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  1. #12241
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Coates also had the benefit of being new to fiction so pretty much everyone (except those who disagreed with his politics or just weren’t interested in BP) had no expectations coming in. People thought “BP is a political character, Coates is a political writer, this is gonna be fantastic”. .
    Remember when we thought The Crew might by good because Coates was in his "wheel house" writing a more black (and not african king) book?

    LOL

    Back when we still had some hope... .
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  2. #12242
    Old-School Otaku DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    So there's always going to be a portion of the media that these Creators will produce that will inevitably piss off the fandom.

    But since there's real money and prestige in the genre now, we aren't getting rid of those kinds of creatives anytime soon.
    Here's the problem tho. In the comics, that fandom is the majority of the audience. When Coates came on BP, there were a lot of people talking about the audience he brought to the comics, the politically-aware & literate crowd who knew him from his monographs and articles. And that huge spike for his first issue suggested it might be true.

    And then they left. Rapidly. And while he may have added a few hundred readers who stuck around, the great majority of the remaining were the same hardcore fans who "these Creators" piss off. Some of them came back for his IGEW relaunch... and left even faster.

    The dirty little secret of the superhero industry is that new comics really don't matter much. The stories are often mediocrre at best, and sales derive more from variant covers (which new readers neither know nor care about), crossovers/events (which tend to confuse casual readers), and stunts like making characters bisexual (which may get readers in the door, but won't keep them).

    You are correct that there's a lot of money & prestige in the superhero genre...

    ... but it's in the movies and streaming, not in the comics.

  3. #12243
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    You can pay somebody to write Super Heroes but you can't pay people to like them.

    Now that Supers are big business you now have people who are in the genre but not necessarily fans of it. Before it was either industry lifers or fanboys that graduated into the industry working with Super Hero genre.

    Now it's people from other media who may not like or understand the genre at all working in it. Because that's where the money is now.

    I remember before '89 you even had people IN the industry who didn't see how ANY serious take on Supers could work, let alone the peeps who thought comics made no sense period.

    Like for example, Zorro and Robin Hood were social protesters/revolutionaries facing oppressive, murderous regimes. THEY made sense. Batman doesn't make sense to them and he never will.

    When people like that get thier hands on the material you get something like the Gotham TV series or Coates Black Panther.

    The real problem is comics fans generally speaking, don't take to deconstruction too well. So there's always going to be a portion of the media that these Creators will produce that will inevitably piss off the fandom.

    But since there's real money and prestige in the genre now, we aren't getting rid of those kinds of creatives anytime soon.
    I wouldn't even say fans don't like deconstruction, so long as the hero isnt getting punked and beat down the entire time and then at the end, barely eek out a victory that's more pyrrhic in nature. When a character is struggling but still shown as capable even though they are out through the ringer, followed by a triumphant and powerful victory at the end, putting them in a better place then they started, fandom I feel is more tolerable of such stories as opposed to these people coming in and injecting "Realism, and humanizing" stories that basically take the world and put the heroes through **** that people use comics to escape from. But we aren't shown how the heroes can change the world around them with their fantastic power's, we are instead giving downtrodden stories that emulate real life with depressing beats. Coates story was all about that and it was just depressing and boring ****

  4. #12244
    Old-School Otaku DigiCom's Avatar
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    The problem isn't deconstruction, anyway.

    Not really.

    The problem is that few writers seem interested in reconstruction.

    It's all "taking them apart to see what makes them tick", without bothering to put them back together afterward.

    Which is one of the big red flags with that Ridley quote. We just had five years of examinations of how T'Challa felt about being King... and what does he want to explore?

    "If heavy is the head that wears the crown, what makes T’Challa’s head heavy?”

    Here we go again...

  5. #12245
    Astonishing Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi654 View Post
    Since Wakanda Forever is opening a week after the Flash, do you think its box office numbers will be affected in any way?
    I may go see Flash twice just as an * you to Kevin Feigie and Coogler.

  6. #12246
    Astonishing Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi654 View Post
    Since Wakanda Forever is opening a week after the Flash, do you think its box office numbers will be affected in any way?
    Yeah one of the big reasons why the first was such a big BO hit was because it had little to no competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    What will affect it is no T'Challa.
    Plus the Flash is bringing back Michael Keaton Batman meanwhile BP 2 is going to push Shuri and Okoye?

  7. #12247
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    The problem isn't deconstruction, anyway.

    Not really.

    The problem is that few writers seem interested in reconstruction.
    The obvious question to ask after a writer has written a run all about how much the titular character sucks is “well… why am I paying you to read about this loser then?” which usually results in dropping the book. You can pick at the IP but unless you intend to retire the IP you shouldn’t bite the hand that feeds you. Ridley’s deconstruction over at DC hasn’t been as boring as Coates however, and Jace, while plagued by regret, isn’t incompetent and can handle his business.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    I may go see Flash twice just as an * you to Kevin Feigie and Coogler.
    Might see it for Keaton but I’m expecting it to be crap. Wouldn’t bother, I think even a BP2 that’s a mess and has no T’Challa will beat Flash.
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  8. #12248
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    The problem isn't deconstruction, anyway.

