T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2021

[MindofShadow]

I agree, I’m sure Redjack would’ve knocked it out the park if he wanted to hone in on more domestic Wakandan stuff. He already had a great handle on the lore and brought some great new ideas to the table, but it would’ve been nice to see a bit more of Wakandan politics and factions. That’s a side of the mythos ripe with story possibilities for T’Challa as we’ve seen in the comics.

But I did really appreciate his overall approach to BP as a Doc Savage global adventurer-type like he was depicted under Kirby. And I think it created natural opportunities to have him work with the Avengers, who were meant to be a huge part of the season. So I don’t hold it against the show because the direction they went in more than worked for me. What I really want to see is more BP animation in general so we can get more content with dude. I hope Feige having control of the animation division means we get more cartoons, which ideally aren’t 100% beholden to what happens in the movies. Marvel has the characters and money to hire people that can make a Marvel equivalent to Young Justice spread across multiple series. If only animation were more profitable I guess lol.

Redjack is about the only person id trust with somethign like that.

GoT stuff is hard. Even GoT dudes couldn't fnish it well lol.

Idk why people think T'Challa would be second guessed about every decision

Because that is what politicians do. There is always going to be opposition somewhere.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah, and sometimes second guessing the leader is a good idea

[Frontier]

I agree, I’m sure Redjack would’ve knocked it out the park if he wanted to hone in on more domestic Wakandan stuff. He already had a great handle on the lore and brought some great new ideas to the table, but it would’ve been nice to see a bit more of Wakandan politics and factions. That’s a side of the mythos ripe with story possibilities for T’Challa as we’ve seen in the comics.

But I did really appreciate his overall approach to BP as a Doc Savage global adventurer-type like he was depicted under Kirby. And I think it created natural opportunities to have him work with the Avengers, who were meant to be a huge part of the season. So I don’t hold it against the show because the direction they went in more than worked for me. What I really want to see is more BP animation in general so we can get more content with dude. I hope Feige having control of the animation division means we get more cartoons, which ideally aren’t 100% beholden to what happens in the movies. Marvel has the characters and money to hire people that can make a Marvel equivalent to Young Justice spread across multiple series. If only animation were more profitable I guess lol.

Yeah, I mean, Doc Savage T'Challa isn't really my thing and I'd rather he be a little more Wakand-based (with the occasional globe-trotting adventure) but I think Redjack still delivered on a good adventure cartoon with T'Challa as the lead. I also liked the flashbacks to past Black Panthers. I just also would've loved to see them focus a little more on Wakanda itself...

I'm not sure what's next for Marvel Animation with Feige in charge. Feels like they're just doubling-down on the MCU.

Redjack is about the only person id trust with somethign like that.

GoT stuff is hard. Even GoT dudes couldn't fnish it well lol.

I'm reminded of those episodes in the Clone Wars that focused on Padme and politics and I remember people talking about how dull they were (although I didn't hate them).

Yeah, and sometimes second guessing the leader is a good idea

That's what he has advisers for, like Shuri.

[CosmiComic]

That's what he has advisers for, like Shuri.

True. I'm not even saying T'Challa should be second guessed all the time. My original point simply was there's more to being a leader than combat, and the leadership test could incorporate it. Somehow this ended up with democracy apparently being a failure, and realism of all things is somehow destroying comic books

[Redjack]

True. I'm not even saying T'Challa should be second guessed all the time. My original point simply was there's more to being a leader than combat, and the leadership test could incorporate it. Somehow this ended up with democracy apparently being a failure, and realism of all things is somehow destroying comic books

"realism" is a crutch used by people who are new to writing super-hero fiction.

Some fans think they want more realism but, invariably, too much of the real world in super-hero comics makes for some shittier super-hero comics. What they want is to feel the actions of these heroes ring TRUE which is not the same as being REAL.

The base concepts of these heroes and their worlds are just too thin to support too much true realism.

Wakanda is a scifi secret monarchy.

EVERYONE is Wakanda is an olympic level athlete and a near genius level thinker. The ritual of ascension via combat is part faith (Bast smiles on whoever wins and thus is fated by the goddess to rule), part test of combat skills and part contest of wills to see who has the necessary grit to rule. This is why ANYONE is allowed to compete. It's egalitarian without being democratic. The council exists to ADVISE the ruler, not tell him what to do or fight his decisions.

it's not a democracy. they aren't Americans.

nor do they age, speak any real language or stay dead when they're killed.

big 2 super hero comics are about what can be made to seem plausible inside their own universes, not what can be made to match reality more closely.

reality, like nostalgia, kills them.

