issues into the run which is curious because a large number of African countries are not dealing with these issues. Ghana for example has an explicitly matriarchal culture and is one of the largest economies in West Africa. Heck, there’s even evidence that the women of Congo developed mathematical systems before colonialism.

Wakanda should NEVER have dealt with issues like rape camps and the likes considering how developed it is. A lot of conflict in Africa has arisen due to the colonial “scramble for the continent”, Wakanda was NEVER colonized so such things should have been alien to them.

Coates allowed his own personal politics get in the way of telling the story. But if he did a lot more research on the African continent (and focused less on white supremacy and the after effect of colonialism) he wouldn’t have written the ridiculous stories he wrote.

is Ghana the outlier or the rule as it pertains to the idea of gender roles within the continent?

[MindofShadow]

Damn. Not use to seeing a bad BP film take from you. Usually its just you missing nuances in Coates stuff,lol jk..

Everyone changed except Nakia and Shuri. Which its not really expected that EVERY character has some huge arc. However, others did its just subtle.

W'Kabi did evolve. Although you could add that removing the deleted scene didnt help. He didnt put down his weapon because Okoye said so, but because he saw black men and women killing each other. He decided at that moment that he wouldn't let his grief completely corrupt him like Killmonger.

Okoye's was turning on Killmonger. While a technicality with the challenge she found her reason to rebel.

I actually wasn't criticizing. Support is support, they don't need arcs. T'challa was central toth eplot with Killmonger as his fodder and dark mirror. All the others played their role

And I don't agree with this.

W'kabi started the movie wanted to keep people out and expand the borders. He ended the movie wanting to keep people out and expand the borders.

Okoye started the movie being loyal to hte throne and the throne only. She ended the movie caring about the throne and Wakanda only. She did not want to take Ross back bc it threatened Wakanda. She only attacked Killmonger when T'challa was seen as still alive and thus still the king and killmonger didn't want ot play within the Wakandan rules anymore. She was fine with doing her duty, which included open war, until rules were broken. She said she would kill W'kabi for Wakanda. She did not evolve at all.

Killmonger didn't change an ounce. He was rage until the very minute of his death. Shuri didn't change. Nakia didn't change. Zuri got murked.

[MindofShadow]

is Ghana the outlier or the rule as it pertains to the idea of gender roles within the continent?

TBF, regardless of this answer... Wakanda is an outlier completely. It doesn't really matter what the rest of the region is doing.

Just because some countries in Africa suck ass, doesn't mean all should have those same terrible qualities.

They don't use Texas stereotypes for NYC.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Watching Zemo on F&WS makes me wish they didnt kill Klaue off. Even though it made total sense story wise and helped ground the movie.