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  1. #5101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Wakanda doesn't export ideas or force it upon people though.
    I was thinking more that T'Challa would try to use diplomacy to spread some Wakandan ideals to other countries, so they'd be less likely to become Wakanda's enemies

  2. #5102
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Out of curiosity

    Do you guys like "boring name" tribes like Mining, River, Merchant, Border, Jabari

    or "cool name" tribes like Crocodile, Lion, Hyena, Panther, White Gorialla, ect


    I was in no one bias calling one cool name and one boring name lol
    I don't personally find Jabari to be boring. I'm fine with White Gorilla and Jabari used interchangeably. But I do think "River" and "Border" are pretty dull. I'm sure the pan-African translations that are common in Wakanda (i.e., translating to random African languages without any real consistency) is problematic, but I like the idea of choosing a tribal name that isn't just an English word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    Have we ever talked about the BET hudlin Black Panther cartoon? Other than the animation style what is everyone's thoughts on it?
    Absolutely kick-ass theme song.

    It's a very faithful adaptation of Hudlin's first arc. I thought it did a great job, but I wish it had continued past that since there's some obvious cliffhangers. That being said, the main cliffhanger was the Cannibal and, frankly, I don't recall that having a satisfactory ending in the comics either.
    Last edited by Mike_Murdock; 05-01-2021 at 06:28 AM.
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  3. #5103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    a new Wakandan to the mythos, Marvels #1




    Alright, time to ship this chick with T'challa right? lol
    You know it lol jk need to see her with out the helmet 1st lol

  4. #5104
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    My ideal Black Panther Family is:

    TíChalla: visionary warrior-shaman and king of Wakanda. Greatest H2H fighter in the kingdom and a master strategist dedicated to turning Wakanda into a force for good in the world while keeping his people safe.

    Shuri: the forward-looking greatest mind in Wakanda. A techno-spiritualist who fuses her ties to the ancestral energies found in the natural world with nanotechnology (alchemy). Head Engineer of the Wakandan Design Group

    Okoye: TíChallaís de facto second-in-command in the field, general of the Dora Milaje (kingsguard). A traditionalist uneasy with TíChallaís reforms who nonetheless follows his lead while keeping his affairs in order (like Alfred)

    MíBaku: chieftain of the Jabari Tribe and head of the White Gorilla Cult, a staunch traditionalist trapped between his alliance with the throne, the radicalism of his people, and the yearnings of his god. A frenemy.

    Kasper/Akili: the personal bounty hunter and infiltrator of the king. Head of the Hatut Zeraze, the intelligence branch of the Wakandan military, a younger brother figure for TíChalla and has a respect for the outside world

    Monica Lynne: American songstress turned humanitarian, a globe trotting celebrity whoís drifted in and out of TíChallaís life. Media savvy and well versed in Wakandan law she is a valued ďheartĒ/adviser for her lover

    Ramonda: Queen Mother of Wakanda, a South African activist who has become a bit of an Olenna Tyrell type, dedicated to the preservation of her children. Another emotional support for TíChalla

    Zawavari/Zuri: a worshipper of the Old (Elder) Gods, an immortal recently instated as court wizard who advises TíChalla on mystical matters. More than a few skeletons in his closet and slowly growing to respect TíChalla as king

    I donít really see what else you need besides that. TíChalla is the lead, Okoye, Shuri, Monica, MíBaku are primary supporting cast. Kasper, Ramonda, Zawavari are extended cast that get focus every now and then and fill out the pages. Maybe throw in a Catwoman style love interest of your choosing and a random character like WíKabi in a civilian role to get to 10 characters in total. But overall I think that covers all the bases for me. Oh and have TíChalla resurrect Preyy as his pet lol.
    I respect all the characters on this list but Lynn sounds like the very definitive definition on a perpetual damsel in distress....give her superpowers either as an Inhuman, a non-Xmen affiliated mutant, a latent Eternal, a super-skrull, last descendant of some ancient cosmic being, whatever as long as she brings more to BP mythos beyond just being Tchalla's sperm recipient,screaming and crying and quivering and being utterly helpless and non-contributive in any practical way.

  5. #5105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I don't personally find Jabari to be boring. I'm fine with White Gorilla and Jabari used interchangeably. But I do think "River" and "Border" are pretty dull. I'm sure the pan-African translations that are common in Wakanda (i.e., translating to random African languages without any real consistency) is problematic, but I like the idea of choosing a tribal name that isn't just an English word.



    Absolutely kick-ass theme song.