[Redjack]

Redjack is about the only person id trust with somethign like that.

GoT stuff is hard. Even GoT dudes couldn't fnish it well lol.



Because that is what politicians do. There is always going to be opposition somewhere.

our mandate on BPQ was to make T'Challa a GLOBAL player. A little Doc Savage, a little James Bond.

There were several discussions about using the council AND the Queen Mother but ultimately we just didn't have enough episodes to run that thread through them.

[Ezyo1000]

Idk why people think T'Challa would be second guessed about every decision

Because that's how it has worked literally everytime the council is involved. Hell it happened in the MCU as well from when he left to go retrieve klaw, to when Erik showed up and challenged hom for the throne. T'Challa is looking at the big picture while they are small scale so they question his every decision. That happened in with gilis, Priest, and Hudlin as well. Hell in Hudlins WitBP, there was a whole thing of the council going on after he took the throne, about them arguing what he should be doing.

[MindofShadow]

I'm reminded of those episodes in the Clone Wars that focused on Padme and politics and I remember people talking about how dull they were (although I didn't hate them).

Lol yup.

The stuff always seems cool in theory and then you get a whole episode of and it and you just want it to stop. Politics is routine. It is boring. It is procedural.

That's what he has advisers for, like Shuri.

Exactly.

We don't need a random bunch of people on a "tribal council" to challenge T'challa's opinions of beliefs.

That is what Shuri, Okoye, Ramonda, Zuri (rip), S'yan (rip), W'kabi (rip), Hunter (rest in... prison) are for. In specific instances, people like Zawavari, Mendinao (missing), Ngassi (missing), Taku (get him out of the techno jungle lol). Supporting characters challenge the lead. Don't need a political body for that that exists just ot get in the way.

Hell... we got a council of former black panthers the last... 8? years and what did that amount too? Just a bunch of whining and complaining and being scolded.

If someone wanted to morph talking to former black panthers in Necropolis as some sort of council... sure. But it needs to be a lot more entertaining and creative that just bitchin gat T'challa the whole time.

[CosmiComic]

"realism" is a crutch used by people who are new to writing super-hero fiction.

Some fans think they want more realism but, invariably, too much of the real world in super-hero comics makes for some shittier super-hero comics. What they want is to feel the actions of these heroes ring TRUE which is not the same as being REAL.

The base concepts of these heroes and their worlds are just too thin to support too much true realism.

Wakanda is a scifi secret monarchy.

EVERYONE is Wakanda is an olympic level athlete and a near genius level thinker. The ritual of ascension via combat is part faith (Bast smiles on whoever wins and thus is fated by the goddess to rule), part test of combat skills and part contest of wills to see who has the necessary grit to rule. This is why ANYONE is allowed to compete. It's egalitarian without being democratic. The council exists to ADVISE the ruler, not tell him what to do or fight his decisions.

it's not a democracy. they aren't Americans.

nor do they age, speak any real language or stay dead when they're killed.

big 2 super hero comics are about what can be made to seem plausible inside their own universes, not what can be made to match reality more closely.

reality, like nostalgia, kills them.

I don't see how this is a hard and absolute fact.

Because that's how it has worked literally everytime the council is involved. Hell it happened in the MCU as well from when he left to go retrieve klaw, to when Erik showed up and challenged hom for the throne. T'Challa is looking at the big picture while they are small scale so they question his every decision. That happened in with gilis, Priest, and Hudlin as well. Hell in Hudlins WitBP, there was a whole thing of the council going on after he took the throne, about them arguing what he should be doing.

Ok. But why is the alternative for one person to make unilateral decisions for everyone?

[Ezyo1000]

I don't see how this is a hard and absolute fact.



Ok. But why is the alternative for one person to make unilateral decisions for everyone?

Because it's HIS book and he is the King. I'll take another example for Hudlins run. When T'Challa is away due to solomons frog's the tribal council is at a complete standstill. They don't know what to do without T'Challa there and they ask for Shuri to leaf them to make the tough decisions.

That's WHY T'Challa makes unilateral decisions. Again, they are small scale, looking at what's in front of them while T'Challa sees the big picture. They want to isolate themselves from the world again and go back to traditions of old while T'Challa opened them up and is in the 21st century.

Coates installed the constitutional monarchy where T'Challa is the figurehead and the council has more power on S2 and guess what happened? They did nothing, and asked T'Challa what they should do and he made the decisions. Ot also leads to the other issue Coates had which is constantly having T'Challa delegating Because now he is being tied up by redtape and people constantly telling him why Wakanda should not be Involved.

