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  1. #9556
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Killing T'Challa off makes the most sense. If they leave him alive it all but confirms he'll be brought back and fans will be immediately speculating about when Disney will do it and what the ramifications will be.

    Whereas straight up killing T'Challa off leaves some ambiguity about the character's future and produces a greater sense of finality that can be subverted if/when they bring him back. T'Challa getting killed off also packs a bigger emotional punch than having him missing in space or entering self-imposed exile in the jungle.

    In deciding not to recast (for now), the #1 thing this movie needs to achieve is powerful metacommentary about the loss of Boseman and how audiences/Wakanda deal with that. The most effective way to do so is to have art match the harsh realities of real life. Then if/when Marvel decides to recast they can do any number of things to bring the character back, like KoTD or the multiverse.
    Yes. Profiting off black male death. Because nothing says honoring your friend's legacy like killing it and having it be dead alongside him. And then going and making a movie where the characters (played by the friends of said person) get to grieve again but on film this time.

    It Sounds like a depressing movie and just reinforces to kids that the one character who looks like them, larger than life Black king and superhero, can and if they go this route, will be killed and not live on

  2. #9557
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Killing T'Challa off makes the most sense. If they leave him alive it all but confirms he'll be brought back and fans will be immediately speculating about when Disney will do it and what the ramifications will be.

    Whereas straight up killing T'Challa off leaves some ambiguity about the character's future and produces a greater sense of finality that can be subverted if/when they bring him back. T'Challa getting killed off also packs a bigger emotional punch than having him missing in space or entering self-imposed exile in the jungle.

    In deciding not to recast (for now), the #1 thing this movie needs to achieve is powerful metacommentary about the loss of Boseman and how audiences/Wakanda deal with that. The most effective way to do so is to have art match the harsh realities of real life. Then if/when Marvel decides to recast they can do any number of things to bring the character back, like KoTD or the multiverse.
    Oh sure, because I totally want to see a glorified 2 and a half hour funeral on the big screen. Because audiences totally want to be lectured on Black Death even though if we want to see that we can literally just turn on the news and call it a day. And why do Black characters always have to be the sacrificial lamb in order to teach a harsh life lesson?
    T'Challa
    A.K.A. The Black Panther
    King of Wakanda
    King of the Dead and The Champion of Bast
    Two-Time Time Magazine "Person Of The Year"
    Six-Time People Magazine "Sexiest Man Alive"

  3. #9558
    Fantastic Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Oh sure, because I totally want to see a glorified 2 and a half hour funeral on the big screen. Because audiences totally want to be lectured on Black Death even though if we want to see that we can literally just turn on the news and call it a day. And why do Black characters always have to be the sacrificial lamb in order to teach a harsh life lesson?

    I have many opinions on this but aim gonna play Devils advocate and say perhaps.. this isnt just for black people and it isnt the same thing as seeing it on the news. You mention about black death which we can see in the real world in the news and yes, thats a real issue. But the news portrays black death as violent, unimportant, sometimes even merciful for the victim. Like they are escaping something terrible. Or like they had it coming. Or like it was going to happen eventually. Its a statistic used to inform or to even warn, but there's no warmth or feeling behind it. For some people, people for whom Black Panther was very much a window to modern black culture... for those people maybe this is the kind of "black death" they are used to seeing.

    So, what if this movie is doing something different? What if this movie is portraying a black death as being important and meaningful. Tragic, but graceful. Poignant and something that happens, but that leaves a scar in everyone involved, not for the sting of punishment but instead because of the loss of excellence. That would do much for such a harmful trope and flip it on its script to make it something that we can appreciate. That could be a beautiful send off for an excellent black man.

    I dont think black death shouldn't happen at all in media. I think black death should be portrayed same as any other... but it should be given the same level of importance. Given that simply killing off a character would leave an actor still living and turn it into a marketing scheme. This is a very rare opportunity to reflect on how we react to black men dying in a way that is actually meaningful, because it is very much a loss in the real world even more so than it is in the fictional world.
    Last edited by Toonstrack; 07-28-2021 at 04:31 PM.

  4. #9559
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Killing T'Challa off makes the most sense. If they leave him alive it all but confirms he'll be brought back and fans will be immediately speculating about when Disney will do it and what the ramifications will be.

    Whereas straight up killing T'Challa off leaves some ambiguity about the character's future and produces a greater sense of finality that can be subverted if/when they bring him back. T'Challa getting killed off also packs a bigger emotional punch than having him missing in space or entering self-imposed exile in the jungle.

    In deciding not to recast (for now), the #1 thing this movie needs to achieve is powerful metacommentary about the loss of Boseman and how audiences/Wakanda deal with that. The most effective way to do so is to have art match the harsh realities of real life. Then if/when Marvel decides to recast they can do any number of things to bring the character back, like KoTD or the multiverse.
    Good luck with however they do it/handle it. I'll just sit this one out and wait for the return.

  5. #9560
    On a MissionÖ DigiCom's Avatar
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    Doom threw major shade on T'Challa in SWORD #7. But Storm was written well. *rolls eyes*

    *sighs*


  6. #9561
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Oh sure, because I totally want to see a glorified 2 and a half hour funeral on the big screen. Because audiences totally want to be lectured on Black Death even though if we want to see that we can literally just turn on the news and call it a day. And why do Black characters always have to be the sacrificial lamb in order to teach a harsh life lesson?
    I agree, black characters being used as sacrificial lambs for life lessons, and having death overshadow anything they do in life while sniffing out a character that means so much to the world is unfortunate and sucks. But I’m just trying to rationalize why Disney will probably go down that route (with the potential to recast in the future) over leaving T’Challa’s short term fate ambiguous. I’m with you though on the incessant and aggressive otherization and sidelining of black characters.