    It's a very faithful adaptation of Hudlin's first arc. I thought it did a great job, but I wish it had continued past that since there's some obvious cliffhangers. That being said, the main cliffhanger was the Cannibal and, frankly, I don't recall that having a satisfactory ending in the comics either.
    All of this......agreed and co-signed!!!

  6. #5106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    I Agree. Hunter adds to the mythos
    Not really....I am more interested in the 1st born son/Tchalla's the elder brother who was killed during an assasination attempt in Hudlin's run than in Hunter.

    We need more from Hunter other than being the resident white guy in Wakanda....with all the resources and spy networks he has, why hasn't he found his real biological family?!?

    Tchalla would most DEFINITELY know the answers.

    Personally, I would make Hunter the lost prince of a alien civilisation. During an assasination attempt killing Hunter's dad while his mum flees with him. She is chased by assassins who were able to destroy his shop in Earth's orbit but she was able to shoot out Hunter in a pod which crash landed in Wakanda.

    Tchalla later tells Hunter of his origins and help Hunter regain his throne against the ursurpers. Hunter is immensely grateful and given his loyalty to Wakanda decides to make his alien kingdom a part of Wakanda cemented in marriage to Shuri.

    Hunter's aggressions against Tchalla will decline but micro aggressions will persist even though atbthenens of the day they still love each other as brothers.

    With the annex and/partnership with Hunter's alien kingdom....sparks the honest beginnings towards the Inter-galactic Empire of Wakanda starting with inter-planetary trade agreements, then inter-star systems security unions, then inter-galactic treaties, etc

  7. #5107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Solid points there, come to think of it.



    And those other, less utopian nations feeling their own power threatened or diminished by Wakanda becoming an active presence on the world stage in the face of Wakanda's superior technology, unable or unwilling to believe Wakanda means well for the world because of what they themselves have spent years, decades, even centuries doing to less (technologically) advanced nations and cultures and projecting their guilt onto Wakanda. Basically, it'd be a case of "evil cannot comprehend good" on a geopolitical level.
    Thanks, I think you and Mik got the right idea too. If a writer wants to deal with solarpunk, juxtaposing the egalitarian, green nation of Wakanda with the less utopian outside world is an easy way to go about it. And that doesnít have to just be limited to outsiders like Klaw or the US government that want to steal Wakandan vibranium.

    The X-books are kinda exploring this idea in Marauders, many people donít trust Krakoa and you have forces out there trying to sabotage mutant medicine that theyíre trading to the outside world to turn public opinion against the island. Weíve also seen it in the Black Panther books, Wakandagate being a prime example of Wakandan generosity being used to create conflict. Focusing on the geopolitical aspects of solarpunk is easier than creating internal conflict within Wakanda itself without becoming too derivative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Besouro View Post
    I respect all the characters on this list but Lynn sounds like the very definitive definition on a perpetual damsel in distress....give her superpowers either as an Inhuman, a non-Xmen affiliated mutant, a latent Eternal, a super-skrull, last descendant of some ancient cosmic being, whatever as long as she brings more to BP mythos beyond just being Tchalla's sperm recipient,screaming and crying and quivering and being utterly helpless and non-contributive in any practical way.
    I donít see how Lynne not being able to fight makes her a damsel. I wouldnít describe Lois Lane or MJ as damsels nowadays because writers are smart enough to realize that constantly putting them in dangerous situations isnít where they shine. All Monica needs is a few lessons with Shuri and Okoye to be able to hold herself in a fight IMO. Other than that Iíd keep her in a civilian role and would like to see her use her wide ranging social and political connections to help Wakanda reach out to the outside world while making sure TíChalla doesnít emotionally close himself off. Just donít put her in situations where she becomes a damsel I guess lol.

    But really a lot of the characters I named are interchangeable so if you prefer Nightshade or Zanda, I think they can fill the same spot as Monica, just with the added factor of being able to fight. Just like how either Kasper or Akili could be the primary HZ or how Zuri, Brother Voodoo, or Zawavari could be the primary magic user.

  8. #5108
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Thanks, I think you and Mik got the right idea too. If a writer wants to deal with solarpunk, juxtaposing the egalitarian, green nation of Wakanda with the less utopian outside world is an easy way to go about it. And that doesn’t have to just be limited to outsiders like Klaw or the US government that want to steal Wakandan vibranium.

    The X-books are kinda exploring this idea in Marauders, many people don’t trust Krakoa and you have forces out there trying to sabotage mutant medicine that they’re trading to the outside world to turn public opinion against the island. We’ve also seen it in the Black Panther books, Wakandagate being a prime example of Wakandan generosity being used to create conflict. Focusing on the geopolitical aspects of solarpunk is easier than creating internal conflict within Wakanda itself without becoming too derivative.