    Not really.

    The problem is that few writers seem interested in reconstruction.

    It's all "taking them apart to see what makes them tick", without bothering to put them back together afterward.

    Which is one of the big red flags with that Ridley quote. We just had five years of examinations of how T'Challa felt about being King... and what does he want to explore?

    "If heavy is the head that wears the crown, what makes T’Challa’s head heavy?”

    Here we go again...
    the BP special... tear tear tear tear tear... magically handwave things back together so you can tear it apart again.
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  9. #12249
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    The problem isn't deconstruction, anyway.

    Not really.

    The problem is that few writers seem interested in reconstruction.

    It's all "taking them apart to see what makes them tick", without bothering to put them back together afterward.

    Which is one of the big red flags with that Ridley quote. We just had five years of examinations of how T'Challa felt about being King... and what does he want to explore?

    "If heavy is the head that wears the crown, what makes T’Challa’s head heavy?”

    Here we go again...
    Yeah NGL I didn't care for that. As you said, we literally just spent the last 6 years going through that **** and got a (wholly unsatisfied and completely useless) answer to that question. Now we should be looking at "What makes T'Challa the greatest BP who had ever loved? The GOAT of a nation of exceptional people?" What makes T'Challa THE guy, the one whom the Avengers unanimously voted was best to lead them, the guy who said Wakanda is the beacon of light for humanity, the one Odin and the Phoenix were saying was THAT guy.

    That's what I want now, that is what the character needs now, he needs to be shown to the audience WHY his movie was a cultural movement and the significance behind his character.

    Now more navel gazing, woe is me, I wish I could be on a lab like Reed cause I'm a scientist at heart.

  10. #12250
    Astonishing Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Anything Panther related come out today? He is in the cover of Phoenix song :Echo
    Last edited by Ekie; 10-20-2021 at 07:43 AM.

  11. #12251
    Astonishing Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    I keep waiting for someone to ask a followup (tough question) and they never seem to do it.
    “We’re shooting in Atlanta and it’s going really well. Ryan Coogler’s back and he’s fantastic and the crew is back and we know we have big shoes to fill and we just want a film that, hopefully, people can respond to and be entertained by and get some catharsis by spending time with. That’s a tall order, but we want to be up to the challenge. Yeah, in their own ways, in sort of personal and private ways. But the truth is the biggest honor is to maintain that story of Wakanda. Chad knew, I think before any of us, how important it could be for people. So it’s our job to keep that spirit alive so that kids can continue to find that world and find themselves in that world.”
    https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1450273868157894661
    Why has no one asked whether Chad would think sidelining the character is a good move or not? Why pivot to make to make it "about Wakanda"

    Also in the full vid he says at the end its about getting it right (when talking about the release date) so it seems they know (as others here have said) that were rushing it out like crazy.

  12. #12252
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    Anything Panther related come out today? He is in the cover of Phoenix song :Echo
    There are only like 5 comics out today lol
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  13. #12253
    Astonishing Member Klaue's Mixtape's Avatar
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    I like Nate Moore, but

    1. He looks a tad stressed when discussing BP2.
    2. How can someone so against T'Challa being killed in Infinity War be the same guy saying its about Wakanada. Thats...odd.
    3. The more I think about it the worst it sounds. Just say you're trying to make the best film. Stop following Feige's cues of its about Wakanda. Are you honoring Chad or are you more concerned about whats happening in your phase?

  14. #12254
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    The problem isn't deconstruction, anyway.

    Not really.

    The problem is that few writers seem interested in reconstruction.

    It's all "taking them apart to see what makes them tick", without bothering to put them back together afterward.

    Which is one of the big red flags with that Ridley quote. We just had five years of examinations of how T'Challa felt about being King... and what does he want to explore?

    "If heavy is the head that wears the crown, what makes T’Challa’s head heavy?”

    Here we go again...
    It seems that we can't ever have a comic that is just straight up action. Every writer wants to be a psychiatrist and explore the whys of being a superhero instead of what superheroes should be doing.

    Spidey said it best, with great power comes great responsibility. Just leave it at that and go kick some ass.

  15. #12255
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Yeah NGL I didn't care for that. As you said, we literally just spent the last 6 years going through that **** and got a (wholly unsatisfied and completely useless) answer to that question. Now we should be looking at "What makes T'Challa the greatest BP who had ever loved? The GOAT of a nation of exceptional people?" What makes T'Challa THE guy, the one whom the Avengers unanimously voted was best to lead them, the guy who said Wakanda is the beacon of light for humanity, the one Odin and the Phoenix were saying was THAT guy.

    That's what I want now, that is what the character needs now, he needs to be shown to the audience WHY his movie was a cultural movement and the significance behind his character.

    Now more navel gazing, woe is me, I wish I could be on a lab like Reed cause I'm a scientist at heart.
    It's like Batman syndrome. Every writer wants to get into his head on some kind of psycho-analytic trip. Okay, dudes a psychopath who likes violence. There, it's over, now go kick some ass Bruce.

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