  7. #9562
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Doom threw major shade on T'Challa in SWORD #7. But Storm was written well. *rolls eyes*

    *sighs*

    Eh, didn’t seem like shade to me. Doom looks down on everyone and he was pretty clearly talking about how Storm was T’Challa’s inferior which she doesn’t even dignify with an actual retort, she just says Doom’s in no place to discuss marriage lol. If anything I feel like she was kinda defending T’Challa but that’s just my read.

  8. #9563
    Incredible Member Vanguard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Eh, didn’t seem like shade to me. Doom looks down on everyone and he was pretty clearly talking about how Storm was T’Challa’s inferior which she doesn’t even dignify with an actual retort, she just says Doom’s in no place to discuss marriage lol. If anything I feel like she was kinda defending T’Challa but that’s just my read.
    I agree, it was almost a compliment to TChalla.

  9. #9564
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toonstrack View Post
    I have many opinions on this but aim gonna play Devils advocate and say perhaps.. this isnt just for black people and it isnt the same thing as seeing it on the news. You mention about black death which we can see in the real world in the news and yes, thats a real issue. But the news portrays black death as violent, unimportant, sometimes even merciful for the victim. Like they are escaping something terrible. Or like they had it coming. Or like it was going to happen eventually. Its a statistic used to inform or to even warn, but there's no warmth or feeling behind it. For some people, people for whom Black Panther was very much a window to modern black culture... for those people maybe this is the kind of "black death" they are used to seeing.

    So, what if this movie is doing something different? What if this movie is portraying a black death as being important and meaningful. Tragic, but graceful. Poignant and something that happens, but that leaves a scar in everyone involved, not for the sting of punishment but instead because of the loss of excellence. That would do much for such a harmful trope and flip it on its script to make it something that we can appreciate. That could be a beautiful send off for an excellent black man.

    I dont think black death shouldn't happen at all in media. I think black death should be portrayed same as any other... but it should be given the same level of importance. Given that simply killing off a character would leave an actor still living and turn it into a marketing scheme. This is a very rare opportunity to reflect on how we react to black men dying in a way that is actually meaningful, because it is very much a loss in the real world even more so than it is in the fictional world.
    F0D21C36-AA42-4F1A-863B-2DAB3FC04704.jpg

    So we already went through the pain of losing Chad in real life, by the time the film releases it will be nearly two years since he died and you want Marvel to reopen a wound and pour salt on it? Yeah, you can miss me with all that.
    T'Challa
    A.K.A. The Black Panther
    King of Wakanda
    King of the Dead and The Champion of Bast
    Two-Time Time Magazine "Person Of The Year"
    Six-Time People Magazine "Sexiest Man Alive"

  10. #9565
    Fantastic Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    F0D21C36-AA42-4F1A-863B-2DAB3FC04704.jpg

    So we already went through the pain of losing Chad in real life, by the time the film releases it will be nearly two years since he died and you want Marvel to reopen a wound and pour salt on it? Yeah, you can miss me with all that.

    I was speaking on your statement of black death being used. Primarily, my argument is that it doesn't have to JUST be a profiting scheme or whatever. It can be done meaningfully. The people behind the story we are getting were close to the actor, I trust their judgement.

    The wounds gonna hurt regardless. That would be the case even if they were to recast. That'd be the case regardless of what they did.

    But I'm ignoring all of that. If the character has to go this way then it doesn't have to be the way you are suggesting. It can be good. It can be meaningful. Thsts all I was saying.

    For me it's not reopening anything. The wound isn't closed. It still sucks and it sucks doubly because of what character has taken a hit as a result. Marvel had to do something though. You dont have a 1.4 billion movie, a cultural landmark by any account and pretend it doesn't exist when the actor dies. Thats just not realistic.

    This films got a rough road ahead of it but im gonna take it in an judge it when it comes.
    Last edited by Toonstrack; 07-28-2021 at 05:06 PM.

  11. #9566
    On a MissionÖ DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    I agree, it was almost a compliment to TChalla.
    I don't see it that way:


  12. #9567
    Fantastic Member Toonstrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I don't see it that way:

    I mean... this is perfectly in character for doom. He always demeans those in his company or their loved ones.

  13. #9568
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    I don't see it that way:

    Doom's got no room to be talking s*** and cracking wise about marriage after what just went down with him.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #9569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Doom's got no room to be talking s*** and cracking wise about marriage after what just went down with him.
    Being a King's wife makes her a QUEEN. A queen of a nation that even the Skrulls could not take out.

    Now she's a true queen WITHOUT a MAN or HUSBAND....... that sounds like shade to her.

  15. #9570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard View Post
    I agree, it was almost a compliment to TChalla.
    Exactly lol, Doom being a dick to everyone is kinda his defining trait. And I donít think Storm even accepted the premise of his discussion, she put the whole thing to rest lol.

    Ewing is actually the only X-writer I trust with TíChalla and the BP mythos because heís the type that brings out the best in all characters and clearly respects the black characters he brings to the forefront. Which I canít say for a good portion of the current writers in that office, many of whom have clear bias. Itís partly why even though Iím worried to see how he incorporates the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda (a concept I hate and would rather have been destroyed) Iím fairly confident heíll give them a fair shake.

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