    I don’t see how Lynne not being able to fight makes her a damsel. I wouldn’t describe Lois Lane or MJ as damsels nowadays because writers are smart enough to realize that constantly putting them in dangerous situations isn’t where they shine. All Monica needs is a few lessons with Shuri and Okoye to be able to hold herself in a fight IMO. Other than that I’d keep her in a civilian role and would like to see her use her wide ranging social and political connections to help Wakanda reach out to the outside world while making sure T’Challa doesn’t emotionally close himself off. Just don’t put her in situations where she becomes a damsel I guess lol.

    But really a lot of the characters I named are interchangeable so if you prefer Nightshade or Zanda, I think they can fill the same spot as Monica, just with the added factor of being able to fight. Just like how either Kasper or Akili could be the primary HZ or how Zuri, Brother Voodoo, or Zawavari could be the primary magic user.
    I think you could do stories showing contrasting nature of Wakanda's utopia and other nations not-so-utopias. Maybe the anti-Wakandan elements in rival nations use the recent upheavals in Wakanda to attempt to discredit T'Challa

    As for Monica, I think it's not unreasonable for people to fear female love interests being turned into damsels. It's less common recently but still possible. Plus, the relationships never last in comics anyway.

  9. #5109
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besouro View Post
    I respect all the characters on this list but Lynn sounds like the very definitive definition on a perpetual damsel in distress....give her superpowers either as an Inhuman, a non-Xmen affiliated mutant, a latent Eternal, a super-skrull, last descendant of some ancient cosmic being, whatever as long as she brings more to BP mythos beyond just being Tchalla's sperm recipient,screaming and crying and quivering and being utterly helpless and non-contributive in any practical way.
    The most famous love interests in the world at Lois Lane and MJ.

    Completely powerless.

    Not all supporting characters have to be able to fight. They are there to support the lead... not take up panel time punching people T'challa can just punch. Or shuri. or the HZ. or Okoye. or "insert everyone in the mythos"

    T;challa has plenty of support characters that are useful in combat. Why does his LI need to as well? It doesn't add anything.
    Last edited by MindofShadow; 05-01-2021 at 09:08 AM.
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  10. #5110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I think you could do stories showing contrasting nature of Wakanda's utopia and other nations not-so-utopias. Maybe the anti-Wakandan elements in rival nations use the recent upheavals in Wakanda to attempt to discredit T'Challa

    As for Monica, I think it's not unreasonable for people to fear female love interests being turned into damsels. It's less common recently but still possible. Plus, the relationships never last in comics anyway.
    Thatís a good direction. Whether they be motivated by racism, hypocrisy, or threatened business interests thereís plenty of elements in non-utopian countries that would be against Wakanda trying to help the outside world. Which opens up many moral questions about TíChallaís goals and how he wants to achieve them.

    I think itís pretty nonsensical to think that just because Monica isnít an omega level mutant goddess or some kind of alien that she brings nothing to the mythos and automatically is a damsel. I get not wanting her to be a liability but the trope of the civilian lover has substantially evolved past the caricature Besouro is suggesting, all you need to do is read modern Spider-Man or Superman to see that. The Amazing Spider-Man had like 30 issues of MJ as a prominent character and she was never a quivering mess or reduced to being Peterís ďsperm recipientĒ lol.

    And with TíChalla he already has multiple people that can fight in his supporting cast. Why does his love interest need to be some super badass warrior queen? Is he a lesser man for picking someone gentle and more interested in cerebral pursuits/humanitarian causes? I understand the desire for TíChalla to be in a ďpower coupleĒ but I find the concept overrated.

  11. #5111
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Isn't Wakanda already a solarpunk civilization? When I look at all the hallmarks of the genre: egalitarian society, sustainable material culture, culturally progressive (for the most part), Wakanda seems to meet the definition. That the Techno-Jungle was part of the kingdom's introduction makes me feel Wakanda is the solarpunk civilization that modern sci-fi is trying to envision. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were way ahead of the curve. The question about solarpunk is that as a setting it's very difficult to create conflict because things are very utopian. I've seen discussion in literary spaces about how "-punk" as a genre really only works if you have something for characters to rebel against. With cyberpunk you got the technocratic elites that rule the megacorps and governments who make life for the lower classes miserable. Biopunk takes that same idea but replaces cybernetics with biotechnology. With solarpunk who are your characters rebelling against? The communal farms and artisanal workers' guilds that support a strong, eco-friendly welfare state lol?