This is a superhero comic about a powered king in a cat suit who worships a cat God and is king of the most advanced nation on earth. Keep it simple and efficient.

That's why all this focus on the political side is ignored, it's boring, it doesn't need a whole council and T'Challa debating with them with every decision made.

We don't need to see the mundane, sure show is some big deal stuff that has consequences, but we do t need a whole issue or several issues spanning a political debate or challenge day to dive into why T'Challa is the best candidate filled with philosophical prose and his entire Wakandan action plan for the fiscal year.

[CosmiComic]

Because it's HIS book and he is the King. I'll take another example for Hudlins run. When T'Challa is away due to solomons frog's the tribal council is at a complete standstill. They don't know what to do without T'Challa there and they ask for Shuri to leaf them to make the tough decisions.

That's WHY T'Challa makes unilateral decisions. Again, they are small scale, looking at what's in front of them while T'Challa sees the big picture. They want to isolate themselves from the world again and go back to traditions of old while T'Challa opened them up and is in the 21st century.

Coates installed the constitutional monarchy where T'Challa is the figurehead and the council has more power on S2 and guess what happened? They did nothing, and asked T'Challa what they should do and he made the decisions.

That's why all this focus on the political side is ignored, it's boring, it doesn't need a whole council and T'Challa debating with them with every decision made.

We don't need to see the mundane, sure show is some big deal stuff that has consequences, but we do t need a whole issue or several issues spanning a political debate or challenge day to dive into why T'Challa is the best candidate filled with philosophical prose and his entire Wakandan action plan for the fiscal year.

Ok. I'm not saying there should be Phantom-Menace style debates in every single frame, am I?

I'm just saying, if the leader has this level of power, he/she should be chosen for more than just combat. Why's that so unreasonable?

And why do comics always seem to make consultation and democratic thinking seem evil?

[Cville]

Ok. I'm not saying there should be Phantom-Menace style debates in every single frame, am I?

I'm just saying, if the leader has this level of power, he/she should be chosen for more than just combat. Why's that so unreasonable?

And why do comics always seem to make consultation and democratic thinking seem evil?

Pretty sure some of us have said there are more trials than just combat. But it varies depending on what run you read. The reason it doesn't get locked in stone is probably because its not important to whatever story is being told.

[CosmiComic]

Pretty sure some of us have said there are more trials than just combat. But it varies depending on what run you read. The reason it doesn't get locked in stone is probably because its not important to whatever story is being told.

Ok. I may have missed that. I think Wakanda does a lot of things right, tbh. But idk if any nation is flawless. Regardless, I'm not asking for a bunch of debates in every scene.

[MindofShadow]

Pretty sure some of us have said there are more trials than just combat. But it varies depending on what run you read. The reason it doesn't get locked in stone is probably because its not important to whatever story is being told.

I look at it this way, based on using as much as the canon as possible...


Challenge Day: Tests future ruler ability to fight 1v1 against the best of the best. Really freaking useful for determining ruler/protector of Wakanda since the BP will be involved in many such fights

Defeat 6+ Warriors: Pretty useful in an invasion scenario... can you defeat more than one enemy at the same time in the front lines of an invasion? And remember... this was preherb, you are depowered.

Something Spiritual: described as meditation by shuri, initially T'challa had to stay a the vigil of the Panther god... this tests the BP's spiritual side... pretty necessary for a theocracy

Journey to the Herb: tests the rulers ability to survive int he wild, track, and strategy to some extent.

Direct Meeting with Bast: kinda self explanatory but after doing all that stuff, the literal god of your country decides if you are worthy.

[Cville]

I look at it this way, based on using as much as the canon as possible...


Challenge Day: Tests future ruler ability to fight 1v1 against the best of the best. Really freaking useful for determining ruler/protector of Wakanda since the BP will be involved in many such fights

Defeat 6+ Warriors: Pretty useful in an invasion scenario... can you defeat more than one enemy at the same time in the front lines of an invasion? And remember... this was preherb, you are depowered.

Something Spiritual: described as meditation by shuri, initially T'challa had to stay a the vigil of the Panther god... this tests the BP's spiritual side... pretty necessary for a theocracy

Journey to the Herb: tests the rulers ability to survive int he wild, track, and strategy to some extent.

Direct Meeting with Bast: kinda self explanatory but after doing all that stuff, the literal god of your country decides if you are worthy.

Throw in the history test that Kasper had to do. If a disciple has to do it, the BP probably has to do something similar that is multiple times harder.