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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Oh yeah, that. I remember some drivel about how they couldn't afford to make side tier tie ins about characters not as impactful to the main characters. Yet here we are getting all kinds minor characters getting books low key subplots. And ONE whole Black Panther one shot. I guess its, Happy Kwanzaa and shut ya mouth!?
    We have an event starring Knull. We can't get more minor than that.

    Then why delay the book for almost a year? Then delay it again as we get closer to February? I mean maybe they were trying to catch some Black history month hype but why the second time?
    I would suspect looking at what your competition is doing might play a part in it.

    Remember Cyborg? His first ongoing did not come out when New 52 started. Instead it was DOOMED Static, Jason Rusch, Batwing and Mr Terrific. Marvel tossed out Miles Morales.
    His ongoing came out AFTER every other POC (mainly black) at Marvel had stopped. In fact I think the only POC lead books out at that time was Spawn, Rivers of London and Savage Dragon.
    Cyborg numbers did fine until Panther, Miles, Sam and others of color started getting books out.
    Then came Rebirth. He had a book that was above 20K until issue 6. Around the time the gators and others went all after Marvel for using POC as leads. It got worst as other companies started tossing out POC led books that got attention.

    If you are trying to get all the attention (and sales)-Marvel thinks waiting will work. The thing is you don't know what will catch on.
    See Future Slate New Batman. For as MUCH crying over a black Batman-it's selling and now we got a digital series. Redjack's Vixen and Green Lantern are on the way. Bitter Root, Killadelphia, Excellence, Farmhands, Far Sector and so on.

    Marvel should have tossed it out when they gave EVERYTHING Black Panther away on digital media. So someone could stomach Coates run and be caught up and MAYBE buy those issues since they got all the rest for free.

  2. #482
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Honestly? No clue. Maybe they thought that the book wouldn't sell well enough while stores were still closed? Maybe the artist is a lazy bastard? Maybe Coates has photos of CB Cebulski in a gothic lolita outfit? I still don't understand why they didn't just dump the issues to digital and cut their losses.
    It's just Strange to me. There's gotta be a reason.bjt would be nice if it was because they were setting him straight

    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    I've been thinking more about what some of the posters said on here in conversation with Redjack. Why can't we have the various levels of military have lite to heavy tech tactical armor? I get the nod to traditional garb, but the loincloth is flat out dumb. I'm just ready to see what used to be the reason Wakanda was so feared.
    I have always been of the mindset that Wakandan soldiers should be walking tanks. Essentially heavy vibranium armor with shields. Its bulker but doesn't slow them down terribly at all. Hz wear medium plated armor (like a microwave with reinforced plates on the chest shoulders and legs) that's light weight for easy maneuverability. Abd DM who wear lightweight armor (what they wear in the movie, it's microweave) since they are protecting the loyal family and less on the front lines or going overseas for missions, their light armor provides enough protection for what they're role is.

    Light mechs would be larger panther size mechs fast moving weapons of destruction, like the cat from transformers 2, medium prowlers are hulk buster size they are essentially tanks then doomsday panthers are the largest these are in case of emergency. Then finally the Panther Gundam, another in case of emergency type the largest two are only for the most dire situations due to their side and firepower

  3. #483
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    so I think the King in Black: BP book could be really good. I'm gonna be optimistic for now. Seeing Storm in BP stuff still gives me PTSD though (I still have that unfinished BP & Storm tribute I abandoned once AvX dropped somewhere, probably on one of my old harddrives).

    Also do y'all think it's an editorial decision to make Wakanda more like the films? We got the blaster spears. It looks like the Wakandan warriors have some nanotech armor they can equip which is a very nice touch.

    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...anther-preview

    but where the mechs at? Does Wakanda not use mechs anymore? Not Hickman, not Coates or anybody else since Priest. Sure we got a Hulkbuster, but thats not what I'm talking about. When we gonna see those big Panther mechs again or flying battle drones?
    interesting question...

    heh heh

    hah HA

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    I've been thinking more about what some of the posters said on here in conversation with Redjack. Why can't we have the various levels of military have lite to heavy tech tactical armor? I get the nod to traditional garb, but the loincloth is flat out dumb. I'm just ready to see what used to be the reason Wakanda was so feared.
    People tend to have a very limited understanding of traditional African warfare and think the best way to show a futuristic version of it is just giving dudes in loincloths energy spears. I'm sure Redjack has some great tech in store for us and that there's a reason the soldiers look like that, but for most other creators they have a hard time imagining "future" and "Africa" in the same sentence. It's been like that since the inception of Wakanda as a concept. Sad but true, and the movie unfortunately doubled down on that so it won't change unless the MCU shows us more.