    It's why most solarpunk works in my experience comes off as little more than speculative sci-fi with a "green" edge for a dash of futurism. It's also why there's no solarpunk equivalent to a Neuromancer or Ghost in the Shell. Wakanda as a setting poses the same problems, it's too perfect for there to be much conflict, so you're pretty much left with A. religious strife (like the White Gorilla Cult of the Jabari), B. Xenophobic nationalists who want to stop extending a hand to the outside world, or C. Intertribal warfare caused for petty (and often contrived) reasons like a Dora marrying someone not named BP. So writer either has to ignore established facts of Wakandan society in order to create conflict (like the crack in Wakanda story) or really do their best to justify why certain conflicts take place. I prefer if we saw more of the latter and writers took more unique approaches to routes A, B, and C. If we role with the idea that Wakanda is really stepping up on the world stage, that should be causing a cascade of changes within Wakandan society that can be a jumping off point for new conflicts T'Challa has to deal with as king.
    Solarpunks conflicts come from outside influence who is jealous of their success and want to take it over. I always thought it was pretty dumb how many civil wars happened in Wakanda, you can have some small scale stuff like a rogue tribe or something, but most conflicts should be outside, not invasions, too often, like a civil conflict, or aim for the throne should only happened once every 5-10 years atleast. But other nations like what JA I'd doing in Avengers with the superhuman arms race. That's the stuff I want to see

  12. #5112
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That’s a good direction. Whether they be motivated by racism, hypocrisy, or threatened business interests there’s plenty of elements in non-utopian countries that would be against Wakanda trying to help the outside world. Which opens up many moral questions about T’Challa’s goals and how he wants to achieve them.

    I think it’s pretty nonsensical to think that just because Monica isn’t an omega level mutant goddess or some kind of alien that she brings nothing to the mythos and automatically is a damsel. I get not wanting her to be a liability but the trope of the civilian lover has substantially evolved past the caricature Besouro is suggesting, all you need to do is read modern Spider-Man or Superman to see that. The Amazing Spider-Man had like 30 issues of MJ as a prominent character and she was never a quivering mess or reduced to being Peter’s “sperm recipient” lol.

    And with T’Challa he already has multiple people that can fight in his supporting cast. Why does his love interest need to be some super badass warrior queen? Is he a lesser man for picking someone gentle and more interested in cerebral pursuits/humanitarian causes? I understand the desire for T’Challa to be in a “power couple” but I find the concept overrated.
    I think T'Challa's goals are mostly noble, although he's had questionable moments

    I agree love interests have evolved a lot. But women in comics still are objectified and stereotyped in many ways. Plus, IMO they can feed into the somewhat toxic idea of a "man needing a woman to be a man." And do these romances even matter if they never last?

    I don't think he's lesser for picking an intelligent woman who's not a warrior though

  13. #5113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    Have we ever talked about the BET hudlin Black Panther cartoon? Other than the animation style what is everyone's thoughts on it?
    I liked it, the animation was fine though I would of went with a different style. Wish it continued on. Had some really REALLY good quotes for T'Challa and the theme song was DOPE

  14. #5114
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    I dunno, I would say some of y'all need to read Don Mcgregors Panthers rage when it came to how the relationship between T'Challa and Monica developed. She wasn't constantly a damsel in distress, she contributed alot to T'Challas development, not that he was less of a man, but more so you got to see the side of him that you normally don't, see him smiling and happy, able to let his guard down, and most importantly, showing Black love in a healthy manner.

    He does t have to settle down immediately. Have Zanda fling, nightshade catwoman type, and then eventually meets back up with Monica and they develop and become a couple again

  15. #5115
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I understand the desire for T’Challa to be in a “power couple” but I find the concept overrated.
    Because it really doesn't do any good unless both characters are D list. Otherwise, one fan base is always gonna be pissed about the other being a "sidekick" and they are always gonna clamor for more. Look at storm fans crying the books weren't called "BP and Storm." Which is wild, because they should be used to her thrown in the background... that's her whole career. Hell, being elevated to partner was a promotion from back up singer.

    Sam and Misty can work because Misty has no fan base. Luke and JJ can work because JJ really has no fan base outside of one storyline and Luke ain't doing much better lol. Monica and Adam work because neither on them are in anything lol. Gambit and Rogue can work (is it still working? I have no idea) because they are background X men characters ala storm.

    But stuff like Superman and Wonder Woman will never work long term.
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