  5. #485
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    People tend to have a very limited understanding of traditional African warfare and think the best way to show a futuristic version of it is just giving dudes in loincloths energy spears. I'm sure Redjack has some great tech in store for us and that there's a reason the soldiers look like that, but for most other creators they have a hard time imagining "future" and "Africa" in the same sentence. It's been like that since the inception of Wakanda as a concept. Sad but true, and the movie unfortunately doubled down on that so it won't change unless the MCU shows us more.
    Agree with you 100%, and more to the point. I'm really starting to go back over the movie with a slightly different perspective and I do wonder if there were some cracks made into the over all mythos of T'Challa and Black Panther. Why the heck is BP in such an odd place right now the movies and especially the comics! He the only top level hero that's struggling with who he is and his importance to Marvel.

  6. #486
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Agree with you 100%, and more to the point. I'm really starting to go back over the movie with a slightly different perspective and I do wonder if there were some cracks made into the over all mythos of T'Challa and Black Panther. Why the heck is BP in such an odd place right now the movies and especially the comics! He the only top level hero that's struggling with who he is and his importance to Marvel.
    In my opinion its because the top ppl at marvel dont care about the chatacter or his story. They dont care to steward over the lore like with other character. They dint care about the history only whether or not they are meeting diversity needs. All of the ppl they allow to handle the chatacter seem to have free range to recton, ignore, or completely redirect the mythos.
    Plus them letting unfans of Tchalla make directional decisions. T'challa isn't for everyone certainly isn't for every black man when it comes to chosing who your favorite character type is. The writers/directors like the blackness but not his type of it. Marvel doesn't seem to have the balls to tell them no. Which is probably why we're about to get Black Panther 2: The Warriors three edition.

    We keep getting interviews from these people like Coates and coogler who admit to not even liking the character all that much or understanding the character yet the doesn't seem to stop Marvel from letting them handle that characters franchise. Image what we could get from a writer who actually appreciates the characters history and wants to build upon it with their own flair rather than try to make it something of their own.
    Last edited by Ekie; 01-16-2021 at 07:21 PM.

  7. #487
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    watch.


    .............

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Agree with you 100%, and more to the point. I'm really starting to go back over the movie with a slightly different perspective and I do wonder if there were some cracks made into the over all mythos of T'Challa and Black Panther. Why the heck is BP in such an odd place right now the movies and especially the comics! He the only top level hero that's struggling with who he is and his importance to Marvel.
    Well in terms of the military stuff in the MCU, lots of black people have the same "noble savage" trope of Africans that some white people do and project that onto Wakanda in similar ways. It's no surprise Coogler and the other black creators on board had it so Wakandan soldiers are using energy spears, especially since they're just pulling on what was already in the comics for decades lol.

    But as a whole, the film putting the franchise on the platform it did heavily outweighs whatever complicating elements it introduced. Sure, I still dislike that T'Challa isn't seen by the masses as a super-genius. I'm irked that we got a story where T'Challa was characterized as more of a cypher for Wakandan policy changes and wasn't shown as his comic accurate self. I dislike that the image of Wakandan soldiers using spears as their primary weapon is now mainstream.

    But the fact is T'Challa and his world are mainstream now and I can actually care about how the franchise is perceived by millions of people. And the movie forced some changes in the mythos that needed to happen, like making the comics build a consistent supporting cast and elevating T'Challa's power levels. So while I'm reasonably certain T'Challa's chances of becoming A-list are dead for a generation, there is no denying the profitability and cultural significance of the mythos he was the face of and will continue to lead in the comics. At this point I just want the sequels to not flop and for T'Challa to get good showings in the only medium he'll be getting focus in so when it comes his time to shine again Marvel gets it right.

  9. #489
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    With the first film being a historical and record-breaking success, it did nothing to really elevate the source material. The BP comics are in the worst shape it's been in in a long time if not ever.
    So with the next movie at least and with near future sequels to be made without T'Challa, I firstly don't give a crap about the upcoming BP sequels. If they flop or if they're a success the comics won't benefit in any meaningful way as current evidence shows.

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Well in terms of the military stuff in the MCU, lots of black people have the same "noble savage" trope of Africans that some white people do and project that onto Wakanda in similar ways. It's no surprise Coogler and the other black creators on board had it so Wakandan soldiers are using energy spears, especially since they're just pulling on what was already in the comics for decades lol.

    But as a whole, the film putting the franchise on the platform it did heavily outweighs whatever complicating elements it introduced. Sure, I still dislike that T'Challa isn't seen by the masses as a super-genius. I'm irked that we got a story where T'Challa was characterized as more of a cypher for Wakandan policy changes and wasn't shown as his comic accurate self. I dislike that the image of Wakandan soldiers using spears as their primary weapon is now mainstream.

    But the fact is T'Challa and his world are mainstream now and I can actually care about how the franchise is perceived by millions of people. And the movie forced some changes in the mythos that needed to happen, like making the comics build a consistent supporting cast and elevating T'Challa's power levels. So while I'm reasonably certain T'Challa's chances of becoming A-list are dead for a generation, there is no denying the profitability and cultural significance of the mythos he was the face of and will continue to lead in the comics. At this point I just want the sequels to not flop and for T'Challa to get good showings in the only medium he'll be getting focus in so when it comes his time to shine again Marvel gets it right.
    The Sonic spears I'm actually okay with. BUT, I wish we saw more from Wakandans other then Sonic spears, Shuris blasters and otherwise melee weapons (aircrafts excluded). Klaue tells Ross that his cybernetic hand was made from a Wakandan mining tool that he adjusted to made it work how it does in the movie, but still his weapon doesn't even touch what other technology Wakanda has... Yet we don't SEE that other tech. Unless he was referring to the non direct combat stuff like kimoyo beads and sand tables.

    Basically superhero movies like slugfests which means that places like Wakanda kinda get the short end of the stick. While we should see battles similar to the clone wars (melee, range, mechs, dogfights etc) we just get melee fights and it doesn't do then enough justice. At the very least, they should of went the rwby route and had the melee weapons able to transform into essentially gunblades
    [IMG]https://cdna.**********.com/p/assets/images/images/015/358/804/small/guillaume-bolis-spear1.jpg?1548053910[/IMG]

    I will agree I wish T'Challas super genius was more concrete and established rather then mostly hinted at. There's a thousands ways it could of been made clear while Shuri is still shown as the lab rat.

    T'Challa being the cypher kinda bothers me a little but not too much because of what he was dealing with. Sure, he could of been more willing to make the changes and Nakia could of been shown instead of pushing for Wakanda to open up, just expressing that as a spy she has seen so much suffering and wishes she could do more.

    This leads to T'Challa being the one to offer the solution of opening Wakanda more, which is met with resistance from W'kabi. It still would of hit hard and hit home when he meets Erik and his speech to his father and ancestors.

    I'm still not fully given up on the idea that T'Challa is going to be gone forever. It just doesn't make practical sense to dump a character that been around for 50 years and what, replace him with characters who have been around barely a decade and a half? Or the franchise just fades Into the background? Sure Disney can't think this will work to any great success. Especially since the franchise in the MCU is still in its infancy stage


  11. #491
    Thinking the Unthinkable DigiCom's Avatar
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    I think it may still be a bit premature to bemoan the death of the franchise, even if things are in flux. Even if Coogler didn't portray T'Challa in the manner I prefer, he and Chadwck still created a character that resonated with people strongly. Can he do it again? It's certainly possible. All I know is that I'm not nearly a good enough writer to second-guess him, even now.

    (I'm good enough to call the Coates run sheer hackery, tho. )

    We simply don't KNOW what will happen. Everyone is taking crumbs of data and trying to recreate the whole cake, and then complaining that it doesn't taste right.

  12. #492
    Incredible Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    so I think the King in Black: BP book could be really good. I'm gonna be optimistic for now. Seeing Storm in BP stuff still gives me PTSD though (I still have that unfinished BP & Storm tribute I abandoned once AvX dropped somewhere, probably on one of my old harddrives).

    Also do y'all think it's an editorial decision to make Wakanda more like the films? We got the blaster spears. It looks like the Wakandan warriors have some nanotech armor they can equip which is a very nice touch.

    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...anther-preview

    but where the mechs at? Does Wakanda not use mechs anymore? Not Hickman, not Coates or anybody else since Priest. Sure we got a Hulkbuster, but thats not what I'm talking about. When we gonna see those big Panther mechs again or flying battle drones?
    Just want a Storm free BP book 😑

  13. #493
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    Just want a Storm free BP book 😑
    Trust.

    Seriously.

    Trust.

  14. #494

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    The acclaim this book has gotten is mostly limited to bullshit comic sites and social media from what I've seen. Sales indicate that since the end of a Nation Under Our Feet, Coates' run has been an average seller at best to an utter failure commercially. In fact weren't most of the sales for the first "season" due to high first issue sales?

    Coates only gets hype because of a little worldbuilding (Djalia, "developing" the Dora, giving us named Wakandan regions) and there being a large portion of "fans" that hate Hudlin's run and prop up Coates as an alternative. It's aesthetic is also the inspiration behind aspects of the BP film like the Kimoyo Beads and kinetic suit. Regardless of its critical reception among certain groups or its design influence on the MCU, this run has been forcefully repudiated by fans sales-wise and virtually every spin-off that followed Coates' direction failed spectacularly.

    A lot of the acclaim is based in "white liberalism" that views black people and Africans from a particular lens. I'm not so sure but it seems ideologically, Coates sort of subscribes to this. They are married to the idea that no matter how successful or modern black people are, they MUST be treated as victims (hence the bullshit like rape camps in Wakanda).

    This brand of liberalism puts identity and race to the forefront of every discussion that even when a black writer writes garbage, they defend it on the basis of "race". It's this same brand of liberalism that calls stuff like "WAP" a feminist anthem (it isn't) and are the same people that feel that BP can ONLY be written by a black man.

    That's all I will say about that.

    Seriously though, I'm ready to move on from Coates stuff. I'm really looking forward to what Redjack will do and I hope that Marvel can give him the book permanently.
    Last edited by Username taken; 01-17-2021 at 11:50 AM.
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